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Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

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    #62
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,362 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    bruschi wrote: »
    My own fault for clicking into the thread.

    But the lack of empathy to the parents who actively wanted a child and have lost it due to medical negligence, the "told you so" comments about how this was to be expected to happen. That the parents have no right to complain about this.

    Its actually disgusting some of the comments on here. They show a real sense of being glad to see this happened so they can get on their moral high horse again, regardless of facts that the 8th would have made little or no difference here. Point scoring over a couple having an abortion on what was actually a healthy baby.

    Meanwhile a couple are grieving over a lost pregnancy they clearly wanted.

    The master of the Rotunda was on th raido this morning its unlikely to be medical negligence no test is perfect there is alway a small marging of error that is why they do more than one test they can do up to 3 tests yet it still will not be a certainty Yeah some of the comment here are really odd.

    It is a bit worring that people do not seem to understand this.


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    #63
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The master of the Rotunda was on th raido this morning its unlikely to be medical negligence no test is perfect there is alway a small marging of error that is why they do more than one test they can do up to 3 tests yet it still will not be a certititanty. Yeah some of the comment here are really odd.

    It is a bit worring that people do not seem to understand this.
    Very "worring"


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    #64
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,400 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    take everything wrote: »
    Why do you say the eighth would have made no difference here.

    They would have got the same diagnosis, they would have still decided on abortion, they would have had to travel to the UK for it. The end result would have still been the same.


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    #65
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Wow pro life people seem really happy about the death of a foetus. That's not very Christian.


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    #66
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,615 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The master of the Rotunda was on th raido this morning its unlikely to be medical negligence no test is perfect there is alway a small marging of error that is why they do more than one test they can do up to 3 tests yet it still will not be a certititanty. Yeah some of the comment here are really odd.

    It is a bit worring that people do not seem to understand this.

    Not often ive agreed with you in the past on range of issues , but this is 100% accurate.

    There is no such thing as a foolproof test.

    The courts are making an absolute balls of the Cancer Issues presently. And this case here may be similar.

    People can only act on the information at hand. And it has to be accepted by everyone that medical tests give best known results, but in the world of genetics and medicines there is no 100%.

    If we cant accept those facts then the whole system just collapses.


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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The master of the Rotunda was on th raido this morning its unlikely to be medical negligence no test is perfect there is alway a small marging of error that is why they do more than one test they can do up to 3 tests yet it still will not be a certititanty. Yeah some of the comment here are really odd.

    It is a bit worring that people do not seem to understand this.
    In fairness, what's more "worrying" is a doctor being asked for legal advice on national radio.

    The same thing happened recently with TV and radio doctors completely misunderstanding that the "absolute confidence" test for screening is not referring to scientific absolute confidence. As you'd expect, it's a legal measurement.

    I don't think anybody thinks this isn't going to end up before the courts, nor should anyone be surprised by the comments of the Master of the Rotunda.


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    #68
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,510 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    RIP to the little baby and my thoughts are with the parents. Hopefully they can recover from this tragedy.


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    #69
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,362 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    In fairness, what's more "worrying" is a doctor being asked for legal advice on national radio.

    The same thing happened recently with TV and radio doctors completely misunderstanding that the "absolute confidence" test for screening is not referring to scientific absolute confidence. As you'd expect, it's a legal measurement.

    I don't think anybody doubts this isn't going to end up before the courts, nor should anyone be surprised by the comments of the Master of the Rotunda.

    He was not asked for a legal opnion.


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    #70
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    LorelaiG wrote: »
    Considering that there is no time restriction for time on a termination for FFA they (whoever 'they' are... the doctors, the parents) they really jumped the gun by not waiting on diagnostic test results to come back rather than relying on screening tests.

    I get the quicker is better mentality, but only, like you say, if the certainty isn't compromised.

    It would be nice if people didn't jump on the **** the parents bandwagon.


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    #71
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    if we expect 100% successful medical diagnoses on pain of legal action we are quickly going to have no health service.


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    #72
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,625 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Sad case, of course they'll now be multi millionaires and hopefully use that wealth to bring attention to this case and in doing so save others from the same faith of losing a perfectly healthy child.


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    #73
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Wow pro life people seem really happy about the death of a foetus. That's not very Christian.

