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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭brookville


    i was dissapointed with the management for letting our half back line to get dragged out the field and and oceans of space left in front of our full back line.very hard to defend again this even our great team would of struggled but again it was obvious apart from wally up front in the first half we had no one to win primary possession.I also thought we set up today in the fowards it was easy to play against.limerick had a plan and seemed fluid where as we hadnt a clue what we were at and only making it up as we went along.It was a huge lesson for us hopefully this will be a turning point like the clare match last year.scandalous to think a county like ours we didnt really have a plan b when kelly went off the frees leahy doesnt even take them for his club or college.we struggled today handpassing and possibly the worst count to take sidelines.Its also dissapointing to see a lad of paul murphys experience still driving a ball without looking and two or 3 lads going for the same ball is terrible.
    i dont think its all doom and gloom we were the better team for parts of the first half but the 2-3 before half time and the firt 10 mins of the 2nd half was impressive from limerick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭mullinr2


    Village87 wrote: »
    3 subs by HT. Missing TJ and Richie Hogan. Who are 32 and 31 this year. Really need some hurlers to step up this year as in 2/3 years time we could be worse than today.
    We will be ok this year when we have everybody including the 2 mentioned and Buckley back, Eoin Murphy, Padraig and Wally Walsh all excellent, few lads around them will step up. But the lads 5/6 years younger than these are really struggling. That gap of no Leinster in u21 for 4/5 years is really starting to show.

    How bad are our current underage teams? I can see us going 10 years without an All Ireland if they're no good up and coming underage team that can win a minor and back it up with an U20.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Village87


    No he was running the half back line because that's where he played from. Mossy was detailed to mark him and didn't know whether to sit or push up. He was completely lost midfield.

    I've defended Murphy in here previously but thats only if he plays in the corner. He was a shambles today. How he decided repeatedly it was a good idea to follow Hayes or Dowling or Boylan 20 yards into midfield and watch puck out after puck out go over his head is beyond me. How nobody on the line thought it wasn't something that needed pointing out is worse.

    How we let O Donovan drop in as a 4th half back and played with a 3 man full forward line AGAINST THE WIND when we couldn't win a ball on the half forward line is beyond me. Just utter stupidity. If nobody on the line is going to make that call then someone on the field has to realise this and move.

    That's the concern. Todays result can be written off. We weren't going to win an All Ireland before today and we're not going to win one now. The concern is that once again we showed an inability to adapt. The second half was just 40 minutes of pure panic hurling with no plan other than lash it forward and hope for the best into a Limerick back line physically stronger and more dominant in the air than us.

    Our only plan seems to be cross field ball into the corner which at this level simply isn't good enough.

    Everyone in the crowd moaning about the short puck out as if it is the root of all evil especially after the goal despite the fact the short puck out wasn't the problem, Tommy Walsh going across his goal and hanging his full back with a shocking hand pass was the problem. The short puck out won't work for us if we play in the traditional shape and a team goes man to man on our backs as there's no overlap. Contrast Limerick in the second half playing a 2 man forward line inside the 45 with the rest of the forwards in midfield allowing spare men off the shoulder for every man who gets his hand on a ball. Constant options wherever a man turns.

    Very good analysis


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭savannahkat


    What a bunch of bed-wetters we have here. On the 34th minute Limerick were 1 point ahead not 99 points as some would have you believe here. Two goals in about a minute made it 7 points. Limerick outscored Kilkenny by 2points in the 2nd half again not by 99 points or nowhere like it. The critizism of Cody is horseshyte, who in there right minds wants Kilkenny running the 100m in under 10 seconds at this time of year only those who know SFAa about hurling. A full back line of Tommy Walsh, Conor Delaney and Enda Morrissey all babes in terms of experience did very well today as did. Maher Leahy Ryan Donnelly and Keoghan are all developing fast and thanks be to God they were not running about the field like turbo charged Ninjas, June will be plenty early for that. Get a grip apart from the two quick goals there was only 3 points between the teams


