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Public servants' inability to afford to pay rent in Dublin.

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Comments

  • #152
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    limnam wrote: »
    For someone starting in their first job yes it's fine.

    not if they aren't paid enough to afford the cost it's not. or if they end up sharing with a bad room-mate and have no where to escape from them.
    limnam wrote: »
    I showed you clearly you could find a share for 280e

    you did but it's not a regular occurrence that a room at such a price will come up, especially depending on where one is living/working.
    limnam wrote: »
    *shrug*


    As I said. I'd hate to see the current lot in a _real_ crisis.

    you are seeing them in a real crisis currently. you may believe it isn't a crisis and that's okay but it doesn't mean you are right, i'm afraid.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • #153
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Sharing with a couple. And a baby. :D I thought it was pretty terrible example actually that only strengthened my point. And I’m not sure how you’re having difficulty with the idea that any room that cheap will be inundated because it’s rare.


    Oh.


    I didn't realise they had the luxury of been so picky.


    Desperate times indeed.


    No mexicans, no kids, must have no transport or commute costs.


    I see why people find it so hard now....


    Lets pray the good times last a bit longer eh..


  • #154
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Where are all these public servants living now?


  • #155
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Personally, I don't give a **** about anyone's pay and conditions until I'm asked to fund it.

    The money that the Government used to pay the eye-wateringly generous pay and pensions of the public servants is money that can't be used to fund much needed investment in schools, hospitals, roads, etc,

    It is absolutely the business of every tax-payer in this country to question the value we are getting from public servants. They are over-paid, over-protected and constantly jostling to take a bigger share of the available resources available.

    by what metric are they over-paid and how are they protected?
    limnam wrote: »
    Teachers: "We want fair pay"


    Will you take a pay cut to make it fair?


    Teachers: "will we fck"

    good on them. they are dead right. give those on less pay a pay rise.
    limnam wrote: »
    It looks like you were not searching very well, as you missed a perfectly good room for 280e.



    It means simply if people can't find a way to survive on 1300e a month. I wouldn't like to see them when the country is in a "real" crisis.


    Remember this is on the assumption that someone is starting off in a new job in the public sector above minimum wage which was the example provided and they can't "afford" to live in Dublin.


    It's rubbish.

    if it is rubbish, then there would be nothing to discuss. there is, a problem and we are discussing it, so clearly it's not rubbish, but actually a real problem. you can of course deny it as is your right but it won't make it go away.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • #156
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Lol at this thread


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  • #157
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    limnam wrote: »
    Oh.


    I didn't realise they had the luxury of been so picky.


    Desperate times indeed.


    No mexicans, no kids, must have no transport or commute costs.


    I see why people find it so hard now....


    Lets pray the good times last a bit longer eh..

    Is there a person more tedious than the anti-PS-no-matter-what individual? No nuance at all.

    What do you do when you encounter a public sector worker?


  • #158
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    end of the road wrote: »
    not if they aren't paid enough to afford the cost it's not. or if they end up sharing with a bad room-mate and have no where to escape from them.


    If they're starting of on the bottom of the ring in the PS. They can afford a room share in Dublin.




    end of the road wrote: »
    you did but it's not a regular occurrence that a room at such a price will come up, especially depending on where one is living/working.


    Yeah just showed up today for me conveniently...There's no way another one will show up again..



    end of the road wrote: »
    you are seeing them in a real crisis currently. you may believe it isn't a crisis and that's okay but it doesn't mean you are right, i'm afraid.


    The example provided is not a crisis.


    A family with two parents in the private sector who both lost their jobs which led to losing their home etc.


    That's a crisis.


    No one in the public sector would know anything about it as none of them lost their job


  • #159
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    What bollox,

    Sure pay every nurse and teacher a salary of €1,000,000 each and we'd have the best health and system system in the world would we?

    Teachers pay and pensions is hoovering up the money we have available to invest in education.

    The OECD average for teachers pay as a % of education spending is around 60%. Its a peoples based resource whether you like it or not. Populist slash & burn solutions like yours aren't a real world solution. Pay peanuts etc......


  • #160
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    end of the road wrote: »
    good on them. they are dead right. give those on less pay a pay rise.


    So they don't really want fair pay as they're not willing to make any sacrifices to get there. they only want fair pay if it has no impact on them.


  • #161
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    limnam wrote: »
    If they're starting of on the bottom of the ring in the PS. They can afford a room share in Dublin.

    no, that is absolutely not guaranteed to be the case.
    limnam wrote: »
    Yeah just showed up today for me conveniently...There's no way another one will show up again..

    i'm sure there will, but that doesn't change the reality that it is not a very regular thing.
    limnam wrote: »
    The example provided is not a crisis.

    clearly it is, as it seems to be a regular issue.
    limnam wrote: »
    A family with two parents in the private sector who both lost their jobs which led to losing their home etc.
    That's a crisis.

    it's also a crisis. it's not the only one however.
    limnam wrote: »
    No one in the public sector would know anything about it as none of them lost their job

    what would they not know anything about? losing a home? do you think only people in the private sector lost their homes? how do you know no-one in the public sector would "know anything about it"

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



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  • #162
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Lol at this thread

    indeed, 2010 all over again

    same auld material


  • #163
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, that is absolutely not guaranteed to be the case.


