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The Constitutional Right to a Home

124

Comments

  • #92
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    GLaDOS wrote: »
    What would the actual practical effects of introducing this into the constitution be?

    I saw a lot of people angry that the recent proposal was rejected, but I'm wary of introducing stuff into the constitution willy nilly.

    Compo. Loads of it.

    Large wodges of taxpayer-funded compo.


  • #93
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Constitutional right to a home with a constitutional obligation to relocate to wherever that home be ?

    God no! Must be close to the school, the shops, the airport, public transport, the job, the doctor, the bank or post office, the creche and the mammy.


  • #94
    Trigger Happy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,062 ✭✭✭Trigger Happy


    Squatter wrote: »
    God no! Must be close to the school, the shops, the airport, public transport, the job, the doctor, the bank or post office, the creche and the mammy.

    The job?!


  • #95
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Cabaal wrote: »
    People in Finland pay wayyyy more tax then Ireland.
    People in Ireland want solutions solved but are not prepared to pay for it, as such we can't copy Finland.

    Our tax burden on national average wage is approx 27%, by comparison Finland its 42%.

    That's due to the fact those earning under 25 k here pay about one tenth of what the same earners in Finland and the other nordic states pay

    Ireland is a low tax economy but only for those who earn below 25k


  • #96
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    The job?!

    A slip of the typing finger - I meant the pusher! :p


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  • #97
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    seasidedub wrote: »
    Every single country in Europe which has the things we aspire to : decent healthcare, state day care, cheap student accommodation etc, all the tenets of left/centre left politics have water charges. I've lived in 3 EU countries and always paid for water. I'm trying to point out the idiocy of the left in Ireland- they want to give people this and that, but balk at charging for it. You can't have it both ways.

    How does other EU countries having water charges make it a “basic tenet of socialism”? Which socialist EU countries are these?

    Why is it “idiotic” for the left to oppose water chargers? Would you expect the left to support a charge for an essential service where everyone was charged at the same rate, regardless of their means? And is the commodification of water not something one would expect the left to oppose?


  • #98
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    the state needs to maintain ownership of more houses and apartments
    through housing associations
    view housing as a long term investment - it will pay the pensions of today's children if the state housing was managed in a responsible way


  • #99
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Beasty wrote: »
    Maybe start offering one-way tickets to Finland to anyone who wants a right to a home?

    Iceland would be better.
    Those igloos cost nothing.


  • #100
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    the state needs to maintain ownership of more houses and apartments
    through housing associations
    view housing as a long term investment - it will pay the pensions of today's children if the state housing was managed in a responsible way


    30% of local authority tenants are in arrears, the whole area is a black hole


  • #101
    Dank Janniels
    Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭Dank Janniels


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Iceland would be better.
    Those igloos cost nothing.

    A crannog in your own private lake would actualy be savage!!


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  • #102
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users Posts: 12,348 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    FFS not another thread on this. :confused:

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • #103
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Any proposed Constitutional amendment should include for adequate trampoline provision space.

    Finally some common sense in this country!


  • #104
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i couldnt tell you but there are people calling for this to be introduced;

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/right-to-a-secure-home-must-be-added-to-constitution-say-advocates-1.3808858

    Natural evolution in human rights. oh happy day! :)


  • #105
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    65535 wrote: »
    Oddly enough it is easily forgotten that we do actually pay a sizeable amount for water already.
    Oddly enough it barely keeps the water system running, with 100 year old pipes in Dublin, etc.


  • #106
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,734 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dotsman wrote: »
    Putting it in to the constitution is another stupid idea coming from the same people who are the cause of the crisis.
    • Putting it in the constitution won't magically increase the supply of decent accommodation.
    • Putting it in the constitution won't magically improve or urban planning.

