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21-04-2020, 00:22   #346
mr chips
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Hi MC.

So would I be correct what I've compiled here?

Boland - Ní Bheoláin, Ó Beolláin, Ó Breólláin ('Ní' replaces 'Ó' when surname belongs to female.) If a girl is born into the family, her surname will be Ó Bheoláin. However if she marries into family, her married surname will become Uí Bheoláin. In other words, 'Ní' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Uí' indicates 'wife of'.

Adams - Mac Ádhaimh ('Mac' changes to 'Nic' for females.) If a girl is born into Mac Ádhaimh family, her surname will be Nic Ádhaimh. However if she marries into Mac Ádhaimh family, her married surname will become Mhic Ádhaimh. In other words, 'Nic' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Mhic' indicates 'wife of'.

The first part of your response above should read - "If a girl is born into the family, her surname will be Bheoláin."

I'm a bit surprised that Ó Breolláin is given as a source for Boland - thought it would have been anglicised as Brolin. Anyone?

Mac Coinnigh is the surname of people I know whose anglicised name is Kinney, although McKinney is certainly derived from it as well.
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21-04-2020, 04:13   #347
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Some people prefer that. Some choose not to use it. I think Mother Foclóir even debated it in one of their podcasts, and recognised it's an interesting facet of feminist linguistic theory and Irish tradition.
I think today it would be seen as very patriarchal, like Mrs. John Boylan in English.

Is/was there a 'social standing' distinction between Ó and Mac, Ó meaning 'grandson of' and therefore having a better lineage?
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23-04-2020, 10:03   #348
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Cheers, IO. sloinne.ie even breaks down by married/unmarried names for females. Nice.
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23-04-2020, 10:04   #349
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Would it be more correct to use Bean Uí Bheoláin for the wife's name?
https://www.sloinne.ie/surname/ga/o-beollain-2/
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26-04-2020, 11:44   #350
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I think today it would be seen as very patriarchal, like Mrs. John Boylan in English.

Is/was there a 'social standing' distinction between Ó and Mac, Ó meaning 'grandson of' and therefore having a better lineage?
With regard to surname formation there was no 'social standing' difference between which form was adopted in earliest surnames in 11th-12th century Ireland.

For example Mac Carthaigh was just as high a social standing as Ó Briain.

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Carthach's son was known as Muireadhach mac Carthaigh (meaning "Muireadhach, son of Carthach"). Such ephemeral patronymics were common at the time. However, when Muireadhach died in 1092 his sons Tadhg and Cormac adopted Mac Carthaigh as an actual surname. Following the treaty of Glanmire in 1118, dividing the kingdom of Munster into Desmond and Thomond, this Tadhg became the first king of Desmond, comprising parts of the modern counties of Cork and Kerry.
Of course junior branches of families which had fallen out of the Derbfhine would often produce 'cadet surnames'. So for example:

Mac Maghnusa (McManus) from Maghnus Ua Conchobhair (d. 1181), his descendants remained as Ua Conchobair (O'Connor) until the early 14th century by which time they were had fallen out of the derbfine.

In which case they adapted 'Clann Maghnusa' (children of Maghnus) to produce their surname.

Of course before surnames there were generally 'dynastical' type names that were often formed around 'Uí' or using specific formulae

eg.
Moccu x (oldest -- 'tribe of x')
Dál X
Síl X
Slíocht x
Clann x (Children of x)

Slíocht was still used for new branches of surnames in 16th century, so for example 'Sliocht Airt Uí Néill' which was also a lordship around Omagh.
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26-04-2020, 13:03   #351
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That word sliocht is connected with a phrase used by well-wishers for newly-weds - Sliocht sleachta ar shliocht bhur sleachta. Closest literal translation I can come up with is "May your descendants' descendants have grandchildren" - it's a more elegantly (and enthusiastically!) expressed version of "may this union be fruitful" in English.

Random connection alert! That phrase made me think of the word "sleacht", which can be found in a few placenames - Slaughtneil being one such in Co. Derry which would be well-known in GAA circles. It's also be the basis for the modern iteration of another placename not far from there, Slaghtaverty or "Sleacht Ábhartaigh" - Ábhartach's burial stone/tomb. Ábhartach was a bad b@stard reputed to have drunk the blood of his victims, who may or may not have been Bram Stoker's inspiration for Dracula. Whether he was or not, that stone does exist and is still in place, on the farm where my other half's mother was born and bred. About 30 years ago, a nephew of hers (my wife's cousin) tried to move it several times, only the digger broke down. So he repaired it, then it broke down again. So he hired in another digger, and it broke down too. So he got in another(!) digger and a guy to do the job for him, and the fella slipped from the digger and broke his leg. So then he left it alone.
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30-04-2020, 10:33   #352
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Hi. What would 'Cumann Rince Dea Mheasa' mean in English? Thanks.
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01-05-2020, 08:41   #353
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Also, 'Rince Tuatha Nua'?
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01-05-2020, 08:45   #354
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2

Sounds like a breakaway organization...possibly set up in opposition to Dirty Dancing



Possibility: The Approbation Dance Association.
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01-05-2020, 10:36   #355
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Cumann rince means dance club/association etc. The "Dea Mheasa" part means approved - I'm not familiar with whatever regulations might exist concerning competitive dancing etc but in this case, I assume it's the approved form of dance for taking part in a particular competition, feis etc.

Rince tuatha nua would be new country dance - for all I know, this could be line-dancing! Or (pure guesswork here) if it's connected to your previous query, maybe it's a different style of dance for a different competition? Tbh, when it comes to my knowledge about that sort of thing, I'm about as confident as Father Ted in Ireland's biggest lingerie section ...
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03-06-2020, 12:46   #356
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Hopefully someone can correct me if this is wrong.

Looking to create a house name for a new build and thinking that Scots Cottage would be a good one. I came across a translation that I like to look of but need someone with better Irish to check it makes sense.

Tigín hAlba

Thank you in advance.

Murray
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03-06-2020, 16:59   #357
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Tigín na Scot could work (if you mean Scots as the plural of Scottish people).

Tigín Scoit if it belongs to one Scot.

Tigín na hAlban would be the Scotland Cottage.
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03-06-2020, 17:35   #358
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Thank you.
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03-06-2020, 18:04   #359
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Tigín is ok for little house/cottage. You could also have "Teachín".

You wouldn't have the h at the start of Alba there. My first thought was to say "Tigín Alba", but after going to check it I'm not 100% sure now. It could be that I'm allowing some of the Gaidhlig (Scottish Gaelic) that I learned many years ago to influence my thinking! What we call Irish is "Gaeilge" or "Gaelinn" in the language itself. Scottish Gaelic, or Gaidhlig, is really just another dialect (or grouping of dialects) of the same language.

In Irish Gaelic, the word for Scotland is "Albain". Any online resource I've checked thus far is giving the genitive case as "na hAlban". So "the little house of Scotland" would be "Tigín na hAlban".
In Scottish Gaelic, the word for Scotland is "Alba". So "the little house of Scotland" would be "Bothan Alba". However, this is very close to the Gaeilge word "bothán", whose meaning in Ireland is more akin to hut or shack, rather than cottage.

In any case though, neither of those formats is quite the same as "Scots Cottage", so my instinct would still be to go with "Tigín Alba". But I'd hold off until someone else can offer a view on that and in the meantime I'll chat to someone I know who would have a better idea.
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05-06-2020, 18:32   #360
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Thank you Mr Chips

I am almost sure it will be Tigín Alba, always best to have short and sweet and more easy for others to remember.

Thanks again to everyone who helped out.
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