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would you say most priests actually believe in god?

12357

Comments

  • #122
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Not a mistake just random chance. The thing is most religious people work backwards from where they are now, if you instead do a bit of astrophysics and work forward from the very beginning there is very, very little room (only before the beginning), and no need, for a god anymore

    You said it yourself Not a mistake.
    It's obvious we/earth/life are/is not a mistake.
    We were created by God totally on purpose. Amen.


  • #123
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    You said it yourself Not a mistake.
    It's obvious we/earth/life are/is not a mistake.
    We were created by God totally on purpose. Amen.

    No, that it is not thought of in terms of a 'mistake'. Random chance, that's all.

    At what point do you think God stepped in and created life? Why go to all the bother of a creating an unfathomably large universe just for us?


  • #124
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    Not only do all priests believe in God.. the majority of humans do also. Amen
    I disagree.

    You can kind of see cognitively that they don't.

    The language we use for prayer ..its very ...fake.

    Its sort of for a robot god. Not a real feeling god.

    A real feeling god ..that is a relationship. Its intimacy.


  • #125
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    riffmongous wrote: »
    No, that it is not thought of in terms of a 'mistake'. Random chance, that's all.

    At what point do you think God stepped in and created life? Why go to all the bother of a creating an unfathomably large universe just for us?

    I suppose it was Gods way of creating air, oxygen for us to breathe.. emmmm making water etc etc... Anyway you'd have to ask God all those questions. Amen


  • #126
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    I suppose it was Gods way of creating air, oxygen for us to breathe.. emmmm making water etc etc... Anyway you'd have to ask God all those questions.

    You forgot to say 'Amen.' Off to confession with you.


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  • #127
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,657 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    But there is a big difference between looking up into the night sky, and pondering the meaning of everything... and someone who actually believes hook line and sinker in the big spaghetti monster in the sky!

    There is a HUGE difference between those two things!

    The first person is naturally inquisitive and has lots of questions that they would like answers to, but acknowledges that we don't currently have those answers... the second person has blind faith in something they read in some dusty old book.

    The second person is not inquisitive, they are brainwashed and believe they already know all the answers to those big questions. (With zero legitimate evidence to back any of it up)

    Thats a very unfair inference. It implies that people who believe in a higher power, or God for argument's sake, all arrived at this conclusion from the same path, that of religious-conditioned dogma and they are too scared to question this centuries-old method of oppression and means to control men, women and children, which is exactly what the catholic church was and is.

    I was raised as a Catholic and I started to question the logic of this system which took money from poor, struggling families every mass and dictated exactly how people should act, lest they end up in fiery hell or (to me) a boring heaven of hanging around on clouds for eternity. A "God" riddled with judgment and with absolute and exact rules for behaviour which left no room for emotional or spiritual growth. That isn't a God, its a dictator. The bible is now over 2000 years old and hence its fair enough to question its accuracy or relevance. I dont doubt a person called Jesus Christ existed once, but I completely rejected the hate filled, sexist, homophobic and hypocritical teachings of the Catholic church and looked deeper.

    There are things in this world we cant explain of course and science does have its place to further our evolution, otherwise we would all be worshipping the sun. But science has never been able to explain the workings of the spirit or soul within us, indeed they say it doesnt exist. The reality is we have been sent here for a reason, we have no idea what that reason is until we pass on, we need to evolve and tune into our spiritual curriculum. We are here for a blink then we are gone, humans were never designed to live forever but to fulfil an under-developed section of their spirit which is tested in conditions of cruelty, unfairness and alleged imbalance. Its all there for a reason, a higher purpose. We are too blinded by ego and emotion most of the time to appreciate it but there is a God, and its pure love, pure light and all encompassing. There are no mistakes or co-incidences in the Universe. ;)


  • #128
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    While some of them probably do have doubts from time to time I think most of them still believe in God, years ago they were pushed into it but the few young men who come priests now seem to genuinely want to be one.

    Christianity might be declining in Europe but in Asia, Africa and South America its still very strong.

    And the other main religion Islam also has over a billion followers.


  • #129
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    If they believed in god ....the pope wouldn't live in palace.


  • #130
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    I honestly think if Ireland hadn’t been oppressed our natural tendency is probably towards some kind of laid back not all that serious religious outlook.

    The fact that what was basically English sectarianism, particularly in the Cromwelian era did so much damage here wedded a lot of people to the Roman Catholic Church as a badge of rebellion against the establishment.

    Even the Anglican Churches are really only a political split from the Catholic Church. With a few very minor differences, they are very much a form of Catholicism, just with the Roman connectons severed. They’re not really very Protestant in the reformation sense, rather the English fell out with Rome for geopolitical reasons as it was de facto run by Spain and pre revolutionary France, who were the direct competitors of England at the time.