    But...
    • Putting it in the constitution would likely result in antisocial tenants getting a carte-blanch
    • Putting it in the constitution would likely result in squatters doing whatever they want.
    • Putting it in the constitution would likely result in the collapse (and, thus, further reduction in the supply) of the rental market as landlords would not be able to repossess their own properties in the event of arrears.
    • Putting it in the constitution would likely result in the complete collapse (and, thus, a further reduction) of the housing market (and obvious impact on wider economy) as banks stop lending as they would no longer be able to repossess properties in mortgage arrears.

    But these are the stated desires of the socialist/anarchist ***** who have caused this crisis and and are now making these calls.

    Ya wha?

    The socialists and the anarchists caused the housing crisis?

    Thats some paralell universe you live in....

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #107
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    How about a Constitutional duty to work for their free houses?


  • #108
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,747 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Ya wha?

    The socialists and the anarchists caused the housing crisis?

    Thats some paralell universe you live in....
    I think the point many people would make is that there is no housing crisis.
    There is an entitlement crisis!


  • #109
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Pappa Dolla wrote: »

    Because it's an asset that you can sell when you retire, and downgrade to a smaller home and have a bit of a lump sum to enjoy your retirement?

    But who will buy his gaff if they can get one for free from the State?


  • #110
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    How about a Constitutional duty to work for their free houses?

    nope. only interested in rights and entitlements not duty or responsibility.


  • #111
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Ya wha?

    The socialists and the anarchists caused the housing crisis?

    Thats some paralell universe you live in....

    Senior infants' level of comprehension there. Good luck in the Junior Cert next month - you'll need it.


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  • #112
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Ya wha?

    The socialists and the anarchists caused the housing crisis?

    Thats some paralell universe you live in....

    Despite the rhetoric of those on the left, it is not "the government" or Finn Gael etc who control the housing supply in this country. It is the councils. It is the councils who set zoning, plan urban infrastructure & grant planning permission. It is they who keep slowly tagging on inadequate offices and housing to stupid places on the outskirts of our cities. It is they who leave much of Dublin City centre (and similar with our other cities) as low-density 1, 2 & 3 story housing, most of it being given away for free as housing for welfare and low-pay working class instead of converting it to large apartment and office space. It is they who refuse to let builders use the little available land effectively and build up.

    Who are they? They are Sinn Fein & Friends. A collection of some of the most stupid, annoying and useless socialist & anarchist leaders ever. Who would rather cause international incidents in the middle east, sort out booze for their mates and attend regular meetings and protests about the government than actually start doing their jobs. And there is a very real fear that, next week, there will be an even more useless and ineffective mob in power.

    On top of this, over the past number of decades, successive left-wing policies has convinced a sizeable minority of people that they don't have to take any personal responsibility in this life. That they can simply shout and receive. That playing the victim is far better than getting back on your feet. That we should ignore the age-old saying "give a man a fish..." and instead promote inter-generational welfare dependency. The very same people who deny us adequate housing supply, are the very same people as those who promote and benefit most from the homeless industry.

    But hey, blame it on the evil "right-wing" Finn Gael/government. Because that attitude always solves problems.


  • #113
    seasidedub
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    How does other EU countries having water charges make it a “basic tenet of socialism”? Which socialist EU countries are these?

    Why is it “idiotic” for the left to oppose water chargers? Would you expect the left to support a charge for an essential service where everyone was charged at the same rate, regardless of their means? And is the commodification of water not something one would expect the left to oppose?

    Almost all other EU countries charge for water. In my 2 previous homes in 2 different countries I had water metres in the homes- one for hot (as it was pumped hot from the city) and one for cold. You pay for what you use. Seems very fair.

    Many EU countries have left/centre left governments yet they do not oppose water charges, as it is fair to pay for what you use.

    Water is a commodity. As is electricity etc, I doubt anyone would argue that electricity is not an essential service nowadays. . Are you suggesting people with lower incomes should pay less for all commodities? Groceries, cars etc?

    Your argument does not hold up.

