new ICBF Proofs

jd06 · 21-12-2015 2:30pm

tismesoitis wrote: »

Where do u check this info?

I checked my icbf and the last listing for females star ratings was August 15????

croot · 21-12-2015 2:46pm

tismesoitis wrote: »

Where do u check this info?

Log into ICBF site and go to this link

patsy_mccabe · 21-12-2015 4:18pm

The above didn't work for me, says that I am not in Herd-PLus.
I could generate a report though when I went into;
/Reports/ Eurostar/ BDGP Euro-Star Report/ Generate Report/

limo_100 · 21-12-2015 11:14pm

bought an apz heifer had an index of 12 yesterday today shes 107 5star calved and all I think my luck is in.every 4 and 5 star I had in august have rose and all my other cows are gone from 1,2 and 3 stars to 4 and 5stars this is a great system well until there genotyped. I see one cow I made a mistake with had her down as an hca cow they have corrected her to HKG the si bull which is right these boys know what there at :cool:

jd06 · 22-12-2015 10:32am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The above didn't work for me, says that I am not in Herd-PLus.
I could generate a report though when I went into;
/Reports/ Eurostar/ BDGP Euro-Star Report/ Generate Report/

Mine is still showing aug 1st evn though the data seems different. ???

croot · 22-12-2015 11:16am

limo_100 wrote: »

bought an apz heifer had an index of 12 yesterday today shes 107 5star calved and all I think my luck is in.every 4 and 5 star I had in august have rose and all my other cows are gone from 1,2 and 3 stars to 4 and 5stars this is a great system well until there genotyped. I see one cow I made a mistake with had her down as an hca cow they have corrected her to HKG the si bull which is right these boys know what there at :cool:

Ya APZ has rocketed up from €1 to €15...

I have two weanling heifers off him and I'm still not sure what to do with them. I did a difference comparison between the August and December index and I'm up €240 when you add them all so its going the right way. 6 of my 4* heifers are now 5* but I've one cow that dropped €40 down to 1* now

Bigbird1 · 28-12-2015 6:11pm

Anyone here calve down any heifers or cows by ADX. Iv a nice heifer here by him from a milky cow. His latest maternal figures are poor for milk. Not sure what to do

tismesoitis · 28-12-2015 6:33pm

Bull away lad! We have 3 all with enough milk.

patsy_mccabe · 28-12-2015 7:10pm

I have one ADX heifer. Just about enough milk too.

Bellview · 29-12-2015 12:42pm

limo_100 wrote: »

bought an apz heifer had an index of 12 yesterday today shes 107 5star calved and all I think my luck is in.every 4 and 5 star I had in august have rose and all my other cows are gone from 1,2 and 3 stars to 4 and 5stars this is a great system well until there genotyped. I see one cow I made a mistake with had her down as an hca cow they have corrected her to HKG the si bull which is right these boys know what there at :cool:

be careful what you wish for .. the reliability are poor so what goes up could come down fast... if you look at some of the bulls ie ADX, Rossiter etc they were seen as the 'stars' and are now a lot lower. I bet when you look at the cows you could have a 5 star who in reality should be a 2 star.. while a 2 star should be 5...

this scheme is a numbers game and once your % work you can collect... but in reality I don't think the beef cattle will be any better in 5 years time as the scheme encourages use of limited bloodlines and discourages folks to experiment with new ones as the new blood line is unproven...

Bellview · 06-04-2016 11:51am

does anyone know when the next one is out...looking forward to next round of star roulette

patsy_mccabe · 06-04-2016 12:40pm

tanko · 06-04-2016 1:04pm

Bellview wrote: »

does anyone know when the next one is out...looking forward to next round of star roulette

I wouldn't hold your breath, When i click on the active bull lists on their website blank pages come up. They don't exactly inspire confidence when they can't even be bothered maintaining their website. What are we paying that €60 for again?

GiantPencil · 06-04-2016 1:11pm

tanko wrote: »

I wouldn't hold your breath, When i click on the active bull lists on their website blank pages come up. They don't exactly inspire confidence when they can't even be bothered maintaining their website. What are we paying that €60 for again?