    This has been said a few times now and I strongly object to it. It's the very same as saying pro repeal people were absolutely delighted by Savita 's death as a means of giving weight to their cause. Both of these cases, on opposite ends of the spectrum, are dreadful and no one, but no one takes delight in either case.


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    #74
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Ricosruffneck wrote: »
    I support abortion.

    But i'm curious, in this instance if the 8th hadn't been changed would the baby have been aborted (in Ireland)?

    What are the facts? without getting emotive over what has happened here please.

    You mean would it have been covered by POLDPA? I’m not sure, anyone know?


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    #75
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Sad case, of course they'll now be multi millionaires and hopefully use that wealth to bring attention to this case and in doing so save others from the same faith of losing a perfectly healthy child.

    multi millionaires? How is that going to happen?


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    #76
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Jaster Rogue wrote: »
    The 8th amendment would have given a legal right to life to this poor defenceless innocent human life, and prevented his or her killing. Sad but true. All the right on lefty liberal 'woke' brigade : are you proud now?

    theres rules against putting into a reply about what I really think about people like you, I'd hate to be banned because of what I should say but wont


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    #77
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    Its not a baby, it's a foetus, what does it matter?


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    #78
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,362 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Very warey of the legal profession in Ireland not saying they all have issues far from.

    However.

    I looked up something about the cervical smear test, all of sudden I started gettin 'adverst' on my facebook from solicitors practices with helpfull 'information' on uderstanding bowel screaing and cervical screaming.


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    #79
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    This has been said a few times now and I strongly object to it. It's the very same as saying pro repeal people were absolutely delighted by Savita 's death as a means of giving weight to their cause. Both of these cases, on opposite ends of the spectrum, are dreadful and no one, but no one takes delight in either case.


    One of the first comments was this is the case we have been waiting for. So sounds like delight to me.


    I agree with you on Savita though, I thought some of it was in very bad taste.


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    #80
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    mariaalice wrote: »
    No medical test is definitive, its the quest for and the belief in certainty that is the heart of the problem.

    Every risk in life can not be eliminated but somehow we are evolving a society when we think we can take the risk out of everything.

    True but we should endeavour to minimise risk as much as we can. That’s a never-ending and noble goal.


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    #81
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Jaster Rogue wrote: »
    The 8th amendment would have given a legal right to life to this poor defenceless innocent human life, and prevented his or her killing. Sad but true. All the right on lefty liberal 'woke' brigade : are you proud now?

    Very proud. Thanks.

    The decision made by this family is none of my or your business. That’s what over 60% of people in Ireland voted for.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #82
    LorelaiG
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭LorelaiG


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    You mean would it have been covered by POLDPA? I’m not sure, anyone know?

    No, it wouldn't have. POLDPA was only if the threat was to the life of the mother while the foetus still had a heartbeat.


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    #83
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Jaster Rogue wrote: »
    People are making out here that a little collateral damage is grand. This is an innocent defenceless human being we're talking about. 1 mistake is too many.

    I’ve got terminal cancer because a careless doctor hand-waved me away. That doctor is still practicing. There will always be human casualties of human error in medicine. Happens all the time unfortunately.


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    #84
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    We should match on the dail and demand another referendum before it's too late


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    #85
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,400 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    We should match on the dail and demand another referendum before it's too late

    :rolleyes:

    Off you go.


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    #86
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    We should match on the dail and demand another referendum before it's too late

    As is your right, but I very much doubt politicians would be willing to touch this issue considering the landslide result.

    There was more than 35 years between the referenda installing and removing the 8th, so I think you're in for a long battle.


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    #87
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭fits


    This is awfully sad. I’m a carrier with 50% risk of passing on a serious chromosomal abnormality to a foetus so I have looked into this a bit. No one would go for a cvs test without good reason so I would guess that the abnormality showed up in a harmony test and was confirmed in the cvs. This was due to the mosaicism so it is really unfortunate but not really anyone’s fault. The probability of that happening must be absolutely tiny. Heartbreaking for the couple concerned though. My thoughts go out to them.


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    #88
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    We should match on the dail and demand another referendum before it's too late

    2/10 must try harder.


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    #89
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    multi millionaires? How is that going to happen?

    If the couple in question decide to take legal action.


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    #90
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    We should match on the dail and demand another referendum before it's too late

    Off you go so? Or maybe you won't bother?


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    #91
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,362 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Berserker wrote: »
    If the couple in question decide to take legal action.

    They are they had their solicitors on the one o clock news.


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