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    What a bunch of bed-wetters we have here. On the 34th minute Limerick were 1 point ahead not 99 points as some would have you believe here. Two goals in about a minute made it 7 points. Limerick outscored Kilkenny by 2points in the 2nd half again not by 99 points or nowhere like it. The critizism of Cody is horseshyte, who in there right minds wants Kilkenny running the 100m in under 10 seconds at this time of year only those who know SFAa about hurling. A full back line of Tommy Walsh, Conor Delaney and Enda Morrissey all babes in terms of experience did very well today as did. Maher Leahy Ryan Donnelly and Keoghan are all developing fast and thanks be to God they were not running about the field like turbo charged Ninjas, June will be plenty early for that. Get a grip apart from the two quick goals there was only 3 points between the teams

    I think you're living in the past.

    The idea that Cody is so much smarter than every other coach, such that they're mindlessly sending their lads out turbo-charged in February (they know SFA ?) while he is like the old bull at the top of the hill field...

    I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭savannahkat


    I think you're living in the past.

    The idea that Cody is so much smarter than every other coach, such that they're mindlessly sending their lads out turbo-charged in February (they know SFA ?) while he is like the old bull at the top of the hill field...

    I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.

    Never once did I say Cody was smarter than every one else but perhaps I should have because there are awful lot of novices posting here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,257 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    What a bunch of bed-wetters we have here. On the 34th minute Limerick were 1 point ahead not 99 points as some would have you believe here. Two goals in about a minute made it 7 points. Limerick outscored Kilkenny by 2points in the 2nd half again not by 99 points or nowhere like it. The critizism of Cody is horseshyte, who in there right minds wants Kilkenny running the 100m in under 10 seconds at this time of year only those who know SFAa about hurling. A full back line of Tommy Walsh, Conor Delaney and Enda Morrissey all babes in terms of experience did very well today as did. Maher Leahy Ryan Donnelly and Keoghan are all developing fast and thanks be to God they were not running about the field like turbo charged Ninjas, June will be plenty early for that. Get a grip apart from the two quick goals there was only 3 points between the teams

    Did you actually watch the match? :confused:

    There was a lack of workrate and intensity. Then with about 20 minutes to go it looked like the KK players had realised that the game was over. Only for Limerick completely taking it handy it could have been an annihilation.

    They were physically bullied by Limerick. And their skill level is way behind too. Tactically we were brutal as well.

    "Apart from two quick goals there was only 3 points between the team"...... You're trying to make it sound like KK only narrowly lost!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭brookville


    i actually liked the look of delaney at 3.Today and clare last sunday was a great test hopefully our own fowards can learn a bit off the oppositions movement.The only thing with this year compared to last year there is a lot of chopping and changing we havent got much of a settled team maybe thats the nature of the league this year but i think most lads predicted theres going to be up and down results one week your a great lad the next you'll never make it.Hopefully delaney is tried at 3 next week.suprised to see donnelly left corner foward maybe it was the match mid week but his better out the field. i think the rèaction like most here after a defeat goes ott but we got it wrong leaving our full back line exposed and a bit like playing wexford we know whats coming but seemed sprised or not able try counter it but looking at the highlights they had time to place the perfect pass.i think fogarty going off didnt help matters but most of the harm was done just before ht.hopefully we see a reaction against tipp two hard matches coming up


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Never once did I say Cody was smarter than every one else but perhaps I should have because there are awful lot of novices posting here.


    I didn't say everyone else, I said 'every other coach'. Get a novice at English to explain to you.

    The critizism of Cody is horseshyte, who in there right minds wants Kilkenny running the 100m in under 10 seconds at this time of year only those who know SFAa about hurling.

    So who in the Limerick set-up 'in their right minds' wanted them totally bullying us today ? Which is what they did.

    Sure it's only February for them too, so they must know SFA about hurling.

    Apart from that, it has less to do with the physical conditioning and stickwork of the players relative to other counties (and they aren't great), and a lot more to do with a lack of a clue from the sideline.