    Had we been left to our own devices, it’s very likely that we would have ended up with some form of easy going religion perhaps based around the Irish Celtic church era - it could have evolved into some kind of Irish Protestantism, without the political connotations associations.

    Perhaps that’s sort of where we’ve ended up - a bunch of Increasingly agnostics and atheists with a Catholic layer in the culture. You see very similar in France, Québec, Belgium, Germany etc etc

    The real hardcore of dogmatic Christian stuff these days is very much puritanical and evangelical and increasingly centred in the US. Most of Europe is post religious, we just got to that stage several decades late.

    The church running >90% of schools here isn’t exactly what you’d call normal though and it’s not really going to be very compatible with an increasingly secular and diverse Ireland. I could see that becoming much more of a problem as the decades roll on if we don’t do anything to evolve an education sector that fits society.
    Right now we are trying to shoehorn an increasingly diverse society into a very conservative and religious education system, forgetting that it’s a service to and paid for by society and not the other way around.

    The education system needs to reflect us. We shouldn’t have to be bending over backwards and baptising kids, keeping our mouths shut about divorces, atheism, being gay etc to fit into a public service that we need to use and pay for. Nor should we be creating educational divides between people on basis of religious background or gender, which we seem to think is totally fine for some reason.


    the english opposed catholicism because of the competing power of france and spain who aligned with the pope , it was political rather than doctrinal for the most part , their true believer bible bashers headed to america on the mayflower , scotland however fully embraced the whole theology of protestant reformation , , its why us irish faced much more prejudice of a sectarian variety in scotland than in england ,( the english looked down upon us but didnt care about the detail of our faith ), also why northern ireland was - is such a mess , ulster protestants are presbyterians , much more hardcore than the pragmatic kind of split which happened from rome in england


  • #131
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    beveragelady wrote: »
    In a minute somebody will be along to tell you that this isn't exactly an original argument. (He might tell you you're not very smart too, but you can ignore that.) The fact that it's an old argument doesn't mean it's an invalid argument. There's simply no way that a benevolent omnipotent being would allow these things to happen. If you stood by and allowed a child to suffer and die when it was within your power to intervene you would be reviled by anybody who knows you. You could be prosecuted, in fact.
    He created the world from nothing, provided manna in the desert, brought a flood to punish all mankind, but couldn't be arsed to feed a dying toddler?

    The mythology doesn't stand up to any sort of critical thought.

    Unless they're all happy enough to prostrate themselves before a bad-minded or ineffectual god, there's no way priests believe a word of it.

    the God of scripture is the biggest genocidal maniac in all of history , makes stalin and hitler look like choir boys

    i personally dont know what there is when we die , i dont believe in what i was told growing up however as the God presented to me is a truly ghastly figure, the only motive i see for worshiping him is fear of punishment


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  • #132
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    the God of scripture is the biggest genocidal maniac in all of history , makes stalin and hitler look like choir boys

    i personally dont know what there is when we die , i dont believe in what i was told growing up however as the God presented to me is a truly ghastly figure, the only motive i see for worshiping him is fear of punishment

    I've noting against religious people.

    But my interpretation of the God of the scriptures is a sand demon from the middle east who's psychotic, narcissistic, insecure and unpredictable...

    As an archetype this middle Eastern demon is the most destructive of them all, and the divel ain't so bad after all.
    He was rebellious and stood up to his boss, and then got kicked out of the cloudy city and his friends went down with him.

    The sand demon then demonized Lucifer as being the bad guy and the beat goes on....


  • #133
    8kczg9v0swrydm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭8kczg9v0swrydm


    I would echo what many posters have already said - it would be nearly impossible to live the life and not to have the faith.

    Think about it - priests willingly decide to give up one of the most beautiful things about being human: romantic love, marriage and having a family. Only a greater love could elicit such a sacrifice. Those who have experienced something of Christ, His beauty and His love, can understand the priest, I think.

    I have been very privileged to know a number of excellent priests. Some of them radiate a holiness. I have seen how hard they work - those who are members of religious orders receive no pay, they might get pocket money of around 100 euro per month. It is a life of love, charity, poverty, sacrifice and obedience to superiors. Could many hack it?

    At the same time, I do think some priests could have had their faith seriously chipped away. There could be many reasons for this. Some are overworked - with all their duties they do not make time for talking to God in prayer. It is common knowledge that prayer is the lifeline of faith - stop praying and your faith will wither. Some priests dissented from Church teachings, in areas that the Church more then ever needs her priests to be faithful. In such cases, these priests might start questioning the rest of their faith, leading to confusion and dejection.

