Advice for Carrauntoohil

15-10-2015 9:54pm

Jovetic wrote: »

What's the safest descent to get back to Cronin's yard?

Thinking of going up Brother O'Shea's gully now.

The safest ascent and descent is, by a mile, the Zig Zags. It's a long enough walk though, going both up and down that route might be a bit of a slog. Going up O'Sheas Gully is fine, it's certainly the easiest of the 3 gullies, but it's a more difficult descent. Incidentally, you asked how would you find the Zig Zags...you descend to the top of the Devil's Ladder and keep pressing on across Cnoc na Toinne, and keep an eye out for a cairn on the other side a few hundred metres from the summit.

Jovetic · 15-10-2015 9:55pm

Where are zig zags in relation to DL/BOSG?

15-10-2015 9:59pm

Jovetic wrote: »

Where are zig zags in relation to DL/BOSG?

Edited my post above to answer one about Zig Zags. They are on the same side as the Devil's Ladder, so going up O'Sheas Gully would enable you see a much different side to the mountain...the approach is completely different albeit the start and end of all 3 routes is the Hag's Glen.

Jovetic · 15-10-2015 10:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

you descend to the top of the Devil's Ladder and keep pressing on across Cnoc na Toinne, and keep an eye out for a cairn on the other side a few hundred metres from the summit.

A bit like Vienna, this means nothing to me

So am i right in saying go through Hags Glen, straight on for DL or right to BOSG

Then at the top try and find the zig zag descent? It will surely be busy on Sat so might ask someone at the top where the zig zag descent is. I don't really know where to go looking for it

Appreciate the advice Conor

hmmm · 15-10-2015 10:23pm

Jovetic wrote: »

Then at the top try and find the zig zag descent? It will surely be busy on Sat so might ask someone at the top where the zig zag descent is. I don't really know where to go looking for it

When you leave the top, head back towards the Devils Ladder. Walk past the start of the Devil's Ladder descent, and after climbing for a bit the ridge curves around to the left. Stick to the left and you'll see the cairn indicating the start of the zigzags. If you find yourself going downhill after passing the start of the DL descent you've gone wrong.

If the weather is bad or you've no-one to ask you're probably best off going back down the Devils Ladder to be honest.

15-10-2015 10:41pm

Jovetic wrote: »

A bit like Vienna, this means nothing to me

So am i right in saying go through Hags Glen, straight on for DL or right to BOSG

Then at the top try and find the zig zag descent? It will surely be busy on Sat so might ask someone at the top where the zig zag descent is. I don't really know where to go looking for it

Appreciate the advice Conor

Head up the Hags Glen. At the point where the river is forded (not the 2 previous bridges, this is a proper ford) head "right" and try to stick with the trail. It's faint at the start but becomes a bit clearer as it winds it's way up towards the hanging valleys - you ascend through 2 of them and come to Cummeenoughter, and at the back of that is the start of O'Sheas Gully. You will approach the summit itself from the North.

Hmmm has the descent via the Zig Zags spot on. This is south of the summit. And you go past the top of the Devils Ladder. So you have ascended one side and descended the other, whereas using the Devils Ladder and Zig Zags ultimately means approaching and leaving from the same side. So up OSG and down ZZ has benefit of getting you around more of the mountain - useful for return trips.

Pat Mustard · 15-10-2015 11:49pm

Thargor wrote: »

Eh? Ah its the tried and trusted After Hours debating strategy when someone is laughing at you, just claim you've upset them and ignore the rest!

Sorry if I bothered you by pointing out that there is sweet feck all mountain climbing in this country, just hillwalking, and extremely low risk hillwalking at that. I suppose when you're trying to cultivate a mountain man image by walking up Carantouhill 30 times then dissuading people on a bulletin board from doing the same you probably dont want to hear that.

Do please let us hear your survival tips for Kerry in late Autumn compared to Spring and Summer for the OP though Mountain Man, wear a jacket in case it gets cold? Mobile phone, water and a snack? Wow you should put that in a book before more people die. Lol

Mod:

No need for that and no need to personalise the discussion.

Here is a link to the Kerry Mountain Rescue callouts during the last five years. Quite a few relate to Carrauntoohill. Fatalities aside, the risks are clear from that alone.

I'd appreciate it if the discussion could remain civil from now on or this thread may have to be closed.

