The V&V Feedback Thread part II

Ten of Swords · 19-01-2021 7:48pm #1

Hi Everyone,

I did say a number of weeks ago that we would have another feedback thread after New Year so I'd like to hear any feedback people have regarding the forum

I'd also like to avoid some of the pitfalls that the last thread ran into so let's avoid getting into circular arguments or petty point scoring. This is about constructive feedback.

A couple of things to remember,

1) All opinions are welcome however if people end up getting drawn into arguments they will be removed from the thread.
2) Brigading (coordinated harassment or thread derailment by a small group of posters) this thread, or forum, will not be permitted and if I think that is happening then the culprits will be removed without warning.
3) Report posts that you feel are being made in bad faith or attempting to draw others into an argument, do not engage on thread.

Unearthly · 19-01-2021 8:08pm

Thumbs up from me.

I think the biggest change i feel is that topics don't get derailed anymore with pointless debates that people won't agree on. A topic about a burger doesn't need a debate.

Mods very fast to respond and get things back on track.

[Deleted User] · 19-01-2021 11:51pm

Great work done removing the people that only wanted to contribute on a negative level.

It’s been really nice to be able to stay on topic and not to be dragged off in all sorts of ridiculous directions. Will be fantastic if it remains this way.

I have asked 3 direct questions to mods but never received any reply which was disappointing. Each question was to try and understand the moderating system better so I would not waste anyone’s time.

I had 2 videos removed from the veganuary thread and they were both videos from the offical veganuary campaign. Would have be nice to know why they were taken down. I’d like to put them back up.

As I will be busy this year I wanted to start a few video threads (not as time taxing) so would like to know what was wrong with the official veganuary videos so I don’t repeat the same mistake.

Fantastic work all round though and looking forward to the forum hopefully growing in numbers this year.

ElKavo · 20-01-2021 10:56am

Quite happy with the direction and moderation. There are still multiple attempts from a specific groups members to bring threads completely off topic. In general these are stopped, which is appreciated.

Thanks to the mods for their actions and prompt reaction.

Thelonious Monk · 20-01-2021 11:29am

It has improved alright, there was a time where you couldn't discuss vegan sausages without certain factions pulling apart the nutritional value of them. Good work mods.

ganmo · 24-01-2021 1:10pm

I've been out of here for 2 months...stuck my nose in yesterday to find something contrary to the charter in the first line of the first post that had been there for a week.
Yes it was removed after I reported it but for it to last as long as it did reflects poorly on the community here

[Deleted User] · 25-01-2021 12:44am

How do we agree to increase the deterrent to stop the wind-up posts from continuing ?

Is removing a post enough ? Is a warning enough ? Is a yellow card enough ?

Seems to me the punishments that are handed out are worth accepting, by some, because they are so lenient.

Plenty of posters have no problem being banned for 1-2 weeks on a forum they don’t actually use other than to wind up the regular users.

What do the mods and regular users think ?

NcdJd · 25-01-2021 10:42am

My view on how things have gone so far. Overall this is an interesting forum and have no problems with it. However there are a couple of posters that seem to think that because it is a vegan and vegetarian forum they can post videos and links to either promote their extreme animal rights views or take a dig at farmers. Yet when they are rightly challenged on what they post they get aggressive or start the "why are you posting in here" speel.

I see Gozunda was banned for a month for making his views known about the author on a link that someone posted in the veganuary thread about "let's get rid of the frigging cows". That to me was wrong as he was only discussing the article. I was carded in that thread which is fair enough as I took the bait rather than reporting uncivil and rude posts.

I'll probably get lynched for that but that's my view. The way I see it this is a public forum which I do enjoy some of the posters here but it seems to be held hostage from becoming a more popular forum due to a very small group of regulars that seem to want no discussion or debate to some of the controversial posts they submit and do not get any infractions other than their post being removed.

The vegan and vegetarian forum should be no different to any other forum with regard to moderating and regulars in here should not be above the ban hammer. If someone is constantly being uncivil to new posters or if they are posting inflammatory videos or views to cause trouble or try to get others banned they should be infracted also.

eviltwin · 25-01-2021 11:44am

I like the forum because its the one place on this site that caters for a non meat or dairy diet. The posters here are great about updating us on new products and the reviews of said products are very helpful.

The moderation has improved and its great that things have calmed down. This constant bickering was very off putting. Its a pain that we still have people popping in with their attempt at humour :rolleyes: but its being dealt with which is good.

