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Why do Irish people support English teams?

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Comments

  • #932
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    No you are invested in the community a sense of place.
    It is a pride about your area, your identity your roots.

    Are people being different by supporting one of the top teams in England?
    The way it is in Ireland you are being different by not claiming to 'support' an English team.
    It is almost expected/assumed if you are interested in sport at all!

    One can be invested in one's community and roots without sport.
    And one can enjoy sport for sport's sake without any community link whatsoever.
    Absolutely zero reason why the two have to go together.
    For a lot of people they do, for a lot of people they don't.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #933
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    That's what worked for you - cool. But for other people it can work at remote distances.

    Well nothing beats being there. Being there on cup final day or smashing your rivals with an injury time winner. Fine if you don't agree but if not, then we're on different planets. Can't beat being there, you just can't.


  • #934
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    We've been here before. Be warned in odyssey you're talking to someone who wasn't aware Wimbledon was a place. Just giving you the heads up.

    Wimbledon. Where the Wombles came from? Fairy tale.

    Crystal Palace doesn’t exist either mate.

    Anyway I have a solution - follow LOI Monday Tuesday Wednesday and the premier league Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday.

    Job done.


  • #935
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Wimbledon. Where the Wombles came from? Fairy tale.
    Crystal Palace doesn’t exist either mate.
    Anyway I have a solution - follow LOI Monday Tuesday Wednesday and the premier league Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday. Job done.

    No on Wednesdays you must follow Sheffield Wednesday.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #936
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Anyway I have a solution - follow LOI Monday Tuesday Wednesday and the premier league Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday.

    Job done.

    This... kinda. LOI on Friday nights, Premier League on Sat/Sun. Here's a shocker, most LOI fans do this. Pity more people don't love both!


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  • #937
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No on Wednesdays you must follow Sheffield Wednesday.

    Days of the week are so arbitrary. Such an Old Testament gimmick.


  • #938
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Counties are an arbitrary artificial boundary decided upon hundreds years ago by non Irish people. They were once as forced as any brand.

    So? It is a place an area that people identify with.

    How many Irish people know the area of Liverpool/Manchester.
    Some might never even have been there and claim to support one of the teams.

    To identify yourself with another far flung team says you are more into brand awareness rather than pride of place.

    There used to be huge games in the 50's between Drums v Rovers used to get huge attendances.
    There was a sense of place a sense of identity.
    But the power of marketing, cheaper travel and increased branding turned the tide.
    It has now no longer become about community, it is a consumer group who crave a brand- that brand is English top tier football.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #939
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    To be honest it would still be strange even if one was born in Manchester and the other born in Liverpool. It's all so arbitrary.
    Why get worked up about 22 men kicking a ball around a field if you're not one of the players subs or coaching staff?
    Why 22 men and a round ball and not 30 men and an oval ball?
    Or 22 men and wickets? Or 1 man trying to run faster than a bunch of other men? Or trying to cycle faster?

    If you live in either city want to get worked up about it when it's Manchester United v Liverpool, go ahead, it's all arbitrary.
    If you live in Dublin and want to get worked up about it when it's Manchester United v Liverpool, go ahead, it's all arbitrary.

    You get out of it what you put into it.

    You really don't realise why Liverpool vs Manchester is a derby do you?


  • #940
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Omackeral wrote: »
    This... kinda. LOI on Friday nights, Premier League on Sat/Sun. Here's a shocker, most LOI fans do this. Pity more people don't love both!

    Exactly !


  • #941
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Well nothing beats being there. Being there on cup final day or smashing your rivals with an injury time winner. Fine if you don't agree but if not, then we're on different planets. Can't beat being there, you just can't.

    To take an example, (A) Liverpool fans in a Dublin pub celebrating winning the Champion's League versus (B) being there at the Aviva watching your team win the LOI cup.
    I've no problem with someone saying they would prefer (B) over (A) or vice versa. Your choice is (B), sound.
    I do have a problem when somone denigrates or diminishes (A).

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #942
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Once upon a time it was arbitrary. Why that sport and not another, why care at all. It doesn't feel abritrary now but that's because humans have a tendency to identify and form associations. Even over something as meaningless as a sporting contest that some people in the same community as you could not be any less bothered about.
    That's what worked for you - cool. But for other people it can work at remote distances.

    Exactly, putting on a Premier Legume football jersey is like putting on the latest pair of headphones, jeans, runners now.
    It is all about brand image brand association, it has very little to do with real association in a communal sense.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #943
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    You really don't realise why Liverpool vs Manchester is a derby do you?

    Its an arbitrary rivalry not a derby. Why not Man City v Everton?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #944
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    So? It is a place an area that people identify with.

    Why do you need an area to identify with? Why not just enjoy the sport?
    Or like a team for their players or style?
    Why care about the sport at all?
    Are you a sporting fan or a fan of local things for local people?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #945
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Omackeral wrote: »
    This... kinda. LOI on Friday nights, Premier League on Sat/Sun. Here's a shocker, most LOI fans do this. Pity more people don't love both!

