Good article detailing Dublin's unfair funding advantage

rossie1977 · 12-02-2019 12:32pm

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

On the issue of spending, what’s killing most counties, esp Mayo, Donegal, Galway, Roscommon, is paying up to €600,000 a year in mileage to players for driving down from Dublin for training and matches.

That's true. It cost Roscommon €15,000 a week last year just to keep senior side up and running and most of that probably went on transport of players up and down for training.

Prior to last year we weren't able to field a junior side and they had to go cap in hand around the county attempting to fund the under 17 side who reached the all Ireland final in 2017.

blanch152 · 12-02-2019 12:46pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

It's the same old, same old every time the unfair advantages Dublin have are mentioned. Kilkenny won because of their own innate brilliance. They did not have any unfair advantages over the rest of the county like Dublin do. Their period of dominance was always going to be temporary.

Dublin have a massive unfair funding advantage- both centrally and from their sponsorship deals which are multiples of other counties. There is no reason the sponsorship money couldn't be pooled and dished out to ensure all counties benefit. Combine this with population advantage, playing all games at home and less of a need to emigrate and you have a perfect storm for endless Dublin dominance. If you want to see the future of the All- Ireland series, look at what happened to the Leinster championship since 2005. This will eventually happen across the country as a whole if things continue on their current trajectory. Biased, blinkered Dubs always claim it is up to other teams to "step up" but it is almost impossible to do this when the standard has been set by a team with so many unfair advantages over you. MacKenna refers to Dublin as a "financially doped" team- it's a perfect description.

The fact you can't see how all this extra money would help the "15 players on the pitch" is absolutely laughable also.

If you truly believe that all the extra money makes no difference then you wouldn't mind it being withdrawn anyway?

If you want same old, same old rubbish, you read Ewan McKenna and his sidekick Martin Breheny.

Good old-style Irish begrudgery at its best.

What they want is for kids in Dublin to be stopped playing our national games so their favourite counties can prosper. Stop the kids playing in Dublin = success for other counties.

Dublin have spent their money on widening participation. The girls, the kids with autism, the kids who are weaker, all get the same training as the ones who will go on to become inter-county players. The massive health benefits to the country cannot be understated from increasing participation rates.

Kerry have done things differently. They have spent money on training the elite kids and building centres for them. Fair play, but the Dublin way is better.

Finally, the reason McKenna goes back to 2007 for his figures is because there has been a rebalancing since 2007, and the more recent years of funding are much more balanced. You see, things are changing, but that would mean that Ewan couldn't moan as much.

blanch152 · 12-02-2019 12:49pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

You're the one ignoring the bigger picture. The fact is, by whatever measure you want to use- total funding, per capita funding etc- Dublin received and continue to receive sums of money far in excess of every other county. This is before we even factor in their money from sponsorship deals.

It accounts for a large part for their success. And it ensures the playing field is not level. There's no denying this.

I think you don't understand the words you are using. DoctaDee's post clearly shows that per capita allocation of GDOs is fair

DoctaDee wrote: »

Once again people are choosing to ignore the bigger picture and are fixated on the central council grant for Dublin.

I'll leave you with this - in 2017 all the other counties in Leinster received an additional 5.3 million in games development from the Leinster council, of which 2.3 million was spent on GPO's, . Dublin with 1.3 million has 78 GPO's, the rest of Leinster with approx 1.4 million has 79 GPO's.

Make of it what you will but shine your light a little brighter on the complete issue instead of taking the likes of McKenna as the Bible on these matters

It is about time that people stopped whinging about out-of-date figures and accepted that kids playing in Dublin deserve to be treated as well as kids playing in the rest of Leinster.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 12:58pm

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Look at the base they were coming from vs the footballers when the money started rolling in, completely daft comparison.

They are doing well at underage though and success in hurling will come in time

It could be argued that they were both coming from the same base as they targetting under age to get up.

The hurlers featured in a couple of minor finals and 1 under 21 final in the early part of this decade but they aren't showing signs of making a breakthrough, I think 2013 was their chance.