BarryD · 16-10-2015 9:40am

Jovetic wrote: »

A bit like Vienna, this means nothing to me

So am i right in saying go through Hags Glen, straight on for DL or right to BOSG

Then at the top try and find the zig zag descent? It will surely be busy on Sat so might ask someone at the top where the zig zag descent is. I don't really know where to go looking for it

Appreciate the advice Conor

Jovetic, I've just looked at the current Ordnance Survey Ireland 1:25,000 map of the Reeks - these routes you mention are clearly marked and labeled on it. The map will cost you about €12.50, hardly a fortune - go and buy it and learn how to navigate. If you can't figure out a map then my strong advice is that you go with someone who can and/or someone who knows these routes well. That's how we all learnt to get by in the first place. Have a good one

pavb2 · 17-10-2015 10:08am

What other walks are there in Killarney that might be less risky this time of year?

fits · 17-10-2015 10:11am

pavb2 wrote: »

What other walks are there in Killarney that might be less risky this time of year?

Mangerton has a well marked path to the top I believe ( never done it). Old kenmare road is nice too.

17-10-2015 10:48am

pavb2 wrote: »

What other walks are there in Killarney that might be less risky this time of year?

Mangerton, as fits mentioned. Torc and the Old Road are particularly well marked and laid out, with sleepers etc. Purple Mountain at the Gap of Dunloe is lovely too, but lots of heather on the Tomies side make it a tiring walk. Great views though. Lots of walks in the woods around Muckross Lake and Ross Island.

Halloween Jack · 18-10-2015 12:27pm

fits wrote: »

I think you need to go for a walk, or just put down the computer for a while.

I know some people who would be experienced hikers who spent a night up on Carrauntoohil. Just got lost in the mist I think and then it got dark. They phoned mountain rescue and told them they were fine and would come down in the morning. They had the right gear to stay warm enough but I dont think it was a pleasant experience all the same and can happen really easily.

Indeed, i worked with a guy who's brother fell to his death off carrauntoohil. The chap had climbed in the Alps, Andes, himalaya.... It can happen to anyone...

SomeFool · 19-10-2015 9:42pm

pavb2 wrote: »

What other walks are there in Killarney that might be less risky this time of year?

Torc, well defined path, great views. Would also second the Old Kenmare Road and Mangerton. Carrauntoohil is no more difficult really but the walk through Hags glen makes it a long day which leads to it being underestimated and tiredness is a dangerous state. You can park at the bottom of Torc and Mangerton so no walk in.

didds · 22-10-2015 11:10am

Go with a group or with someone who knows how to navigate using a map and compass. Yes, you might go down, have a great incident free walk and get away with it, but chances are it'll be cloudy with poor visibility. Why should someone out enjoying a walk have to babysit you back down off the mountain because you can't be bothered to learn or to go safely? Piaras Kelly of Kerry climbing, John Healy, Con Moriarty, Nathan Kingerley, Tony Nation etc etc all offer a guided service down there to safely experience the beauty of the hills.
Despite what others have said, there have been fatalities this and last year in the Irish hills. Wouldn't it be worth a few quid to have your first experience if the place be a positive one and learn as you enjoy it? If you do go, I hope the day is clear for you as there's no-where quite like it. If you are around Dublin, drop me a pm and I'll point out the route and the objective dangers. Make sure you are fit. It's not the rolling Wicklow hills. Bring plenty of water, snacks, first aid and appropriate clothing and footwear. It's cold up there this time of year with a biting wind chill.

Poncke · 22-10-2015 9:07pm

Wow, this thread got a life of its own. Some debate. Hopefully it is useful to some readers. I have to agree, there's hidden dangers on the Irish hills, and it could turn sour very quickly. I have experienced this myself and I can say the advice here to be prepared and make sure you know what you are doing is very valid.

One of my first big hikes was the Lug and it didnt go well. We made it out but just on pure luck. We walked up Camara hill from Fentons pub and then up to Lug. It was a clear day. Some people were coming down warning us for the low clouds and that we might get lost. We came up to the wet part with the wide river bedding, and thats where we wanted to go back. But a girl came up and she knew the Lug, so we continued with her. We ended up on the summit and then she had to go back. We walked back 5 minutes later and got lost. We followed the river bed down, but it wasnt the same trail we went up. We kept walking and at some point got worried not knowing where we would end up. But then out of nowhere a large group of hikers with a guide and GPS, so we latched on and walked down with them. The fog was so thick I ended up walking 1 meter from the cliffs before we noticed the end. Right there and then I realised that people were not exaggerating when they warned me, how people could get caught off guard and fall off the cliffs. All's well ends well, as turned out, we ended up in Glenmalure, 16km from our starting point, when the plan was to do a return walk. Seriously, if we hadnt met those guys with GPS, it would have been a very serious situation. I was soaking wet and didnt have the proper gear. My jeans were weighing at least 10 kilo from the water they soaked up. We were lucky that day and it was a massive hike, and it was great in hindsight, but we realised we were really unprepared.