    Wasn't that the whole reason they moved to Friday and summer soccer, so those who only watched the Premier League would not have the excuse to avoid it?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #946
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    To take an example, (A) Liverpool fans in a Dublin pub celebrating winning the Champion's League versus (B) being there at the Aviva watching your team win the LOI cup.
    I've no problem with someone saying they would prefer (B) over (A) or vice versa. Your choice is (B), sound.
    I do have a problem when somone denigrates or diminishes (A).

    Generally you'll find it's (B) being denigrated by the Irish public.

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Shels''
    ''Yeah but which real team?''

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Cork City''
    ''No, which English team?''

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Bohs''
    ''That muck?!''


  • #947
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Its an arbitrary rivalry not a derby. Why not Man City v Everton?

    For people from Liverpool or Manchester that support those teams yeah it is a rivalry, just not as big because the two sides haven't really been on a level footing for a while.

    People from Manchester could play people from Liverpool in tiddlywinks and it would be heated.

    And if you knew the roots of it you wouldn't be calling it arbitrary


  • #948
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Always thought a derby is a local rivalry. I suppose Liverpool and Manchester are pretty close, if not quite local.


  • #949
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    So why did you pick spurs Hoddle/Waddle/Gazza?

    Whether you like it or not you are consumer of the product.
    That is why they have friendlies in the USA and Asia
    I know you you are now have now made yourself emotionally involved in it which is why the marketers love football.
    But you had to artificially create that emotional attachment. you picked Spurs as a five year old.

    I can see why people go mad over the glamour English teams jerseys stretched over the beer guts in the pub - a brand, something to do.
    But if it was a team which represented the place you live look how different the atmosphere is.
    It seems more real to me anyway.
    Dublin games, club gaa games, Ireland games etc. Or if you are into Rugby your province etc. Or your local LOI team.
    Then it is not forced, otherwise it seems artificial to me.
    Irish people going on about mancs and scouse scum it gets silly.
    And the putting on of accents when singing songs.

    I picked them because my brother supported them and he did so because he loved Glenn Hoddle and didn’t want to support Liverpool or United like all his mates.

    Even a kid who picks LOI over GAA has to force an emotional attachment by picking one sport over another by your logic.

    I agree on the Manc/Scouse scum nonsense by the way. But there is an inherent pseudo intellectual condescension in your posts. Calling fans of English teams consumers and assuming they all have beer guts and watch games in pubs.

    I took my little boy to Tottenham for the game yesterday. We both sat in the stadium afterwards devastated and about half a dozen Londoners, dealing with their own disappointment, went out of their way to cheer my little fella up. It was really amazing. One of them even thanked us for making the effort to go over. But every time I take my lad over, we share something wonderful that is far more than just a brand and we feel and are made to feel part of it by the locals.

    Also, my favourite golfer growing up was Bernhard Langer. Loved him and still do given what he’s done into his 50s and 60s. Am I a consumer of brand Langer too?


  • #950
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Why do you need an area to identify with? Why not just enjoy the sport?
    Or like a team for their players or style?
    Why care about the sport at all?
    Are you a sporting fan or a fan of local things for local people?

    Plenty do just enjoy the sports. But ask yourself... Why is the World Cup so big? Why is the GAA Championship so popular? Why are derby games the ones with the best atmospheres. It's tribal. Sport is tribal by its very essence. The two things are intertwined and it's better for it.


  • #951
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Wasn't that the whole reason they moved to Friday and summer soccer, so those who only watched the Premier League would not have the excuse to avoid it?

    It was actually to give ourselves an advantage in Europe and it's worked out pretty ok all things considered.


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  • #952
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Always thought a derby is a local rivalry. I suppose Liverpool and Manchester are pretty close, if not quite local.

    It's a derby without being a derby, if that makes sense. Same as Real and Barca.


  • #953
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Why do you need an area to identify with? Why not just enjoy the sport?
    Or like a team for their players or style?
    Why care about the sport at all?
    Are you a sporting fan or a fan of local things for local people?

    Both but local means way more to me.
    I enjoy most sports where there is tension/needle in it, contrast in styles if possible.
    That normally is best when there is a local rivalry, which is why when you are from that place you are really into it.
    The neutral can never get that same feel as the local.
    But it great to watch two local rivals take each other on, even when you are a neutral.

    Better still when you are a local fan, preparing for the big game against a local rival you are edgy the whole week before.

    If you just 'adopt' a team you know in your heart of heart's you are playing the part of the local.
    Trying to ape the rivalry the songs the accents, the hate against the rival team.
    It is not the same, it is like you are in a play, it seems forced and fake.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #954
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    I agree on the Manc/Scouse scum nonsense by the way. But there is an inherent pseudo intellectual condescension in your posts. Calling fans of English teams consumers and assuming they all have beer guts and watch games in pubs.