    It is a beautiful thing to meet a priest who is beaming with faith, delighting in serving the people and having the privilege of telling them about Christ, the model of all priests, who came to save His people from their sins.


  • #134
    8kczg9v0swrydm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭8kczg9v0swrydm


    nthclare wrote: »
    I've noting against religious people.

    But my interpretation of the God of the scriptures is a sand demon from the middle east who's psychotic, narcissistic, insecure and unpredictable...

    As an archetype this middle Eastern demon is the most destructive of them all, and the divel ain't so bad after all.
    He was rebellious and stood up to his boss, and then got kicked out of the cloudy city and his friends went down with him.

    The sand demon then demonized Lucifer as being the bad guy and the beat goes on....

    Hmm. Lucifer was the one who got the first humans to sin, whatever the allegory of the fruit tree represents. What gives you the idea that He was good?

    As to the God of the Bible appearing cruel, it is true that during the Israelite exodus pagan nations were put to the sword. This is something many Christians find puzzling. Why did a good God allow this, right? It is a big deal but just concluding that 'God is boo-boo' without engaging with the Scriptures and historical research is, well, far from perfect.

    Most of us know what it is like to teach a child. You have to go step-by-step, slowly, incrementally. You cannot start teaching computer science to a five year old. He or she just would not have the capacity to receive, comprehend and live out the information given. Start small, think big.

    What did the world look like at the time of the Exodus? We have widespread slavery, massacres and destruction. Infants were regularly exposed to die if they were female or defective. People were sacrificed to cruel pagan 'gods' who demanded blood in return for a good harvest etc (something akin to what the Aztecs were doing).

    God chose one nation, the tribe of Abraham, to teach them what it means to be human and what it means to live in harmony with Him. He couldn't bring them from 0 to 100, the education would take centuries. The sad thing is that even with the little He demanded from them, the Jews continuously rebelled and disobeyed. Israel is described as a 'harlot' in the OT - they continued to go back to the feral ways of the peoples and nations around them.

    The Jews took out the tribes in modern day Palestine (the Canaanites) because:

    a) that was the nature of war in these troubled times - they would not have known, and not accepted, any different;
    b) if the Canaanites stayed behind, they would have infected the Jews with their customs - as in fact happened, when remnants of the Canaanites were allowed to remain;
    c) the Canaanites were known for child sacrifice, and this fact appears in sources besides the Bible. Their land was taken from them as punishment - 'No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is going to drive them out before you.' (Deuteronomy 9:4);
    d) God gave the Canaanites 400 years to repent. There is a curious line in Genesis where Abraham wants to posses the Promised Land immediately. He is prevented by God, because ‘the sin of the Amorites (one of the Canaanite tribes) has not yet reached its full measure’ (Genesis 15:16). Now that's patience;
    e) Moreover, historians claim that the entry of the Israelites into the Promised Land led to a massive flight of the Canaanite population. If they largely fled, this would mean that only the remnants were killed.

    To progress the story, the pedagogical law of the OT was replaced by Christ in the NT. Even then the people were hardly ready to accept what He had to say. We still wince at giving our cloak to a man who has none, at loving a neighbour as much as ourselves, at turning the other cheek and at keeping all lustful thoughts out of our heart.

    It is also worth mentioning that ideas of equality, dignity, care and support for the weak, and a systematic renunciation of self for others are essentially Christian. Our society would be worse for the lack of them.


  • #135
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    A lot of priests seemed to drink a lot as well, I suppose the bottle was all the company they had when the day was done and they came home to an empty house.


  • #136
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Most priests I've met over the years have been learned and or intelligent. It seems implausible they would believe in God.

    Jesus seems to be a mishmash of older gods:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Sixteen_Crucified_Saviors

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #137
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    its amusing to think of a priest not believing in god... imagine you as a priest are called to a house after receiving a phone call to deliver somebody the last rights...
    You think... “I can give this fella the last happy meal over from McDonalds and it will do him as much good as this fûcking barrel of hooo haaa I’m about to say to him”.


  • #138
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Nora Mushy Polygamist wrote: »
    Hmm. Lucifer was the one who got the first humans to sin, whatever the allegory of the fruit tree represents. What gives you the idea that He was good?

    As to the God of the Bible appearing cruel, it is true that during the Israelite exodus pagan nations were put to the sword. This is something many Christians find puzzling. Why did a good God allow this, right? It is a big deal but just concluding that 'God is boo-boo' without engaging with the Scriptures and historical research is, well, far from perfect.