Excel of ai bulls is out the 12th and the search function, active bull list & herd profiles is to be released on the 25th.

adne · 06-04-2016 1:24pm

Registered an adx heifer to 5 star cow yesterday, she shows up as 3 star in icbf.

Registered her full sister last year and she was genotyped, she is a 4 star.

Would have thought this years calf would be presumed a 4 star based on full sister before genotyped

Bellview · 06-04-2016 4:50pm

adne wrote: »

Registered an adx heifer to 5 star cow yesterday, she shows up as 3 star in icbf.

Registered her full sister last year and she was genotyped, she is a 4 star.

Would have thought this years calf would be presumed a 4 star based on full sister before genotyped

with icbf it is dangerous assume... I have seen ped bulls that were embroy's from the same flush and they had different stars... once the % work out we draw the few bob and hope the stars continue to shine... remember the reliability is approx. 20%... so 80% wrong

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-04-2016 8:14pm

Bellview wrote: »

with icbf it is dangerous assume... I have seen ped bulls that were embroy's from the same flush and they had different stars... once the % work out we draw the few bob and hope the stars continue to shine... remember the reliability is approx. 20%... so 80% wrong

It's not designed to improve individual animals in the way a pedigree breeder would like.

Using a group of 5 bulls across the herd like is recommended to dairy farmers will vastly improve the reliability to close to that of a proven bull, once enough data is collected to run the statistics. But, again, that's of little use to a pedigree breeder.

The whole programme is designed to improve the maternal traits of the national herd and that will take this or a similar programme and probably close to a decade.

All an individual pedigree breeder can do is use the best bulls he can use and hope they fulfill the criteria.

tanko · 06-04-2016 8:37pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

Excel of ai bulls is out the 12th and the search function, active bull list & herd profiles is to be released on the 25th.

Fair enough, but I don't see why they couldn't leave the December lists there until the April lists come out.

Bellview · 06-04-2016 10:11pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's not designed to improve individual animals in the way a pedigree breeder would like.

Using a group of 5 bulls across the herd like is recommended to dairy farmers will vastly improve the reliability to close to that of a proven bull, once enough data is collected to run the statistics. But, again, that's of little use to a pedigree breeder.

The whole programme is designed to improve the maternal traits of the national herd and that will take this or a similar programme and probably close to a decade.

All an individual pedigree breeder can do is use the best bulls he can use and hope they fulfill the criteria.

Not sure what exactly your point is but that was not my point. the point I was making is genetically two bulls from same dam & sire in the same flush have different stars, born with days of each other... they are genetically the exact same at birth why should they be different. you can have full brothers born a year a part and the stars could be different as more data on bloodlines

I am a member of the scheme and from looking at the way the data is pulled my jury is out as to the value it drives. The numbers are simply wrong... we have lads buying bulls with 20% reliability and they could get lucky with stars are really unlucky. I will draw the cash as it would be a shame to let it go.

the concept of the scheme is good but too many vested interests drawing cash from it ie ICBF, Teagasc & AI orgs. The independent folks that should have been protecting the farmers on the board did not do their job ie Henry Burns as he was either asleep at the wheel or complied with the vested interests... he even changed his story on the road between Tuam & Kilkenny when attending the briefing sessions on joining the program. It is a pity a great opportunity was missed to drive a scheme that might work

last year 4 of my heifer calves were slected for genotyping... 3 of them are now in spain. if ICBF had told me pick 4 heifers I would have selected 4 that would have stayed on the farm... and then they might get data from stock that they can use

unfortunately a consequence of the scheme will be narrow bloodlines as guys will focus on stars and not what will work... also it will encourage folks to play safe and stay away from new bloodlines...in Angus there is Rossiter who is poor & the ai are full of his sons... ironically goulding jumbo kings were the poorest trade on the day eventhough the stars are still there, but they are falling...