So please take all advice here. I am well prepared these days when going on a hike. Once I ended up on Luggala aka Fancy Mountain in the fog once again on what seemed a clear day, but then we had a map and compass and proper clothing so it was a completely different experience and we had no issues whatsoever finding our way.

22-10-2015 9:30pm

Certainly would get a map as BarryD said. On my first trip up Carrauntoohil we had nothing and couldn't see a thing in driving rain, ended up standing at the top of what I later found out was Central Gully and we figured it must be the Devil's Ladder so went down...not advisable to descend Curved Gully in any weather but we didn't have a clue! Ended up like kids coming down stairs on our arses for 90 minutes in zero visibility, with hindsight we could have been going off the wrong side completely or been cliff bound. Just as well we had walked past the top of Curved Gully! So bought a map afterwards anyway...

fits · 22-10-2015 9:32pm

My muscles completely seized on the way down from Carauntoohil (via heavenly gates) and I was in a bad way for a week after it. I'm not the fittest in the world but not a couch potato either. And Id been doing 15 km hikes just the month before on holidays with no ill effects. It was a wonderful day but that was bad. I also lost my two big toe nails (boots obviously a smidgen small).

Its not as easy as some make out, its a proper hike/climb even if the day is clear and still.

KilOit · 23-10-2015 4:50pm

Wen't up Carrauntoohill in awful weather with low vis and horizontal rain!
took devils ladder route which was fine and then hit cloud at the top of devils ladder but knew to just turn right and keep going up, got up no bother but the issue was coming back down, thought i was going south towards devils ladder.
After 10 minutes or so we didn't recognize any of the rocks that we saw going up and got a bit panicky, starting walking a bit aimlessly and my partner nearly slipped off steep ground! got an awful fright but eventually made it back to devils ladder.
It was a wake up call for both of us so we went and did the MS1 course to be able to navigate in poor weather and just to be able to read a map and plan routes, no more shoddy google maps for navigation :pac:

Glonass · 31-10-2015 1:15am

Useful thread indeed ! Whats the easiest route to Carrauntoohil in early December? Went up there via Devil's Ladder in 2009 ONCE before and nearly got battered from falling stones during peak weekend with lots of groups in August.this time Im hoping to go Solo with 30L Backpack contains a Bivvy Bag, sleeping bag, spare layers, socks,carb rich food and drink, first aid kit, Harvey Super Walker map, compass , 2 head torches , AA Batteries, external battery for ABC Watch, phone etc.

Hoping to do fast hike wearing Trail GTX shoes and trail running minimalist waterproofs.if the weather permits might stay overnight in Bivvy somewhere at much lower altitude...also will be using public transport + walk to the start of the route.in 2009 walked from killarney to cronins yard but this time i have to use public transport to get to the area faster.has devils ladder gone bad in recent years? I have no proper climbing experience more like hill walker type.not into too much scrambling either.
The main reason in doing december is around the time of my birthday as well as coming back from injury im craving for a bit of personal resolutions. Knowledge is power so any positive or negative advice will be appreciated

01-11-2015 11:59am

Glonass wrote: »

Useful thread indeed ! Whats the easiest route to Carrauntoohil in early December?
...
Hoping to do fast hike wearing Trail GTX shoes and trail running minimalist waterproofs.

Easiest route is the Zig Zags.

Think about your shoes. Have run them in trail shoes in winter time, and think trail shoes often overlooked in favour of heavy boots for outings where boots are not needed. But in snow, in the churned up mud on Cnoc na Toinne, your socks will get wet. Which is fine for a 3 or 4 hour run when you have the showers in Cronins Yard ahead. But if hiking or up there overnight, walking around in cold snow, with wet socks, it might get uncomfortable.

Glonass · 02-11-2015 2:51am

First of all Thank You Conor ! Im planning to do Fast paced hike.plan is to use Sealskinz socks plus short gaiter and gtx trail shoe combo.and a couple of spare pair of socks.dont really want to wear heavy duty leader boots eventhough there are super durable so there is a bit of compromise on comfort.if the weather is bad i will head back down asap and head back without staying in Bivvy.but it will be there with me as an emergency shelter. cant underestimate Nature.anyway i found a gpx file of zig zags on activeme.ie wonder how accurate that is.it would be handy to have the waymarked route in my gps watch as backup.also does anyone know the current timetable of Shuttle bus that goes to Cronin's yard from killarney? looks like zigzags route start from somewhere between the lakes just before going up towards Devil's Ladder ? Visibility is my number one worry hope the weather will be great so that i can go up and down safely.