    And while these are players are supposed to be staking their place, late in the game when the honours were long decided, it was four or five Limerick forwards swarming our defender ? ? ?

    But what would they know ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Rebelside


    Limerick will be happy enuf with that win esp with now being out of the top 3 this yr. & having only one of the spine of the AI winning team in place from 3 6 8 9 11 & 14


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Village87


    Massive match in Thurlus next week now. Tipp will be up for this one after losing yesterday and Kilkenny humiliating them in the league final last year. Cody going to have to change around a few things


  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭thelostboys23


    Disappointing day yesterday think that a number of positional selections did not work. Mossy, James Maher maybe could have been switched. Donnelly isnt best suited to corner forward, Paul Murphy at half back.

    Kevin Kelly had poor game and you knew his time was up when he missed the free from around the 45 and Limerick scored from the puck out.

    In saying all that I thought we started well and had 3 points from play on the board in first few mins. We actually led 7 points to 6 I think and in the 10 mins before and after HT Limerick upped the ante and blew us away and went 2-14 to 0-7 ahead. Its what kk used to do to so many teams and the two quick goals kill teams.

    The FB line were under pressure as there was good bit of space ahead of them and would ve happy to see Conor Delaney in there again as Gillane will be a tough opponent for many a team this year. Tommy erred for 2nd goal but the short puck out put him under pressure straight away. Morrissey went off injured it seems but would rather see him out the field.

    HB line drifted out a bit and Lim seemed to keep ball away from Padraig Walsh alot. Paul Murphy not a half back in my opinion, although he wins ball his distribution is so bad. Clears long and high into forwards and very easy for linerick to defend they just bat it down and allow next man to clear it. Paddy Deegan at CB I'm still unsure of but we are lacking anyone here at min.

    Midfield wasnt great I don't think mossy worked there at all. Fogarty and Maher have potential here but Cody must see something in maher at half forward so who am I to argue. O Donovan from Limerick hurled an awful amount he always seemed to be free and waiting to receive the ball before delivering into the forwards. Fogarty injured too as some alluded to hope nit too serious.

    Half forwards again hard to say done well. Had fits and bursts of decent play especially Wally bit Maher wasnt in the game at all and Richie Leahy I don't know what to make of. Lovely hurler and scores nice points but so many come off breaking ball (another couple yesterday) he doesn't seem to get into the winning dirty ball which I think all half forward line should do.

    Full forwards not a great day but must be said the high balls delivered in constantly do not help them. In 1st few mins there was good low ball in and Billy Ryan got a nice score and couple more dangerous balls after that. Seemed like we regressed from this after and didnt help forwards at all. As said earlier poor day from Kelly. All players allowed poor displays but its seems to be alot of thrm from Kelly I think and surely his chances will run out. Donnelly is nit a corner forward and has to be half forward for me to affect the game.

    Subs hard to rate as Limerick won at ease after the 2-07 or so without reply but was good to see KK get it back from the 14 point deficit it was at one stage at least(take some positive at least).

    Overall a disappointing day but as good as Cody has been his in game subs has never been spot on. Give him a replay and he will almost always address the issues but in gane I believe has always been a weak point (one of his few I must add)of his. I don't think we have as much focus on league this year as we evidently put in to last year and ideally a quarter final would be enough as it would give an extra game before Leinster round robin begins.

    Definitely not in the Cody out camp anyway, we are in a serious period of transition and need to find a number of additional players in order to return to the top table. We are not a million miles away either and on any given day can still compete wity the best of them(may be blind loyalty also).

    Going forward I believe Buckley may not play at all this year, has a scan coming up and word from the Boro friends I talked to is he wont play and needs rest of the knee to recover. Shouldn't have played last year and made worse by doing so ive heard but sure dont we all hear these rumours all the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Topcat32


    mullinr2 wrote: »
    How bad are our current underage teams? I can see us going 10 years without an All Ireland if they're no good up and coming underage team that can win a minor and back it up with an U20.