I think there could be a sub forum or mega thread for issues relating to farmers vs vegans. I don't have a problem with the debate but the main page isn't the appropriate place for it and is very off putting. However some people want to discuss that and they should be able - I don't think its fair that it be dumped in the farmers forum either, I'm sure some of the members there are equally fed up with it all.

Bigbooty · 26-01-2021 12:45pm

What is really stiffling discussion here is those that are offended because we talk about animal rights. I'd like to remind the antivegans and those in the farming community that it wasn't so long ago that Feminist, LGBT and Anti-rascist politics were all deemed extremist. For us it's the animal exploitation and slaughter that's extreme. Debating the validity of that point doesn't really lead to any meaningful discussion.

Thelonious Monk · 26-01-2021 1:14pm

I just don't get why farmers are so obsessed with checking this forum constantly, vegans still make up a tiny percentage of the population yet they can't seem to be able to live with them having a different viewpoint to their own.

Nekarsulm · 26-01-2021 3:17pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I just don't get why farmers are so obsessed with checking this forum constantly, vegans still make up a tiny percentage of the population yet they can't seem to be able to live with them having a different viewpoint to their own.

I must be because of the continual "cruelty" label attached to them by a tiny number of posters here, along with allegations of "abuse" and "rapist" etc.

Thelonious Monk · 26-01-2021 4:21pm

Vegans think animal farming is inherently cruel. You just need to accept that, you're not going to change anyone's mind.

Nekarsulm · 26-01-2021 4:59pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Vegans think animal farming is inherently cruel. You just need to accept that, you're not going to change anyone's mind.

Not so delusional as to think that I'll change anyone's mind, because it's obvious a percentage of posters here take their education and information from videos shot in foreign countries with often deplorable or non-existent standards of animal cruelty regulations.
At the same time not going to meekly accept being labelled an animal abuser, rapist or a perpetrator of cruelty on animals in my care, on a public forum.
Are some peoples beliefs so fragile that healthy debate is abhorrent to them?

Ten of Swords · 26-01-2021 5:19pm

Let's stick to giving feedback rather than getting in digs at each other please

ganmo · 26-01-2021 6:00pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

What is really stiffling discussion here is those that are offended because we talk about animal rights. I'd like to remind the antivegans and those in the farming community that it wasn't so long ago that Feminist, LGBT and Anti-rascist politics were all deemed extremist. For us it's the animal exploitation and slaughter that's extreme. Debating the validity of that point doesn't really lead to any meaningful discussion.

You're forgetting that this is a vegetarian forum too. The post I was talking about in my earlier post wanted to exclude them from the thread too.

For my part I try to limit my input to this forum to facts which I can substantiate and that's how I intend to keep my interactions with this forum.

Bigbooty · 26-01-2021 7:35pm

ganmo wrote: »

You're forgetting that this is a vegetarian forum too. The post I was talking about in my earlier post wanted to exclude them from the thread too.

For my part I try to limit my input to this forum to facts which I can substantiate and that's how I intend to keep my interactions with this forum.

I've yet to see conflict between vegetarians and farmers. The problem is that between vegans and farmers/antivegans. Such is the circle of this forum. I always like to support any argument with facts and animal agriculture is very transparent in how it exploits animals. They even give guides and reports on how to do so.

Regardless of ones motives for doing so, vegetarianism is rooted in welfarism which isn't compatible with political veganism so I can see how Vegetarians would become quickly silenced or feel uncomfortable amongst all the noise. Feel free to create threads though as I doubt you'll see any vegans derailing your threads like other users have done

There's a big farming forum, they can bash us to their hearts are content on their own forum as I couldn't care less. I wouldnt dare dream of policing their language like they want to do here.

Mac Taylor · 26-01-2021 9:25pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

I've yet to see conflict between vegetarians and farmers. The problem is that between vegans and farmers/antivegans. Such is the circle of this forum. I always like to support any argument with facts and animal agriculture is very transparent in how it exploits animals. They even give guides and reports on how to do so.

Regardless of ones motives for doing so, vegetarianism is rooted in welfarism which isn't compatible with political veganism so I can see how Vegetarians would become quickly silenced or feel uncomfortable amongst all the noise. Feel free to create threads though as I doubt you'll see any vegans derailing your threads like other users have done

There's a big farming forum, they can bash us to their hearts are content on their own forum as I couldn't care less. I wouldnt dare dream of policing their language like they want to do here.

Is boards not a public forum where anyone can post anywhere....I didn’t realise that I was limited to what forums I could post because of where I posted earlier. I was involved in the food processing business for years.....vegetarian and non vegetarian and while I confess that I am a meat eater and farmer, I like to check in on this forum to see what’s trending and enjoy reading the reviews of various veg and vegan options. What I take issue with is the incendiary language used as has been mentioned before to make a point. If similar language was used to describe vegans then I would fully expect them to stand up for their beliefs and respond regardless of what forum it was posted in.