02-11-2015 8:45am

Glonass wrote: »

.anyway i found a gpx file of zig zags on activeme.ie wonder how accurate that is.it would be handy to have the waymarked route in my gps watch as backup.also does anyone know the current timetable of Shuttle bus that goes to Cronin's yard from killarney? looks like zigzags route start from somewhere between the lakes just before going up towards Devil's Ladder ? Visibility is my number one worry hope the weather will be great so that i can go up and down safely.

Don't have a GPS so no idea about activeme, but no, the Zig Zags start well after the lakes and almost in at the foot of the Devils Ladder. The Bone is the route up the Eastern Reeks that starts before the Lakes.

duckysauce · 02-11-2015 2:28pm

Glonass wrote: »

First of all Thank You Conor ! Im planning to do Fast paced hike.plan is to use Sealskinz socks plus short gaiter and gtx trail shoe combo.and a couple of spare pair of socks.dont really want to wear heavy duty leader boots eventhough there are super durable so there is a bit of compromise on comfort.if the weather is bad i will head back down asap and head back without staying in Bivvy.but it will be there with me as an emergency shelter. cant underestimate Nature.anyway i found a gpx file of zig zags on activeme.ie wonder how accurate that is.it would be handy to have the waymarked route in my gps watch as backup.also does anyone know the current timetable of Shuttle bus that goes to Cronin's yard from killarney? looks like zigzags route start from somewhere between the lakes just before going up towards Devil's Ladder ? Visibility is my number one worry hope the weather will be great so that i can go up and down safely.

I did it by the zig-zags a while back , you can download route I did from Mountainviews. http://mountainviews.ie/track/report/1517/

Glonass · 07-11-2015 2:18am

Just downloaded to use as reference.Thank you DuckySauce

Glonass · 29-11-2015 4:47am

Is there bus service between cronins yard and killarney at this time of the year? How much do taxis charge from killarney to cronins yard?

29-11-2015 3:13pm

Glonass wrote: »

Is there bus service between cronins yard and killarney at this time of the year? How much do taxis charge from killarney to cronins yard?

Not sure, if you're on Facebook they have a page and they are on it most days, so I'd say they'd be able to answer that question, I'm sure they get it all the time.

Glonass · 16-12-2015 12:42am

@DuckySauce , used your zigzags route.gpx as a backup 2 weeks ago and it's very accurate.Now I know where the start of the route is.Thanks .Still wonder why people are still using devil's Ladder.for me zigzags is not that longer than devil's ladder and much more scenic and safer than the ladder.people using ladder looked like Marmots popping out to see sunset(fun intended).

icesnowfrost · 21-12-2015 2:41am

Myself and 2 friends climbed it in June with perfect weather clear sky's and almost no mist, just a little at the top. This was our first time climbing it but we're experienced at hiking/hill walking.
from the bottom of the devils ladder to the top of the devils ladder took us aprox 50 min. We were pleased with that time. Got to the summit and took on our main meal and a cup of tea

.
I couldn't help but notice how un equipped people where with either no rucksack or nearly empty( kinda like wen you buy a new rucksack how empty it looks!), they had runners, jeans, very little water if any and not much food. No waterproofs no warm tops. We always pack enough food and water for a 24hr period even if we are only in a day hike, just incase anything happened that we can survive in comfort until rescue (if needed) or until weather permitted a safe descent. Some people might think that's extreme for ireland but you never know what can happen.
On the way down we bypassed the top of the ladder and went down the zig zags.
The whole experience was great but hard going. I'd advise anyone who is attempting the climb to make sure you have basic fitness and bring proper gear. Cronins yard is a great starting point.

Poncke · 29-12-2015 11:49pm

People should pay all damages for their nonsense

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1229/756604-weather-storm-frank/

Who goes mountain walking in this kind of weather?! Irresponsible !

Djoucer · 29-12-2015 11:57pm

Poncke wrote: »

People should pay all damages for their nonsense

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1229/756604-weather-storm-frank/

Who goes mountain walking in this kind of weather?! Irresponsible !

If you start to charge ppl for call outs, people won't call when they need it.

Advice for Carrauntoohil

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