    Interesting that you ask how bad our underage teams are rather than how good they are.

    I think our minor teams have been quite good since 2013 onwards after 2011 and 2012 when they were really poor. The trouble is they just havent developed as hoped at all from 18 onwards, I think we are seeing the impact of the collages in Limerick on the development of Clare and Limerick players.


  • Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭babyjesus14


    mullinr2 wrote: »
    How bad are our current underage teams? I can see us going 10 years without an All Ireland if they're no good up and coming underage team that can win a minor and back it up with an U20.

    When you say current do you mean this year's teams? This year's minors are not a vintage group will be doing well to get to the All Ireland series ie reach a Leinster final. The under 20's are a very strong group if they have everyone available. Four of them are/will be part of the Senior set up (when club commitments finish) Adrian Mullen, Evan Shefflin, Michael Carey and Niall Brassil. With the new guidelines they can't play Championship in both so it will be interesting to see how that pans out. With them they won't be far off without them they will struggle. Galway will be the team to beat in that grade with Cork also very strong.

    If you are talking our teams in recent years, we were in last year's minor final, the previous year we lost an All Ireland semi by a point to the eventual winners having played the last 10 minutes with 14 men after getting one of our best players sent off. We were also in the under 21 final two years ago though our overall record in that grade hasn't been good having won one of the last six Leinsters.

    Predicting that we won't win an All Ireland for 10 years is a brave move, I find it very difficult to predict what is going to happen next weekend. Would you have predicted two years ago that Limerick would be the standout team in 2019?


  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Cornerback1


    I was very disappointed with KK yesterday. At times it looked as if Limerick were playing against 13 men. Two ways to look at that - Limerick's movement etc. was excellent or Kilkenny had no structure or were not capable of dealing with it. Personally I think it was a bit of both.

    Limerick are an excellent team and the biggest plus they have is their panel. Kiely can freshen it up every game and they don't seem to have any week links. Competition for places is good. We don't have that.


    I think tactically we are way off the pace. We can't react to how teams move or for that matter, we don't have the same movment ourselves. Very static. Players roam all over the field now and you don't know who is picking who up. We couldn't put 2 passes together or handpass to a player 10yds away. Limerick always had a man coming off the shoulder to support the player in possession. They are comfortable with that style. Our lads seemed to pass the sliotar and think that was their work done, instead of giving another option. Limerick worked a score from half back with about 5 snappy handpasses and bang over the bar.

    Our delivery was very poor to the forwards also in comparsion to Limericks. Murphy beat a few high balls into the full back line - meat and drink for their 2-4. Ate them up all day and started attack after attack for Limerick. Look at the ball Gillane was getting - bouncing ball out in front for him to attack and turn either side. They gave him ball that was favourable to their forwards - ours was the hit and hope and maybe try and win it. Surely in training, someone in management or the forwards would say - give us decent ball in, not hail marys! Would they not say to the backs etc. "I'm a forward, make it easier for me to win the ball. Give the advantage to me". Is this ever discussed???


    At this level, you need a 9/10 freetaker. Kelly is a confidence player. A poor start and the head goes down. We have nobody who can tip over a free from the half back area. Why did Scruff not hit the 2 frees over near the stand side in the second half with the wind behind him?


    KK lads never put in a big hit all day - too nice. Second half was a training session for Limerick.

    Hopefully it was a one off and it's out of the system!


  • Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭babyjesus14


    Topcat32 wrote: »
    Interesting that you ask how bad our underage teams are rather than how good they are.

    I think our minor teams have been quite good since 2013 onwards after 2011 and 2012 when they were really poor. The trouble is they just havent developed as hoped at all from 18 onwards, I think we are seeing the impact of the collages in Limerick on the development of Clare and Limerick players.