[Deleted User] · 26-01-2021 9:48pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Not so delusional as to think that I'll change anyone's mind, because it's obvious a percentage of posters here take their education and information from videos shot in foreign countries with often deplorable or non-existent standards of animal cruelty regulations.
At the same time not going to meekly accept being labelled an animal abuser, rapist or a perpetrator of cruelty on animals in my care, on a public forum.
Are some peoples beliefs so fragile that healthy debate is abhorrent to them?

Well this isn’t relevant at all.

It’s not ‘obvious’ how people are educating themselves at all. So that’s a nonsense comment.

I don’t care where it’s happening so you’re obsession with ‘foreign’ is also irrelevant. Animals don’t have nationalities. I first became a vegetarian while I was living in Ireland.

It’s nice you recognise that some countries are ‘countries with often deplorable or non-existent standards of animal cruelty regulations’ because Irish people are eating animals from those countries too. But in general borders or flags don’t come in to my consideration as to what is or isn’t animal cruelty. You need to understand that.

My beliefs aren’t fragile and to suggest that is insincere imo. I don’t like defending my choices, daily, to people who have ZERO interest in my choices other than to feel threatened by them. It’s a complete waste of my time and ruins the readability of the forum for those that want to use it for genuine interest reasons.

I believe the moderation has improved and hope it continues to tighten on those that only want to disagree with the choices made by V&V’s and their reasons for it.

Mac Taylor · 26-01-2021 9:59pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

“Is boards not a public forum where anyone can post anywhere....I didn’t realise that I was limited to what forums I could post because of where I posted earlier. I was involved in the food processing business for years.....vegetarian and non vegetarian and while I confess that I am a meat eater and farmer, I like to check in on this forum to see what’s trending and enjoy reading the reviews of various veg and vegan options. What I take issue with is the incendiary language used as has been mentioned before to make a point. If similar language was used to describe vegans then I would fully expect them to stand up for their beliefs and respond regardless of what forum it was posted in.

Can you show that billboard? Or explain why you’ve since deleted that part of the post.

After careful consideration I decided to take out that point as I did not want to cause any further hassle in this forum. I thought long and hard about posting in this forum as I’m not big into bringing hassle on myself, but it would seem I am too late for that.:mad:

I can’t say where the billboards were as I did not see them, I never said I did and as to where the child that did see it, I cannot say as that would be speculation and I prefer not to.

Tilikum17 · 26-01-2021 10:08pm

Mac Taylor wrote: »

After careful consideration I decided to take out that point as I did not want to cause any further hassle in this forum. I thought long and hard about posting in this forum as I’m not big into bringing hassle on myself, but it would seem I am too late for that.:mad:

I can’t say where the billboards were as I did not see them, I never said I did and as to where the child that did see it, I cannot say as that would be speculation and I prefer not to.

You were right to edit it.

Mods - As for the moderation on the forum, I think it’s going really well at the moment.

Mac Taylor · 26-01-2021 10:11pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

You were right to edit it.

Mods - As for the moderation on the forum, I think it’s going really well at the moment.

Would you mind then editing your post where you quoted me......

Bigbooty · 26-01-2021 10:13pm

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Is boards not a public forum where anyone can post anywhere....I didn’t realise that I was limited to what forums I could post because of where I posted earlier. I was involved in the food processing business for years.....vegetarian and non vegetarian and while I confess that I am a meat eater and farmer, I like to check in on this forum to see what’s trending and enjoy reading the reviews of various veg and vegan options. What I take issue with is the incendiary language used as has been mentioned before to make a point. If similar language was used to describe vegans then I would fully expect them to stand up for their beliefs and respond regardless of what forum it was posted in.

Boards is public, but it also has rules to ensure content is discussed appropriately and in a way which is relevant to each forum. You're free to post here but we shouldn't have to explain ourselves or have someone try and initiate a heated discussion about deforestation in the Amazon over a vegan burger or eating tofu just because they said "cruelty free".

I welcome meaningful discussion but the same groups of people have made it exhausting to think about regularly posting on this forum.
.

Tilikum17 · 26-01-2021 10:14pm

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Would you mind then editing your post where you quoted me......

Deleted ðŸ‘

Dravokivich · 26-01-2021 10:20pm

Mac Taylor wrote: »

I didn’t realise that I was limited to what forums I could post because of where I posted earlier.