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-04-2016 10:45pm

Bellview wrote: »

Not sure what exactly your point is but that was not my point. the point I was making is genetically two bulls from same dam & sire in the same flush have different stars, born with days of each other... they are genetically the exact same at birth why should they be different. you can have full brothers born a year a part and the stars could be different as more data on bloodlines

I am a member of the scheme and from looking at the way the data is pulled my jury is out as to the value it drives. The numbers are simply wrong... we have lads buying bulls with 20% reliability and they could get lucky with stars are really unlucky. I will draw the cash as it would be a shame to let it go.

the concept of the scheme is good but too many vested interests drawing cash from it ie ICBF, Teagasc & AI orgs. The independent folks that should have been protecting the farmers on the board did not do their job ie Henry Burns as he was either asleep at the wheel or complied with the vested interests... he even changed his story on the road between Tuam & Kilkenny when attending the briefing sessions on joining the program. It is a pity a great opportunity was missed to drive a scheme that might work

last year 4 of my heifer calves were slected for genotyping... 3 of them are now in spain. if ICBF had told me pick 4 heifers I would have selected 4 that would have stayed on the farm... and then they might get data from stock that they can use

unfortunately a consequence of the scheme will be narrow bloodlines as guys will focus on stars and not what will work... also it will encourage folks to play safe and stay away from new bloodlines...in Angus there is Rossiter who is poor & the ai are full of his sons... ironically goulding jumbo kings were the poorest trade on the day eventhough the stars are still there, but they are falling...

On narrowing of bloodlines, it hasn't happened in dairying. What has actually happened is a larger number of bloodlines even as farmers have chosen ever higher rated bulls.

As more dairy herds are analysed, the outliers for different traits are picked up from whatever the bloodlines are and tested. They are either superior or not and if superior, are widely used and replaced within 3 or 4 years by a superior bull.

This replaced dairy bulls being picked from popular herds and bloodlines answer is hugely successful in the dairy industry.

Why do you think this isn't going to happen in the beef industry?

On selection of heifers, you are allowed more choice this year. Iirc, one of the reasons for the more rigid choice last year was the need to access data from as wide a net as possible for the stats to be more useful.

I agree with your point on apparently similar genetics showing up as different. Perhaps it's a point that should be taken up with the reps for the scheme as mistakes do happen especially at the start of a scheme or there may be a reason or reasons for those figures.

patsy_mccabe · 06-04-2016 10:54pm

Offspring from the same cow and bull should have identical ratings unless more or varying data is known about one over the other. I've often seen say linear scoring from full brother bulls result in a difference in their ratings. Seen it on breed society databases.

blue5000 · 06-04-2016 11:47pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Offspring from the same cow and bull should have identical ratings unless more or varying data is known about one over the other. I've often seen say linear scoring from full brother bulls result in a difference in their ratings. Seen it on breed society databases.

There's some massive differences between me and my two brothers, AFAIK we all had the same parents

Agree with you, linear scoring could affect a bull's functionality, say one of them had bad feet. Weight for age could be different too. Just because they were full brothers doesn't mean they were clones.

Bellview · 07-04-2016 12:01am

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On narrowing of bloodlines, it hasn't happened in dairying. What has actually happened is a larger number of bloodlines even as farmers have chosen ever higher rated bulls.

As more dairy herds are analysed, the outliers for different traits are picked up from whatever the bloodlines are and tested. They are either superior or not and if superior, are widely used and replaced within 3 or 4 years by a superior bull.

This replaced dairy bulls being picked from popular herds and bloodlines answer is hugely successful in the dairy industry.

Why do you think this isn't going to happen in the beef industry?

On selection of heifers, you are allowed more choice this year. Iirc, one of the reasons for the more rigid choice last year was the need to access data from as wide a net as possible for the stats to be more useful.

I agree with your point on apparently similar genetics showing up as different. Perhaps it's a point that should be taken up with the reps for the scheme as mistakes do happen especially at the start of a scheme or there may be a reason or reasons for those figures.

I'm not as up to speed on dairy but is there a bull called omar who is in all genetics.