    Most of us know what it is like to teach a child. You have to go step-by-step, slowly, incrementally. You cannot start teaching computer science to a five year old. He or she just would not have the capacity to receive, comprehend and live out the information given. Start small, think big.

    What did the world look like at the time of the Exodus? We have widespread slavery, massacres and destruction. Infants were regularly exposed to die if they were female or defective. People were sacrificed to cruel pagan 'gods' who demanded blood in return for a good harvest etc (something akin to what the Aztecs were doing).

    God chose one nation, the tribe of Abraham, to teach them what it means to be human and what it means to live in harmony with Him. He couldn't bring them from 0 to 100, the education would take centuries. The sad thing is that even with the little He demanded from them, the Jews continuously rebelled and disobeyed. Israel is described as a 'harlot' in the OT - they continued to go back to the feral ways of the peoples and nations around them.

    The Jews took out the tribes in modern day Palestine (the Canaanites) because:

    a) that was the nature of war in these troubled times - they would not have known, and not accepted, any different;
    b) if the Canaanites stayed behind, they would have infected the Jews with their customs - as in fact happened, when remnants of the Canaanites were allowed to remain;
    c) the Canaanites were known for child sacrifice, and this fact appears in sources besides the Bible. Their land was taken from them as punishment - 'No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is going to drive them out before you.' (Deuteronomy 9:4);
    d) God gave the Canaanites 400 years to repent. There is a curious line in Genesis where Abraham wants to posses the Promised Land immediately. He is prevented by God, because ‘the sin of the Amorites (one of the Canaanite tribes) has not yet reached its full measure’ (Genesis 15:16). Now that's patience;
    e) Moreover, historians claim that the entry of the Israelites into the Promised Land led to a massive flight of the Canaanite population. If they largely fled, this would mean that only the remnants were killed.

    To progress the story, the pedagogical law of the OT was replaced by Christ in the NT. Even then the people were hardly ready to accept what He had to say. We still wince at giving our cloak to a man who has none, at loving a neighbour as much as ourselves, at turning the other cheek and at keeping all lustful thoughts out of our heart.

    It is also worth mentioning that ideas of equality, dignity, care and support for the weak, and a systematic renunciation of self for others are essentially Christian. Our society would be worse for the lack of them.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057987079&page=32
    You're repeating yourself there buddy.


  • #139
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Feisar wrote: »
    Most priests I've met over the years have been learned and or intelligent. It seems implausible they would believe in God.
    There are lots of intelligent people of that older generation who believe, implausible and all as it as. One of the in-laws said something about not wanting to face the possibility of their being no God, as they've spent all their years waiting for the promised reunion with their dead relatives.

    I'd guess that most priests fall into that group, that can't comprehend anything other than what they've been taught to believe since they were four years old.

    On the rare occasions that I'm in a Catholic Church, they all seem to be getting older and older - the priests, the readers, and the attendees, apart from maybe a few Africans or Filipinos.

    It's hard to see how it can survive for another 20-30 years.


  • #140
    quickbeam
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 16,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭quickbeam


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    You said it yourself Not a mistake.
    It's obvious we/earth/life are/is not a mistake.
    We were created by God totally on purpose. Amen.

    Then why did God make so many mistakes in his creation?

    Eg: evolution tells us that human women's difficulty with childbirth is because of a combintion of the bigger brain of humans exiting a birth canal tht's narrower because we started walking on our hind legs. If it was God's creation, then sure he'd have come up with a better solution.


  • #141
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    quickbeam wrote: »
    Then why did God make so many mistakes in his creation?

    Eg: evolution tells us that human women's difficulty with childbirth is because of a combintion of the bigger brain of humans exiting a birth canal tht's narrower because we started walking on our hind legs. If it was God's creation, then sure he'd have come up with a better solution.
    There isn't really a difficulty with human childbirth, the narrowness of the birth canal is fairly-well overcome by producing offspring that are considerably more premature than a lot of other viviparous animals. It's made us more fond of our children, and perhaps a more empathetic species, as a result. We have evolved a concern for weak members of society that seems unmatched throughout the animal world.

    It seems that this can plausibly be linked to all babies being born so helpless. Nearly everybody loves childen, and can't bear to think of them being harmed.


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  • #142
    quickbeam
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 16,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭quickbeam


    My point was that if it was all designed by God, it would have been made easier.

    As just one example. There are lots of things that could have been "designed" better. Evolution doesn't aim for perfection.


  • #143
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    quickbeam wrote: »
    My point was that if it was all designed by God, it would have been made easier.

    As just one example. There are lots of things that could have been "designed" better. Evolution doesn't aim for perfection.
    This is as off-the-mark as the old "why did God give children bone cancer?" question.