The_Honeybadger · 12-02-2019 12:58pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If you want same old, same old rubbish, you read Ewan McKenna and his sidekick Martin Breheny.l

What they want is for kids in Dublin to be stopped playing our national games so their favourite counties can prosper. Stop the kids playing in Dublin = success for other counties.

Dublin have spent their money on widening participation. The girls, the kids with autism, the kids who are weaker, all get the same training as the ones who will go on to become inter-county players. The massive health benefits to the country cannot be understated from increasing participation rates.

Kerry have done things differently. They have spent money on training the elite kids and building centres for them. Fair play, but the Dublin way is better.

Was waiting for the ‘won’t someone think of the children’ argument. And Dublin don’t train the elite kids? Pull the other one.

Reality is when there is limited funding you cut your cloth. No other county can afford the programmes Dublin have and that’s why they don’t implement them.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 1:03pm

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

So funding and professional level preparation does not impact performance? If that is really what you are claiming I don’t know what to say to you. You either don’t understand, or more likely are not willing to acknowledge the difference money makes in preparing a team in high level sports. Why do teams bother if it makes no difference?

I would say that top level prepartion has the biggest impact it doesn't have to cost a fortune it just has to be done right, having loads of money really helps preparing a team but at the end of the day it a team game 15 v 15. New Zealand rugby is a great example where a country with limited resources can get to the top of their sport and stay there.

The_Honeybadger · 12-02-2019 1:04pm

Clareman wrote: »

It could be argued that they were both coming from the same base as they targetting under age to get up.

The hurlers featured in a couple of minor finals and 1 under 21 final in the early part of this decade but they aren't showing signs of making a breakthrough, I think 2013 was their chance.

It could be argued if you are clueless yes. The base of football mid 00’s was on a different planet to hurling and still is although the gap is slowly closing. Football will probably always be no 1 but the ROI in hurling is very clear to see.

nice_guy80 · 12-02-2019 1:06pm

Clareman wrote: »

Not too long ago GAA in the capital was, at best, the third sport, major changes and investment was needed or else the GAA would be lost in Dublin, the people involved in Dublin GAA saw that changes were needed and instead of coming up with some silly PR "5 Year Plan" they put in a grass roots plan which is now coming good, it didn't happen overnight, as someone mentioned, some of the money was given by Bertie, Bertie hasn't been Taoiseach for 11 years, he hasn't been a TD for 8, the money that was put in was put in back then to set things up.

I also like to believe that if any other county came to the GAA saying that they had a plan for developing GAA in their county (not just a senior team) that they would be given funding. Throwing resources at a problem won't solve a problem, using resources correctly will.

that is ridiculous. you clearly haven't a clue about this
other counties are always looking for funding but not getting extra for different projects eg urban gaa development plans for large towns and rural development plans for areas where gaa clubs are stuggline
you must think Dublin have some sort of organisational geniuses up there that only they can come up with 'a plan'

gaffer91 · 12-02-2019 1:08pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If you want same old, same old rubbish, you read Ewan McKenna and his sidekick Martin Breheny.

Or I could just continue to read the garbage you post. There was barely a single debunked cliche you included in your argument there, congrats

blanch152 wrote: »

What they want is for kids in Dublin to be stopped playing our national games so their favourite counties can prosper. Stop the kids playing in Dublin = success for other counties.

Ah the poor little kids. It'd be awful if they had to deal with only the same amount of funding as the children from down the country sure.

blanch152 wrote: »

Finally, the reason McKenna goes back to 2007 for his figures is because there has been a rebalancing since 2007, and the more recent years of funding are much more balanced. You see, things are changing, but that would mean that Ewan couldn't moan as much.

You're aware the figures included don't include Bertie's development grants and sponsorship deals, among other things?

blanch152 wrote: »

I think you don't understand the words you are using. DoctaDee's post clearly shows that per capita allocation of GDOs is fair

.

Yes because per capita GDOs are the only barometer.

