Many lads have stock out?

Albert Johnson · 19-03-2019 8:26pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Yeah, look we often did dafter things... she was worth a gamble if she had a good calf.....as it turned out she had a middling yoke... thems the breaks.... good young cows were going €1500 to €1700 the same day.

I agree that the calf quality can make or break the whole endeavour, will you chance bulling her again? I often thought that a lot of those in-between type springers are probably caught by a weanling or other bull unknown and that's what causes such variations in calf quality. It's all a gamble with those sort of stock. A man locally who would be a real glutton for punishment regarding bad springers and the like summed it up for me one night at the mart. He said that his wife reckoned that "if he went to a mart 7 nights a week that he'd come home with some dodge from every one of them", it's a disease imo and the only cure is terminal.

Bass Reeves · 19-03-2019 8:32pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

€1,080 in Ballinasloe aprox 4 weeks ago... 7 y/o in calf to a great Charolais bull.... every day is a school day.... heifer calf.....

For an incalf 7 year old WH cow it was enough. I saw nice blackwhite heifers only making 800 in Castleisland two weeks ago. However it was the lads around the ring buying them.. But you would want to be buying them for taht. They were incalf to LM and AA bulls.

The way I look at that cow you bought taking the risk factor of something hapening to her or to the calf and having a heifer as opposed to a bull the risk factor give the calf an average value of 450-500 euro next Autumn. That means you to break even next autumn she has to be worth 7-800 euro. IMO she had to be bought for sub 800 euro to leave a margin

Albert Johnson · 19-03-2019 9:56pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

For an incalf 7 year old WH cow it was enough. I saw nice blackwhite heifers only making 800 in Castleisland two weeks ago. However it was the lads around the ring buying them.. But you would want to be buying them for taht. They were incalf to LM and AA bulls.

The way I look at that cow you bought taking the risk factor of something hapening to her or to the calf and having a heifer as opposed to a bull the risk factor give the calf an average value of 450-500 euro next Autumn. That means you to break even next autumn she has to be worth 7-800 euro. IMO she had to be bought for sub 800 euro to leave a margin

As usual Bass you've put a financial handle on the situation and it definitely is cause for thought. I have however a few points I'd like to add regarding the above advice. A black white head heifer is going to usually produce a black or mousey colored calf particularly off a LM bull, if carrying the weanling through to finish then this will make little difference. However if you're intending to sell as a weanling or store such a colouring will usually mean €100-€150 less come sale time over a similar quality red LM beast. A red white head cow will usually produce brighter coloured offspring and often contain more suckler breeding than there darker dairy bred comrades.

Heifers such as the black white heads mentioned above are often smaller, wiry dairy bred types and will be of little value as culls in the backend if they fail to be retained for further breeding. The above red white head cow seems to be a bigger frame and should therefore be worth more to cull in the backend. I didn't see the heifers in question in Castleisland but assume they would have originated from the milking cows opposed to sucklers.

If we take the red white head cow @ €1080 and target a sale date of 15/11/19 for both her weanling heifer and herself as a cull there is approximately 241 days from now till then. We'll round this to 260 days since date of purchase, a cost of €1.50 a day for the team means a cost of €390 until sale. The team is therefore costing €1470 by sale day, if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 40kg birth weight so 210kg at sale @ €2.40 a kg means a sale price of €505. If the cow weighs 700 kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €1050. This gives a combined sale price of €1555 minus costs of €1470 leaving €85 of a margin

Taking the black white head heifer @ €800 and the same target sale date and costs of €390 this team is costing €1190 at sale day. Again if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 30kg birth weight so 200kg at sale @ €2.20 a kg means a sale price of €440. If the cow heifer weighs 550kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €825. This gives a combined sale price of €1265 minus costs of €1190 leaving €75 of a margin.

The above are very rough costings and exclude commission, haulage, dosing, mortality etc which will be relevant to both scenarios. I feel that overall the figures are representative of typical returns and are realistic. It's gone a bit long winded but sums up the small margins involved in both systems.