    Sure it is.






    end of the road wrote: »
    what would they not know anything about? losing a home? do you think only people in the private sector lost their homes? how do you know no-one in the public sector would "know anything about it"


    No public sector worker has lost their home due to losing their public sector job. So they wouldn't know anything about losing thier job in the PS as no there was no one made redundant from the PS during the "cut backs"


    Is this really such a hard concept to understand?


  • #164
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    end of the road wrote: »
    by what metric are they over-paid and how are they protected?

    EOTR, why do you make a point of denying the most obvious facts?

    I'm sure you're aware that a study by Davy Stockbrokers last year found that public-sector workers in Ireland get paid 40 percent more on average than their private-sector counterparts. This is one of the highest public/private pay gaps in Europe. Furthermore, the study estimated that only half of this pay gap can be attributed to differences in education, experience, and qualifications.

    And still, you'll persist in denying that PS workers are overpaid.

    As for protections ... PS workers in the main enjoy jobs for life. They are highly insulated and protected by powerful unions. Very difficult to deny.


  • #165
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    limnam wrote: »
    No public sector worker has lost their home due to losing their public sector job. So they wouldn't know anything about losing thier job in the PS as no there was no one made redundant from the PS during the "cut backs"


    Is this really such a hard concept to understand?

    well, apart from the fact that very few people had home repossessed due to losing their job in recent years...

    you don't think there were families with one public worker who got significant pay cuts and one private who lost job and subsequently struggled with mortgage?

    You don't think that a family with 2 public sector workers getting significant cuts couldn't pay their mortgage?


    your false reality about PS is simply blinding you to the realities


  • #166
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Myah Flaky Tablecloth wrote: »
    I'm sure you're aware that a study by Davy Stockbrokers last year found that public-sector workers in Ireland get paid 40 percent more on average than their private-sector counterparts.

    these kind of claims about "average" workers have been doing the rounds for the last decade

    what is the private sector counterpart for a guard...or a teacher

    does a PS Doctor make more than a private Doctor?

    all these reports are based on an "average wage" in a particular sector. They mean little to individual workers

    there are private and public workers on very little

    there are private and public workers on significant amounts


  • #167
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    In short the solution to the housing crisis isn't increasing the wages of public sector workers, thereby inflating the market further. The solution is to build affordable homes on a massive scale like the bankrupt Irish Freestate did in the 1930s when it built Marino, Cabra and Crumlin. The state has the resources to do this but chooses not to. Ideology is driving the continuation of the housing crisis, the current government wants Goldman Sachs et all to set housing policy.


  • #168
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well, apart from the fact that very few people had home repossessed due to losing their job in recent years...

    you don't think there were families with one public worker who got significant pay cuts and one private who lost job and subsequently struggled with mortgage?

    You don't think that a family with 2 public sector workers getting significant cuts couldn't pay their mortgage?


    your false reality about PS is simply blinding you to the realities


    Struggled? Sure.


    That will happen in any situation where you over extend. Public service or not.


  • #169
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Riskymove wrote: »
    what is the private sector counterpart for a guard...or a teacher


    They seemed to work it out when they wanted to benchmark.


  • #170
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Riskymove wrote: »
    these kind of claims about "average" workers have been doing the rounds for the last decade

    what is the private sector counterpart for a guard...or a teacher

    does a PS Doctor make more than a private Doctor?

    all these reports are based on an "average wage" in a particular sector. They mean little to individual workers

    there are private and public workers on very little

    there are private and public workers on significant amounts

    Are you claiming that it's impossible to compute the public/private pay gap?

    Believe it or not, economists have actually done this.


  • #171
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,410 ✭✭✭political analyst


    If paying public-sector workers who live in the cities extra is OK in Britain then why is it not OK in our country?


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  • #172
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    political analyst wrote: »
    If paying public-sector workers who live in the cities extra is OK in Britain then why is it not OK in our country?


    Can we start teachers on 22ke like they do in Britain?


  • #173
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,955 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    political analyst wrote: »
    Due to the high rents in Dublin and other cities, why doesn't the government pay special allowances so that public-sector workers can afford to live in those place in order to fill vacancies for especially important jobs in those areas?
    Because that would only serves to increase house prices even further away from fundamentals. It's been tried in the UK ("Help to Buy"), as you said, but it's backfired badly. When you pour money in to any free market - regardless of where that money comes from - the result is inflation in that market. It all comes back to the ratio of income to house prices, which such measures would not solve at all.