It isn't. You don't have to defend yourself, just contribute in a reasonable manner.

Bigbooty wrote: »

I've yet to see conflict between vegetarians and farmers. The problem is that between vegans and farmers/antivegans. Such is the circle of this forum.

Their issue which you've not noticed is regarding the historic perception of Vegan and Vegetarian forum as heavily vegan centric. Vegetarians felt unwelcome. Your persistent likening of farmers as antivegans only further embeds that idea as vegetarians may not be vegans, or overly into the ethics/politics behind veganism.

Drop it now. You are only going to end up soliciting friction

This is what Ten of Swords has been asking in the OP and his follow up post within this thread. The purpose of which is to review continual improvements here. Not to dig up old bones.

Bigbooty · 26-01-2021 10:28pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

It isn't. You don't have to defend yourself, just contribute in a reasonable manner.

Their issue which you've not noticed is regarding the historic perception of Vegan and Vegetarian forum as heavily vegan centric. Vegetarians felt unwelcome. Your persistent likening of farmers as antivegans only further embeds that idea as vegetarians may not be vegans, or overly into the ethics/politics behind veganism.

Drop it now. You are only going to end up soliciting friction

This is what Ten of Swords has been asking in the OP and his follow up post within this thread. The purpose of which is to review continual improvements here. Not to dig up old bones.

Sorry. I won't say no more about that then as I don't want that sort of friction. I don't want to post in a vegan forum where I can't talk freely about ethics since that is what veganism essentially is. You may as well call the forum vegetarians and plant based if that's the case.

ganmo · 26-01-2021 10:39pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

Sorry. I won't say no more about that then as I don't want that sort of friction. I don't want to post in a vegan forum where I can't talk freely about ethics since that is what veganism essentially is. You may as well call the forum vegetarians and plant based if that's the case.

you want an animal rights forum?

Dravokivich · 26-01-2021 10:39pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

Sorry. I won't say no more about that then as I don't want that sort of friction. I don't want to post in a vegan forum where I can't talk freely about ethics since that is what veganism essentially is. You may as well call the forum vegetarians and plant based if that's the case.

Thanks,

I think it's more so a balance needs to be found between both groups. There's no point disenfranchising Vegans to turn some favor towards Vegetarians.

Bigbooty · 26-01-2021 10:58pm

ganmo wrote: »

you want an animal rights forum?

Not really, I would like to talk about veganism openly without people being offended at our mere existence and thoughts. Just because we talk about things like AI, live export or tail docking refering to it, and I apologize for the term since it is charged, in the context of animal "abuse" doesn't mean you have to be offended by it. You're entitled to go on with your day and not believe those things constitute that. You're not going to convince me that it isn't and I doubt you'll convince the 10 or so other vegans that too. I'm probably overestimating our numbers...

But we should still be allowed to discuss it without having to be held to a tribunal. If you're not interested in that or don't have anything constructive or aren't open to even learning why we think the way we do then what's the point in engaging? It's important for me how we treat animals is questioned and I don't think that is currently being allowed on this forum.

White Clover · 26-01-2021 11:38pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

Not really, I would like to talk about veganism openly without people being offended at our mere existence and thoughts. Just because we talk about things like AI, live export or tail docking refering to it, and I apologize for the term since it is charged, in the context of animal "abuse" doesn't mean you have to be offended by it. You're entitled to go on with your day and not believe those things constitute that. You're not going to convince me that it isn't and I doubt you'll convince the 10 or so other vegans that too. I'm probably overestimating our numbers...

But we should still be allowed to discuss it without having to be held to a tribunal. If you're not interested in that or don't have anything constructive or aren't open to even learning why we think the way we do then what's the point in engaging? It's important for me how we treat animals is questioned and I don't think that is currently being allowed on this forum.

Please don't be fooled by some of your fellow Vegans, some of whom are most vocal and aggressive on this forum, and who are clearly trouble makers and Sh1t stirrers of the highest calibre

<Snip> Not feedback, attacking posters

<Snip> Not feedback, attacking posters

<Snip> Attacking Moderation

At this stage, there is quite a dossier of evidence, of this blatant and corrupt one sided moderation.

It is telling, to note that every Vegan contributor to this thread has praised the moderating over the last number of weeks. That in itself tells quite alot.

It is time that boards.ie has a thorough examination of this forum and start handing out forum bans to those who constantly break the charter and to those who are so disingenuous as to call themselves Vegans.

^^ This is the only actual feedback that I can salvage from your post

Thelonious Monk · 27-01-2021 12:02am

<Snip> Not feedback

The V&V Feedback Thread part II

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