    The problems we've inherited through natural selection have also equipped us with the tools for their resolution. We as a species are on the cusp of being able to operate intelligent design, and transform and alleviate the random cruelties of life in the manner of a benevolent God. Maybe that's the point of life, if there is one, human progress and co-operation in the image of our supposed Creator.


  • #144
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    This is as off-the-mark as the old "why did God give children bone cancer?" question.

    The problems we've inherited through natural selection have also equipped us with the tools for their resolution. We as a species are on the cusp of being able to operate intelligent design, and transform and alleviate the random cruelties of life in the manner of a benevolent God. Maybe that's the point of life, if there is one, human progress and co-operation in the image of our supposed Creator.

    But didn't the benevolent God/supposed Creator create natural selection? Why would he/she have created natural selection, knowing it was going to result in children getting bone cancer?


  • #145
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    You are missing the point, life on earth is not supposed to be perfect. Your point is based on the foundation that our life here is all there is.

    If you accept the premise that God "is", and is beyond time, space and also our full comprehension then it follows that it is possible that we cannot understand why certain things are (yet at least).

    You are positing that God does not exist because things are not designed perfectly (as you understand perfect to be). So if it could be demonstrated, through scientific advances and discovery, that things all line up nicely would you then accept that God existed? Or would you rather say that it is the product of chance, happenstance etc. etc. and hence does not point towards the existence of God? I think you would say the latter, and if this is the case, your argument that God does not exist because of you see imperfections is not really an argument about which an honest discussion can be had.

    What would lead you to believe in God? The best basis to explore this idea is to consider whether or not there is "a" God (rather than a biblical or specific God)

    Personally, Aquinas' proofs satisfy me. Particularly contingency!


  • #146
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    People are saying its minimum wage.

    I wouldn't mind starting out on 24000 a year, free house with housekeeper, free food and drink in fancy establishments on offer most days. Money donations in envelopes to poke into if times were tough. Free healthcare. The most robust legal department in the world looking after you and enough power in the community that people would rather not listen to their children's stories of abuse than act against them.

    Tireless servant indeed.


  • #147
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    Not only do all priests believe in God but most Irish people do also..

    Do they now? :rolleyes:


  • #148
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    This is as off-the-mark as the old "why did God give children bone cancer?" question.

    The problems we've inherited through natural selection have also equipped us with the tools for their resolution. We as a species are on the cusp of being able to operate intelligent design, and transform and alleviate the random cruelties of life in the manner of a benevolent God. Maybe that's the point of life, if there is one, human progress and co-operation in the image of our supposed Creator.

    If everything is in the Creator's image, why didn't he create the perfect spec for all species rather than resort to tweaking things through natural selection process. This means he is not perfect either.


  • #149
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    People are saying its minimum wage.

    I wouldn't mind starting out on 24000 a year, free house with housekeeper, free food and drink in fancy establishments on offer most days. Money donations in envelopes to poke into if times were tough. Free healthcare. The most robust legal department in the world looking after you and enough power in the community that people would rather not listen to their children's stories of abuse than act against them.

    Tireless servant indeed.

    Sure why don't you do it then? They are fairly wanting for priests


  • #150
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Sure why don't you do it then? They are fairly wanting for priests

    Is this a serious question?

    Child abuse. Hiding sexual predators. Mother baby homes. Forced adoptions. Refusing contraception advise in Africa. Catholicism. Organised religion. Genocidal history. Auld wans that smell of piss thinking they can do what they want because they help you have a cup of tea.
    Worrying about wandering into a conspiracy and being pressured into keeping shtum.
    Taking money from lonely or bereaved people for prayers or company or the souls of the dead and using it to pay for priests to go to poor countries and carry out the same crimes that they carried out here when we were idiots. Sitting there telling people that it was all in the past while they molest and force adoption in most of south america and anywhere in Africa that they can get away with.

    Like the wages and perks are attractive but youd have to have a certain mindset going into it.


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  • #151
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    But didn't the benevolent God/supposed Creator create natural selection? Why would he/she have created natural selection, knowing it was going to result in children getting bone cancer?
    I suppose the argument goes that God gave man the conditions to break out of the prison-pond he put Man into in the first place, because all redemption, and all salvation requires an element of sacrifice and struggle.

    Maybe that's what we are here for, or so the narrative would go. We exist to work to improve and build upon our material conditions, so that we can break out of life's indignity and become like God himself, or know God, as they prefer to say.

    I don't personally subscribe to this, to be clear, but it has the element if a Noble Lie about it. I like it as a sort of roadmap. Especially now, with so much scientific power at our fingertips for good or for evil.


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