Bass Reeves · 20-03-2019 12:52am

Albert Johnson wrote: »

As usual Bass you've put a financial handle on the situation and it definitely is cause for thought. I have however a few points I'd like to add regarding the above advice. A black white head heifer is going to usually produce a black or mousey colored calf particularly off a LM bull, if carrying the weanling through to finish then this will make little difference. However if you're intending to sell as a weanling or store such a colouring will usually mean €100-€150 less come sale time over a similar quality red LM beast. A red white head cow will usually produce brighter coloured offspring and often contain more suckler breeding than there darker dairy bred comrades.

Heifers such as the black white heads mentioned above are often smaller, wiry dairy bred types and will be of little value as culls in the backend if they fail to be retained for further breeding. The above red white head cow seems to be a bigger frame and should therefore be worth more to cull in the backend. I didn't see the heifers in question in Castleisland but assume they would have originated from the milking cows opposed to sucklers.

If we take the red white head cow @ €1080 and target a sale date of 15/11/19 for both her weanling heifer and herself as a cull there is approximately 241 days from now till then. We'll round this to 260 days since date of purchase, a cost of €1.50 a day for the team means a cost of €390 until sale. The team is therefore costing €1470 by sale day, if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 40kg birth weight so 210kg at sale @ €2.40 a kg means a sale price of €505. If the cow weighs 700 kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €1050. This gives a combined sale price of €1555 minus costs of €1470 leaving €85 of a margin

Taking the black white head heifer @ €800 and the same target sale date and costs of €390 this team is costing €1190 at sale day. Again if the calf gains 0.7kg a day for the next 241 days it's 170kg + 30kg birth weight so 200kg at sale @ €2.20 a kg means a sale price of €440. If the cow heifer weighs 550kg at the same date @ €1.50 a kg means a sale price of €825. This gives a combined sale price of €1265 minus costs of €1190 leaving €75 of a margin.

The above are very rough costings and exclude commission, haulage, dosing, mortality etc which will be relevant to both scenarios. I feel that overall the figures are representative of typical returns and are realistic. It's gone a bit long winded but sums up the small margins involved in both systems.

I doubt if the red cow will weight 700 in the autumn. While she seemed a long leanish cow I expect that she would be nearer 600 than 700 kgs. I think most lads buying sucklers think every cow they buy will produce a live bull calf. Most fail to allow for heifer or a dead calf or a dead cow.

IMO if you were buying them your best bet( and i imagine most lads arounfd the ring do it) is to take the calf away at 6-8 weeks and sell it in the mart at that stage. Then fatten the cow. The calves often make 400+ at that age and you leave the cow off to grass and fatten before winter.

Albert Johnson · 20-03-2019 1:16am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I doubt if the red cow will weight 700 in the autumn. While she seemed a long leanish cow I expect that she would be nearer 600 than 700 kgs. I think most lads buying sucklers think every cow they buy will produce a live bull calf. Most fail to allow for heifer or a dead calf or a dead cow.

IMO if you were buying them your best bet( and i imagine most lads arounfd the ring do it) is to take the calf away at 6-8 weeks and sell it in the mart at that stage. Then fatten the cow. The calves often make 400+ at that age and you leave the cow off to grass and fatten before winter.

Perhaps I was a bit optimistic with 700kg but I believe she'll weight the most of it come the backend. It doesn't take much of a cow to weight 600kg, if there coming off a good place and the weather is reasonable I find cows that age usually weight like lead coming into the winter.

There's lots of lads splitting teams like that, as you stated everything is gone off grass with little meal. It's the same with a lot of those average springers, calve them down and flog the calf inside a few weeks before beefing the cow. I often thought lads on marginal ground were better off at something similar, the cows would be easier got back incalf if dried off at that time and would be easier ran over the backend and into the winter. An average calf would often make nearly as much as a runner compared to keeping through until the traditional weanling sales.