The dairy side may have a different challenge on selling male calves ie jex bulls at a fiver & cows that will struggle to calve much more than a rabbit. when you hear comments from Donough Berry making comments that the dairy herd can become the pipeline for beef... it will probably be a lower cost model for beef but the beef industry needs to get ready for supplying mince meat market only.

I will speak for angus only but so far the maternal program has narrowed on bloodlines - Rossiter and the bulls have only come from herds where the owners relationships to icbf could be open to question to level of indepndence

bogman_bass · 07-04-2016 12:16am

Bellview wrote: »

I'm not as up to speed on dairy but is there a bull called omar who is in all genetics.

The dairy side may have a different challenge on selling male calves ie jex bulls at a fiver & cows that will struggle to calve much more than a rabbit. when you hear comments from Donough Berry making comments that the dairy herd can become the pipeline for beef... it will probably be a lower cost model for beef but the beef industry needs to get ready for supplying mince meat market only.

I will speak for angus only but so far the maternal program has narrowed on bloodlines - Rossiter and the bulls have only come from herds where the owners relationships to icbf could be open to question to level of indepndence

The augment was made that there would be only Oman daughters and granddaughters around a after 5 years and that everything would be inbred. That didn't prove to be the case. There was 2 years of Oman sons being used heavily and then everybody moved into the next big thing. Same will happen to beef.

As for your point on dairy beef, Who is to say suckler animals make better steaks?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-04-2016 10:29am

Bellview wrote: »

I'm not as up to speed on dairy but is there a bull called omar who is in all genetics.

The dairy side may have a different challenge on selling male calves ie jex bulls at a fiver & cows that will struggle to calve much more than a rabbit. when you hear comments from Donough Berry making comments that the dairy herd can become the pipeline for beef... it will probably be a lower cost model for beef but the beef industry needs to get ready for supplying mince meat market only.

I will speak for angus only but so far the maternal program has narrowed on bloodlines - Rossiter and the bulls have only come from herds where the owners relationships to icbf could be open to question to level of indepndence

Looking at Jex bull calves is only taking one point of the profitability of the dairy animal.

A cow in calf to a Jersey bull will have a virtual trouble free calving and will come back into heat quicker because there will be no damage or strain on the cow while calving. She will also have a better chance of going in calf and remaining in the herd for longer and allow more options in culling for choice rather than being forced to due to late calving or not going in calf.

The Jex bull calf will be sold at a loss but there is a market there for them or else they wouldn't get sold.

The Jex heifer calf will benefit from the diversity of bloodlines going into her genetic make up and hybrid vigour will allow her to grow nearly as fast as her purebred herdmates and show heat and go in calf quicker than her purebred herdmates.

She will also produce more kgs of solids in her milk than her herdmates and remain in the herd for longer than her purebred herdmates which more than compensates for the loss of sale value for herself and her bull calf over her lifetime.

As for her calving nothing bigger than a rabbit, lol. I have seen jersey and jersey cross cows push out calves that her bigger friesian herdmates would struggle to calve, from friesian to charolais to BBs. They have a much better structure in their pelvis that allows them to push out virtually anything. Ask any lad with a Jex herd over on the dairy thread, Greengrass eg, and he will tell you that them not being able to calve anything bigger than a rabbit is just fantasy.

Bigbird1 · 11-04-2016 8:03pm

Any idea when the new proofs are out ?

GiantPencil · 11-04-2016 8:31pm

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Any idea when the new proofs are out ?

Excel of ai bulls is out the 12th and the search function, active bull list & herd profiles is to be released on the 25th.

MeheeHohee · 12-04-2016 9:38pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

Excel of ai bulls is out the 12th and the search function, active bull list & herd profiles is to be released on the 25th.

Still no sign of this, I'm guessing it will be a few days late as is tradition

GiantPencil · 13-04-2016 1:55am

Wish they would upload the updates on a Friday evening....my day is ruined when they release them!

patsy_mccabe · 18-04-2016 9:32am

Beef Results still not up.

new ICBF Proofs

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