Cop on to yourself. The figures speak for themselves. Dublin are grossly overfunded compared to every other county.

blanch152 wrote: »

It is about time that people stopped whinging about out-of-date figures and accepted that kids playing in Dublin deserve to be treated as well as kids playing in the rest of Leinster.

The figures are in date. Oh great- if you agree that Dublin kids deserve to be treated as well, but no better, then you're happy for funding to be reduced massively. Glad we're in agreement.

The_Honeybadger · 12-02-2019 1:10pm

Clareman wrote: »

I would say that top level prepartion has the biggest impact it doesn't have to cost a fortune it just has to be done right, having loads of money really helps preparing a team but at the end of the day it a team game 15 v 15. New Zealand rugby is a great example where a country with limited resources can get to the top of their sport and stay there.

New Zealand are an interesting case their Rugby heritage is a huge factor and it’s really the only sport taken seriously there. I doubt their team want for anything btw, so saying limited resources might be stretching it. Ireland arguably overachieve just as much considering Rugby competes with other high level sports here.

Defunkd · 12-02-2019 1:12pm

Haven't thought too much on it but it strikes me as a numbers game.
Dublin has 1.2 million people. Get them winning and the revenue will roll in. Dublin alone has the ability to fill the coffers of the GAA. Bandwagoners, fairweather fans... it doesn't matter...once they are spending, spending, spending.

Maybe i'm being cynical but whenever money is involved it becomes the priority.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 1:13pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

You honestly haven't a clue about Gaelic Football in 2019 if you think this. Not a clue.

Fair enough, this is just a discussion not an exam on Gaelic Football knowledge.

gaffer91 wrote: »

The money helps you develop the players significantly more than you would otherwise- how can you not see this?

The players still need to be developed, why not just give every player 10k and tell them to do whatever they thing will work for them. Dublin have put in the proper structures and are reaping the rewards, there is nothing stopping other counties doing the same.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Again, if you think the extra money is no object, and makes no difference to results, then you shouldn't be opposed to it being withdrawn.

I don't care either way but I'd like GAA sports to be played and developed in every county/town in Ireland so I wouldn't like to see any county just cast out.

gaffer91 wrote: »

The massive increase in funding only started in the mid 2000s. And success followed- Leinster Dominance, followed by All Ireland dominance.

Chicken and egg scenario, did the structures lead to funding which in turn led to success or did funding lead to funding which led to success. In my opinion, Dublin County Board put structures in place, tested what was working, developed it and got funding.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Once again, you've ignored the many differences behind the causes for Dublin's success rather than Kilkenny's success, probably deliberately. I suggest you read the previous posts to help you gain some insight.

Poor Leinster championship, only need to start playing in August, massively skilled and eager squad of players, underage success feeding through, management with backing of the county board. Am I missing anything?

gaffer91 wrote: »

The same won't happen in football if things aren't changed- what's more likely is that the All Ireland will become like the Leinster championship.

Kerry are running away with the Munster Championship, Connacht is becoming more competitive by it was a 1 county show for a long time, Ulster is a slugfest. The Super 8s and backdoors suit teams like Dublin more than other counties, I think a massive overhaul of the championship will have to be done to keep it competitive.

gaffer91 wrote: »

If you're so keen to bandy about claims about Galway and Limerick can we see some concrete figures please? Even if this money does come anywhere close to Dublin, it further proves that all money should be centrally pooled and fairly distributed

The GAA is bad enough besides turning it into a communist organisation

:D:D
My local club just did a Dancing with the Stars night, I guess they should divide the procedes of the night and give every other club in Clare a cut.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Why are you so keen to defend Dublin getting way more funding than every other county?

I'm not keen on defending Dublin getting more funding, I just think it's a smoke screen for other issues and other counties should be concentrating on themselves rather than making excuses.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 1:15pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

that is ridiculous. you clearly haven't a clue about this
other counties are always looking for funding but not getting extra for different projects eg urban gaa development plans for large towns and rural development plans for areas where gaa clubs are stuggline
you must think Dublin have some sort of organisational geniuses up there that only they can come up with 'a plan'

They were able to come up with a proper plan to get sign off, some of the plans I've seen proposed are complete works of fiction, we'll invest in kids with no plan or just going to buy gear or something, clubs can get development officers part paid for by central council now but lots of clubs won't sign up for it.