If I had access to a run of rough grazing for the cows over winter it's a system I'd definitely consider. Calve the cows down in May with the grass and sell the calves in August. The cows could be bulled again and throw out on the grazing for the winter making use of there built up fat reserves before calving and the accompanying spring grass.

jimmy G M · 21-03-2019 8:27pm

Serious analysis there Albert and Bass.... dunno what the outcome will be, but if calf does not grow into 300kg and €700 by October then Christmas will be bleakðŸ˜. Might sell the two on the mart in next 3 weeks either....

Anyway back on topic.... 20 weanlings back out this afternoon. A bit of rain tomorrow morning but then looking pretty good out to 10 days so I reckon on turning the majority apart from cows yet to calf out over the weekend...

Dickie10 · 21-03-2019 11:41pm

was down the fields today first time in 3 weeks since i spread urea unreal how it drove grass , ill chance putting 10 heifers out saturday, see how quick there going through it before snakin out a few more

Dozer1 · 23-03-2019 9:01pm

Put out most of the stock today smashing day hope theye don't see inside again. Lots of grass around

Muckit · 23-03-2019 9:06pm

Chanced a few light heifers out today. Tis great the running blind and the tearing through fences as if they not there, real sign of spring!!

It will be a fortnight at least before rest go out.

CHOPS01 · 24-03-2019 7:42pm

Have 11 Hex bullocks 2yr olds heading out to grass in the next 10 days or so aiming to kill in July/Aug. They have been on good silage and a bag of 16% nut since Dec 12th. Someone mentioned last year think it might have been Bass about taking stock off ration before turn out to have cattle take maximum yield from grass straight away. Is this the right thing to do ?

MIKEKC · 24-03-2019 7:54pm

All stock out today. Full shed yesterday, empty today. Hope it stays that way

Bass Reeves · 24-03-2019 8:21pm

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Have 11 Hex bullocks 2yr olds heading out to grass in the next 10 days or so aiming to kill in July/Aug. They have been on good silage and a bag of 16% nut since Dec 12th. Someone mentioned last year think it might have been Bass about taking stock off ration before turn out to have cattle take maximum yield from grass straight away. Is this the right thing to do ?

Yes it is called compensatory growth. You should take them off nuts 6-8 weeks before turn out. In fact I have given up giving stores nuts/ration over the winter. Silage is cut late may?early June. I am of the opinion that there is no point in giving Larry beef that you are only breaking even producing. However I always make sure they have adequate minerals. As well i cool cattle down for 2-3 days before letting out of shed. I reduce amount of silage they get. To do this all calle have to get access to the silage at the same time.

CloughCasey1 · 24-03-2019 11:17pm

Let out 14 2yr olds yesterday. I've another bunch grazing since start of Feb. Some gain on those lads and no damage done to ground and have been able to grass harrow all bar 2 acres after them. Have nearly half the farm grazed now. Have 2 bays of lighter 2yr olds left to go out but will be another few weeks in yet. Growth would really need to kick in to allow time for re-growth if they were all given freedom.

Cavanjack · 25-03-2019 12:41am

I see mt cranium on the weather forum is warning that there is a chance of snow the first weekend in April. It would put a lad off letting too many out .

emaherx · 25-03-2019 8:01am

Cavanjack wrote: »

I see mt cranium on the weather forum is warning that there is a chance of snow the first weekend in April. It would put a lad off letting too many out .

A chance, nothing written in stone. Dosen't mention heavy snow or dry snow. In this country you'd do nothing if you depended on long range forecasts.

Lads low on fodder looking a dry green fields should have let them out already. Easy to bring some in if weather turns bad.

Cavanjack · 25-03-2019 9:21am

emaherx wrote: »

A chance, nothing written in stone. Dosen't mention heavy snow or dry snow. In this country you'd do nothing if you depended on long range forecasts.

Lads low on fodder looking a dry green fields should have let them out already. Easy to bring some in if weather turns bad.

Will have half the stock out here by this evening. A lot of land away from the yard. Not so easy bring them back in here. Grass is growing across the ditches.

emaherx · 25-03-2019 9:57am

Cavanjack wrote: »

Will have half the stock out here by this evening. A lot of land away from the yard. Not so easy bring them back in here. Grass is growing across the ditches.