    I took my little boy to Tottenham for the game yesterday. We both sat in the stadium afterwards devastated and about half a dozen Londoners, dealing with their own disappointment, went out of their way to cheer my little fella up. It was really amazing. One of them even thanked us for making the effort to go over. But every time I take my lad over, we share something wonderful that is far more than just a brand and we feel and are made to feel part of it by the locals.

    You sound staunch as f*ck to be honest. I've no doubt your little lad will end up the same. Hope you had a great time regardless of the result.


  • #955
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    So why did you pick spurs Hoddle/Waddle/Gazza?

    Whether you like it or not you are consumer of the product.
    That is why they have friendlies in the USA and Asia
    I know you you are now have now made yourself emotionally involved in it which is why the marketers love football.
    But you had to artificially create that emotional attachment. you picked Spurs as a five year old.

    I can see why people go mad over the glamour English teams jerseys stretched over the beer guts in the pub - a brand, something to do.
    But if it was a team which represented the place you live look how different the atmosphere is.
    It seems more real to me anyway.
    Dublin games, club gaa games, Ireland games etc. Or if you are into Rugby your province etc. Or your local LOI team.
    Then it is not forced, otherwise it seems artificial to me.
    Irish people going on about mancs and scouse scum it gets silly.
    And the putting on of accents when singing songs.

    But then all sports are brands and you are a consumer. It does not matter where that team or person is from you support


  • #956
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Wimbledon. Where the Wombles came from? Fairy tale.

    Crystal Palace doesn’t exist either mate.

    Anyway I have a solution - follow LOI Monday Tuesday Wednesday and the premier league Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday.

    Job done.

    Considering people genuinely thought Wimbledon isn't a place I apologise if you are but I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No on Wednesdays you must follow Sheffield Wednesday.

    You keep bringing this up but you do realise that the football club was just named the same as the cricket club, the football club never had anything special about Wednesdays, if we were talking cricket you might have a point but we're not so you don't


  • #957
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Generally you'll find it's (B) being denigrated by the Irish public.

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Shels''
    ''Yeah but which real team?''

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Cork City''
    ''No, which English team?''

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Bohs''
    ''That muck?!''

    Never in my life have I heard this unless it was in jest.


  • #958
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    National team players to to play there.
    Teams get supported.
    Due to success of the English teams relatively to Irish and the presence of Irish international players in the UK game there is interest leading to newspaper and radio coverage. When tv becomes more prominent it has two impacts houses that have extra channels, all UK, would have English soccer on offer, also due to lack of tv at Irish matches it means that tv viewers in the pub or at home only have one option available to them.

    Eventually interest due to the population reaching enough exposure to it becomes self perpetuating, people get their favourite teams for various reasons but if it isn't your dad or brother having supported them it could be an Irish presence at the club or any other of random reasons. If the number of people passing down interest is high enough people will follow it and most of them will have a favourite team for some reason or other while a smaller number will be interested in the league in general. It's a long running soap opera and supporting a a team adds to the drama.


  • #959
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Omackeral wrote: »
    You sound staunch as f*ck to be honest. I've no doubt your little lad will end up the same. Hope you had a great time regardless of the result.

    Will hopefully get him to some LOI games during the summer. He should know there’s football here too and my LOI team are even more of a **** up than Spurs so I’m looking forward to proper ruining his life...


  • #960
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Even a kid who picks LOI over GAA has to force an emotional attachment by picking one sport over another by your logic.

    I agree on the Manc/Scouse scum nonsense by the way. But there is an inherent pseudo intellectual condescension in your posts. Calling fans of English teams consumers and assuming they all have beer guts and watch games in pubs.

    I took my little boy to Tottenham for the game yesterday. We both sat in the stadium afterwards devastated and about half a dozen Londoners, dealing with their own disappointment, went out of their way to cheer my little fella up. It was really amazing. One of them even thanked us for making the effort to go over. But every time I take my lad over, we share something wonderful that is far more than just a brand and we feel and are made to feel part of it by the locals.

    Also, my favourite golfer growing up was Bernhard Langer. Loved him and still do given what he’s done into his 50s and 60s. Am I a consumer of brand Langer too?

    You don't need to pick GAA or LOI you can do both.

    I think in fairness a few years back I remember a bit of a fuss about a Premier league chairman calling fans customers or something along those lines.

    Here's the thing that's grand but imagine making those memories every Friday night


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  • #961
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Generally you'll find it's (B) being denigrated by the Irish public.

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Shels''
    ''Yeah but which real team?''

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Cork City''
    ''No, which English team?''

    ''Who do you support?''
    ''Bohs''
    ''That muck?!''

    Well if you track my comments on this thread at no point have I done that.
    If I say muck about a LOI team it's about the team not the LOI :)

    It would be better if we could all just get along... and if LOI fans want to see more LOI fans they need to talk 'up' the experience of being there rather than talk 'down' the TV experience. The local angle I don't think will work either, because if someone puts local above all they will just reinforce their local GAA club.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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