TheAnalyst_ · 12-02-2019 1:16pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

All that money spent and Roscommon sitting with more points on the board.
Money doesn't buy success.

Eh, they're the most dominant team of all time.

The_Honeybadger · 12-02-2019 1:17pm

Clareman wrote: »

They were able to come up with a proper plan to get sign off, some of the plans I've seen proposed are complete works of fiction, we'll invest in kids with no plan or just going to buy gear or something, clubs can get development officers part paid for by central council now but lots of clubs won't sign up for it.

I seriously doubt you have seen or read any other plans and you are just waffling.

What plans are you talking about and what counties submitted them?

Happyilylost · 12-02-2019 1:55pm

Clareman wrote:

Limerick GAA get a blank check from JP McManus every year, Pat McDonagh is very generous with Galway GAA. Money is pooled and dished out via grants from central council but counties should be allowed promote themselves, ffs even NFL teams are allowed keep their own sponsorship revenues and they are the most co-operative league in the world.

Pat McDonagh and Supermacs are great sponsors but it is far from being close to any sort of Gravy Train. Galway are broke. And any money we do raise our officials steal it. So yes. We want free money.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 2:39pm

Happyilylost wrote: »

Pat McDonagh and Supermacs are great sponsors but it is far from being close to any sort of Gravy Train. Galway are broke. And any money we do raise our officials steal it. So yes. We want free money.

Very good point well made https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/galway-clubs-want-answers-after-damning-audit-892456.html

I guess this is the reason free money isn't just handed out, it just disappears into certain pockets, Clare has a number of people who have profitted from "plans" down through the years.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 2:41pm

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I seriously doubt you have seen or read any other plans and you are just waffling.

What plans are you talking about and what counties submitted them?

Clare had loads of development plans to develop hurling in the west and football in the east, nothing came from them but there was new cars for county board officals every year.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 2:51pm

By the way, in case anyone thinks I'm a Dublin supporter or have a vested interest in them, I'm not and I don't. I do admire their county board for identifying problems, getting a plan in place for solving them and following through on them, the fact that Dublin are strong at all age groups shows that a properly executed plan with the proper resources will work.

ToBeFrank123 · 12-02-2019 2:54pm

We will be discussing this when they win the 10 in a row or even the 15 in a row.

Maybe when they win the 20 in a row, the GAA might decide to do something to redress the balance.

Doubtful though. Its sad but the GAA/Leinster Council need Dublin winning Leinster every year to ensure full houses at Croke Park. It made sense when Croke Park was still to be paid for but not now. They also need them to go a long way in the championship and also need them to have two home games in the Super 8s. The GAA have a lot of bills but mainly the salaries of those who work in Croke Park. They need to keep the money rolling in. Sport has very little to do with it. The GAA is a business now, not a sporting organization.

ToBeFrank123 · 12-02-2019 2:56pm

Clareman wrote: »

By the way, in case anyone thinks I'm a Dublin supporter or have a vested interest in them, I'm not and I don't. I do admire their county board for identifying problems, getting a plan in place for solving them and following through on them, the fact that Dublin are strong at all age groups shows that a properly executed plan with the proper resources will work.

A lot of counties waste money. A lot of counties are very efficient and do things well, particularly I would say the Northern Counties.
Its the funding imbalance combined with the population imbalance that is the problem. Dublin have thousands of young kids coming through, trained by the best coaches. No other county can begin to compete. Some counties have only a couple hundred young men of senior county age. To suggest they could challenge Dublin if they got their "House in Order" is laughable to say the least.