    The middle are sick of paying for people who won't work and want everything free.


  • #114
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Any proposed Constitutional amendment should include for adequate trampoline provision space.

    There needs to be clear guidelines on the permissible distance from your ma's too.;)


  • #115
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    seasidedub wrote: »
    Almost all other EU countries charge for water. In my 2 previous homes in 2 different countries I had water metres in the homes- one for hot (as it was pumped hot from the city) and one for cold. You pay for what you use. Seems very fair.

    Many EU countries have left/centre left governments yet they do not oppose water charges, as it is fair to pay for what you use.

    Water is a commodity. As is electricity etc, I doubt anyone would argue that electricity is not an essential service nowadays. . Are you suggesting people with lower incomes should pay less for all commodities? Groceries, cars etc?

    Your argument does not hold up.

    The middle are sick of paying for people who won't work and want everything free.

    Look, you claimed water charges are “a basic tenet of socialism” and it was therefore wrong of Irish leftists to oppose them. All I’ve done is challenge this claim, and you haven’t backed it up in any way.

    Pointing out that other countries in the EU have water charges doesn’t prove they are a tenet of socialism. Just because those countries have had left wing governments which haven’t abolished water charges doesn’t prove it, (a) because not all left wingers are socialists, (b) just because a politician opposes something, doesn’t mean they will attempt to abolish it, as they might have other priorities, or they might consider it impractical for political, legal or some other reason (we heard in the debates here that EU rules would prevent Ireland abolish the charges once in place), and (c) even if there are socialist politicians in other countries who support the water charges in their country, it doesn’t follow that that is a “central tenet” of socialism, or that they would support a charging regime identical to the one introduced in Ireland.


  • #116
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    How about a Constitutional duty to work for their free houses?


    Why would they work? they're ENTITLED to a house.


  • #117
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Ya wha?

    The socialists and the anarchists caused the housing crisis?

    Thats some paralell universe you live in....

    Current reactionary populist policy has socialist lobbying all over it

    The left write much of the policy, doesn't matter who signs off, Michael Martin through fear of RTE and the Irish Times has happily abandoned his parties rural voter base

    The left run this country


  • #118
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    seasidedub wrote: »
    Almost all other EU countries charge for water. In my 2 previous homes in 2 different countries I had water metres in the homes- one for hot (as it was pumped hot from the city) and one for cold. You pay for what you use. Seems very fair.

    True, those other EU countries including your Finland example don't pay double or triple for water. Their motor tax goes directly to transportation infrastructure unlike here from which 66% of our motor tax is diverted to Irish Water. Charge once for water(water charges not from motor tax) and be transparent with it like other EU countries and then it's fair.


  • #119
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    klaaaz wrote: »
    True, those other EU countries including your Finland example don't pay double or triple for water. Their motor tax goes directly to transportation infrastructure unlike here from which 66% of our motor tax is diverted to Irish Water. Charge once for water(water charges not from motor tax) and be transparent with it like other EU countries and then it's fair.


    Agreed.

    Alternatively, give 'free' water to the masses and pay me a grant for my well which costs a fortune to run and maintain.

    And, while I'm ranting, hey Leo shove your rural broadband up your back passage and give me a mains water supply! Rural domestic water is an essential, rural domestic broadband is a luxury.


  • #120
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    klaaaz wrote: »
    True, those other EU countries including your Finland example don't pay double or triple for water. Their motor tax goes directly to transportation infrastructure unlike here from which 66% of our motor tax is diverted to Irish Water. Charge once for water(water charges not from motor tax) and be transparent with it like other EU countries and then it's fair.

    If Irish Water had been introduced as a way of conserving water and upgrading infrastructure it would have succeeded, but it was brought in as an austerity measure.


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  • #121
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    If Irish Water had been introduced as a way of conserving water and upgrading infrastructure it would have succeeded, but it was brought in as an austerity measure.

    BS


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