    Then there's the question of why public servants should be singled out for special treatment. All low-paid workers are in the same position, whether in the private or the public sector.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



  • #174
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    mammajamma wrote: »
    280 a month! I know people paying 850 a month for a bog standard room in a bog standard house in rathmines. Maybe she can walk from kildare every day as a commute. Or does car ownership come with an equal reduction in your world?

    Yeah, she should share a bed with someone for the next decade and be happy about it. That's life now.

    She will survive it the same way we did in the 80s on civil service entry level wages. Rent a 3 bedroom house between five friends/coworkers. Two girls to each of the large bedroom, 1 in the small one. Girl with her own room pays a bit more. Split bills, all chip into a fund for household necessities like loo paper, cleaning materials, milk, bread, butter, etc.

    It was never easy starting out, apart from the blip of the celtic tiger, which so many on boards seem to think was the norm.


  • #175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    limnam wrote: »
    They seemed to work it out when they wanted to benchmark.

    The best thing about all 304,472 public servants in this state is that they all pay 60% tax on everything they're paid above €34,550. What losers. And the morons can't evade tax like the average tradesman/business person/After Hours poster in Ireland who keep this economy going. PAYE losers. Next time all 300,000 of them are sitting on their arses playing Pacman, let them reflect on who the real winners are. Smug bastards.

    Yeah, I think that about covers it.


  • #176
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    For all the midget brains who fight over the crumbs/fail to see the big picture:

    Wealth inequality is soaring – here are the 10 reasons why it’s happening

    Richest people work system to pay less tax than those on average wages

    Ireland in top six for helping companies avoid taxes according to Oxfam report: Ireland has been ranked sixth in a new Oxfam developed league table of the world’s worst corporate tax havens.

    World's richest 0.1% have boosted their wealth by as much as poorest half: Inequality report also shows UK’s 50,000 richest people have seen their share of the country’s wealth double since 1984

    Many of Ireland's wealthiest taxed at rate below average worker: C&AG report shows huge variation in tax paid by 334 high net worth individuals:
    About 90 of the wealthiest people in the country pay income tax at a lower rate than the average taxpayer, according to a new report from the Comptroller & Auditor General (C&AG).

    And 83 of these so-called high net worth individuals, or one in four of the total, declared taxable income of less than the average industrial wage, which is just over €36,500.

    The report shows many of Ireland’s very highest earners pay relatively small amounts in income tax, with many using tax credits and reliefs to cut their bills.

    The study by the C&AG, in the latest annual report, covered the Revenue’s taxation of more than 300 of the country’s richest people in 2015. Revenue defines high net worth individuals as those with more than €50 million in assets and the C&AG report shows a huge variation in the income tax paid by the 334 people who fell within this group.


  • #177
    drake70
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭drake70


    limnam wrote: »
    Can we start teachers on 22ke like they do in Britain?

    That would be €26,859 in England and Wales excluding London.

    Inner London rate £29,664 or €33,590

    Source: https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/teachers-salary-and-teaching-benefits/teacher-salaries


  • #178
    Trigger Happy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Trigger Happy


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    She will survive it the same way we did in the 80s on civil service entry level wages. Rent a 3 bedroom house between five friends/coworkers. Two girls to each of the large bedroom, 1 in the small one. Girl with her own room pays a bit more. Split bills, all chip into a fund for household necessities like loo paper, cleaning materials, milk, bread, butter, etc.

    It was never easy starting out, apart from the blip of the celtic tiger, which so many on boards seem to think was the norm.

    It feels like people expect to leave school and be able to rent on their own from their first pay packet.
    But yeah, house share was the norm for the first few years before getting settled.


  • #179
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    limnam wrote: »
    They seemed to work it out when they wanted to benchmark.

    Indeed, one of the more cynical vote-buying exercise of FF - using our money of course.

    The amount of debt this country has had to take on during the recession to keep the PS in the style they've become accustomed to, makes the banking bail-out look like the Teddy Bear's Picnic.

    It absolutely outrageous that at the first signs of economic recovery they've their hands out again trying to take more.

    They should agree to a pay-freeze for the next 15 years to show some gratitude to the private sector that kept them in employment at overly-generous rates for the last decade.


  • #180
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,410 ✭✭✭political analyst


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Indeed, one of the more cynical vote-buying exercise of FF - using our money of course.

    The amount of debt this country has had to take on during the recession to keep the PS in the style they've become accustomed to, makes the banking bail-out look like the Teddy Bear's Picnic.

    It absolutely outrageous that at the first signs of economic recovery they've their hands out again trying to take more.


    Uhhhhh... public-sector workers are taxpayers, too, you know!


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  • #181
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    drake70 wrote: »
    That would be €26,859 in England and Wales excluding London.

    Inner London rate £29,664 or €33,590

    Source: https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/teachers-salary-and-teaching-benefits/teacher-salaries


    so 6k less for Dublin starter


    and we can bring outside of Dublin down by 13k


    I'll take that.


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