TrueGael · 12-02-2019 2:56pm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DywSIm6WsAE4k5I.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmgOs-1W4AAoZm4.jpg

Anyone outside the paranoid Pale bubble defending this outrage should hang their heads in shame

Bonniedog · 12-02-2019 3:05pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

A lot of counties waste money. A lot of counties are very efficient and do things well, particularly I would say the Northern Counties.
Its the funding imbalance combined with the population imbalance that is the problem. Dublin have thousands of young kids coming through, trained by the best coaches. No other county can begin to compete. Some counties have only a couple hundred young men of senior county age. To suggest they could challenge Dublin if they got their "House in Order" is laughable to say the least.

You've never posted before about the GAA. Your only other "sport related" post was some recommendation to buy a book about Cantona.

Big GAA fan are you

The_Honeybadger · 12-02-2019 3:05pm

Clareman wrote: »

By the way, in case anyone thinks I'm a Dublin supporter or have a vested interest in them, I'm not and I don't. I do admire their county board for identifying problems, getting a plan in place for solving them and following through on them, the fact that Dublin are strong at all age groups shows that a properly executed plan with the proper resources will work.

Of course a well executed plan will work. That’s the point. The question is why is one county getting blatant and irrefutable favouritism over others in implementing their plans and programmes. If the GAA were in any way concerned about fairness every county would be getting assistance to develop and implement equivalent plans within a solid overarching framework that leaves no room for waste or any kind of blackguarding by local officials. The template is already there. And Dublin didn’t come up with their model by themselves btw it was in cooperation with the GAA and Other stakeholders in response to what they saw as a crisis in Dublin football in the 00’s. The team was struggling and soccer was taking over, in fairness the results have been phenomenal.

Coupled with Dublin’s socio economic and geographic good fortune it really is making them unstoppable at this stage and it’s not healthy for the sport long term.

I don’t believe for a second that Clare funded new cars for county board officials btw.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 3:07pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

You've never posted before about the GAA. Your only other "sport related" post was some recommendation to buy a book about Cantona.

Big GAA fan are you

I'm a numpty

Bonniedog · 12-02-2019 3:09pm

Clareman wrote: »

Very good point, well made, you have found me out that I've never posted about GAA before and have no interest in GAA, I should come back and mod here again :P

Is your name Frank?

ToBeFrank123 · 12-02-2019 3:09pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

You've never posted before about the GAA. Your only other "sport related" post was some recommendation to buy a book about Cantona.

Big GAA fan are you

Very strange post!

Whether someone posts frequently in here or not has nothing to do with whether they are a big fan or not. There are bigger fans than you who never post here.

Clareman · 12-02-2019 3:09pm

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Of course a well executed plan will work. That’s the point. The question is why is one county getting blatant and irrefutable favouritism over others in implementing their plans and programmes. If the GAA were in any way concerned about fairness every county would be getting assistance to develop and implement equivalent plans within a solid overarching framework that leaves no room for waste or any kind of blackguarding by local officials. The template is already there. And Dublin didn’t come up with their model by themselves btw it was in cooperation with the GAA and Other stakeholders in response to what they saw as a crisis in Dublin football in the 00’s. The team was struggling and soccer was taking over, in fairness the results have been phenomenal.

Coupled with Dublin’s socio economic and geographic good fortune it really is making them unstoppable at this stage and it’s not healthy for the sport long term.

I don’t believe for a second that Clare funded new cars for county board officials btw.

The GAA is 1 of the laziest, reactionary organisation that you will ever come across, rarely will they ever go out of their way to do anything proactive or to promote their games, for example go to a rugby match and see the event you are going to, you're lucky to get a song played over the intercom at a GAA match. Saying that, if you go to them with a proper plan with ideas and targets there is funding to be got

Clareman · 12-02-2019 3:10pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Is your name Frank?

I don't think Frank would ever pretend to be a Clareman, not even online :pac::pac::pac:

Clareman · 12-02-2019 3:16pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

You've never posted before about the GAA. Your only other "sport related" post was some recommendation to buy a book about Cantona.

Big GAA fan are you

Oops sorry, I thought this was directed at my apologies

Good article detailing Dublin's unfair funding advantage

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