Not much different here, grazed home farm in February and sent all cattle except a few springers to the out farms over the weekend. They won't be coming back unless it gets real bad but if I need to trailer them back I will.

Muckit · 25-03-2019 10:47am

emaherx wrote: »

They won't be coming back unless it gets real bad but if I need to trailer them back I will.

You phrased that as if you'd have a choice in it

johnnyw20 · 25-03-2019 11:37am

Have some of mine out now

emaherx · 25-03-2019 12:01pm

Muckit wrote: »

You phrased that as if you'd have a choice in it

There's always choices.

But need a more definite forecast before I'd decide anything. Every day they're out saves the bit of fodder I've left. In the event of a cold snap they can be brought back in or even fed out if it's just some frosty weather.

endainoz · 25-03-2019 12:13pm

emaherx wrote:

But need a more definite forecast before I'd decide anything. Every day they're out saves the bit of fodder I've left. In the event of a cold snap they can be brought back in or even fed out if it's just some frosty weather.

I'd really hate to put the curse on it, but I can't see a cold snap coming in April. Are lads afraid to say winter is over? Good dry week ahead for the west anyways, ground looking good.

Say my name · 25-03-2019 12:57pm

endainoz wrote: »

I'd really hate to put the curse on it, but I can't see a cold snap coming in April. Are lads afraid to say winter is over? Good dry week ahead for the west anyways, ground looking good.

I provisionally agree. The date to watch is the 3rd and 4th.
But even then if a mini cold snap does come it'll be a short run affair. And even still other weather models don't give it at all with the Americans giving a continuation of high pressure into the forecasting future.
It barely warrants mention at this stage bar to give the snow lovers a bit of candy floss.

I'd be more concerned about having fodder in stock and closed up and not over stocked for another potential drought than a one or two day affair cold snap.

emaherx · 25-03-2019 12:58pm

endainoz wrote: »

I'd really hate to put the curse on it, but I can't see a cold snap coming in April. Are lads afraid to say winter is over? Good dry week ahead for the west anyways, ground looking good.

There was some vague mention of a possibility of snow in early April in the weather form. All I was saying is until I see something concrete I'm assuming it's spring, but if needed the sheds will still be there.

To be fair I had cattle out on St Patrick's day and it snowed briefly but it wasn't exactly an issue.

Muckit · 25-03-2019 1:05pm

The calendar is with us now

Mortelaro · 25-03-2019 5:49pm

It could turn harsh at anytime of the year
That's often happened and theres no knowing how long or short or at all
Just look at your situation any other year and do if you can what you'd usually do and you won't go too far wrong
I've no problem putting cattle back in if it was necessary but that's a hypothetical
I think its madness not to have them out in fair weather when theres oceans of grass

Muckit · 25-03-2019 7:12pm

Mortelaro wrote: »

I think its madness not to have them out in fair weather when theres oceans of grass

You could have good weather and bad ground conditions. Be madness to let them walk it into the ground too and f**k it up for the rest of the year.

CloughCasey1 · 25-03-2019 7:13pm

Muckit wrote: »

The calendar is with us now

Most up-to-date technology for ya. Better than any calendar ☺

I says · 25-03-2019 7:15pm

Muckit wrote: »

You could have good weather and bad ground conditions. Be madness to let them walk it into the ground too and f**k it up for the rest of the year.

After letting fly with urea this morning while the cattle were grazing.The next time they’ll see a tractor is going with the topper in July.
Am understocked as far as a fear of drought like last year and what’s happening across the water.

Base price · 27-03-2019 1:18pm

Woohoo, all cattle out (except for baby calves) as of yesterday. It's the first time the sheds have been empty since the drought last year and the diet feeder is also getting a rest.

feartuath · 27-03-2019 4:55pm

Everything out since yesterday.
Cows and calves.
Bull out all winter made some noise and digging when he saw them.

15 weanling heifers in and out since mid February.
Weanlings bulls the same.

Many lads have stock out?

Comments