    It's a very valid point about the minor teams of '11 and '12, all of them turn 25 and 26 this year and while a number of them have been tried out Kevin Kelly, Conor O'Shea, Enda Morrissey, Chris Bolger, Rob Lennon, Conor Martin, Diarmuid Cody none of them have established themselves as first teamers. Hence the reason we have to delve a little deeper and give game time to a lot of lads in the 20 to 22 age bracket. So people are going to have to be a little patient.


  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭droppingball


    In fairness to Paddy Deegan he does his best to organise things at centre back, if you watch him he is communicating with his half backs and covering as best he can.

    He tries to do the right thing with the ball and always shows for the short pass to give lads under pressure an option.

    I think he could grow in to a good centre back but I feel Buckley would get back to help the full back line more so hopefully he can get back.

    On Conor Delaney he picked up gillane for large portions of the match and with all the space and the quality of ball that was put on a plate for gillane he managed fairly well. Due to the quality of the ball and maybe a difference in pace between himself and gillane he wasn't competing to win the ball first time but once gillane had it delaney stayed goal side shepherded as best he could. Delaney thinks like a full back, definitely like to see him and Lawler get more game time there.

    Also I thought Fergal Horgan did a great job, think he best referee in the country by considerable margin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Village87


    A point i brought up here many times before, Kilkenny just don't seem to have the skill levels of other teams. Without naming names a lot of Kilkenny hurlers would struggle with the running style that Limerick can bring to a game when needed. Kilkenny lads seem to panic on the ball, cant break a tackle and then hand pass in desperation then, first touch is ,off some are very slow striking. Padraig Walsh can vary his game, go short, go long, solo and draw the man when needed, most others just way off that level. Limerick and other teams can do this at there ease


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Village87


    In fairness to Paddy Deegan he does his best to organise things at centre back, if you watch him he is communicating with his half backs and covering as best he can.

    He tries to do the right thing with the ball and always shows for the short pass to give lads under pressure an option.

    I think he could grow in to a good centre back but I feel Buckley would get back to help the full back line more so hopefully he can get back.

    On Conor Delaney he picked up gillane for large portions of the match and with all the space and the quality of ball that was put on a plate for gillane he managed fairly well. Due to the quality of the ball and maybe a difference in pace between himself and gillane he wasn't competing to win the ball first time but once gillane had it delaney stayed goal side shepherded as best he could. Delaney thinks like a full back, definitely like to see him and Lawler get more game time there.

    Also I thought Fergal Horgan did a great job, think he best referee in the country by considerable margin.

    Paddy Deegan was terrible yesterday, trouble clearing the ball, didnt know weather to follow or hold the centre, left an ocean of space behind him, poor in the air and wasnt working with his midfielders. Padraig Walsh should be centre back, teams cant avoid him there


  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭droppingball


    Village87 wrote: »
    Paddy Deegan was terrible yesterday, trouble clearing the ball, didnt know weather to follow or hold the centre, left an ocean of space behind him, poor in the air and wasnt working with his midfielders. Padraig Walsh should be centre back, teams cant avoid him there


    Padraig loves to go on the burst forward, playing him at 6 would restrict him as much as playing at 3. Especially when you wouldn't play fogarty (Our only defensive minded midfielder) to cover if padraig went forward.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭JJs Left Hand


    Thought Deegan was very good for the first 20/25 mins yesterday myself. Then it all went to pot for everyone. As droppingball said above he's an excellent communicator and it's telling that it's him Eoin Murphy talks to more than anyone when trying to organise the defence.

    Thought PW was very very rusty.

    To clarify my earlier post I'm not saying Cody should go I just want someone on the line to react to what's happening in front of them. I also don't think our players are all useless. I actually like every player who lined up yesterday and feel that with a few positional and tactical tweaks yesterday would have been nowhere near as bad as it ended up. The disappointment was that no-one stood up as a leader and said this is not working. I want Wally to turn around in the first half to his full forward line and say one of ye ****ers get out here and stay out here. I want Eoin Murphy to go out to Paul Murphy and say Paul stay on the 45 yard line the ball is going straight over your head every time. I want Paul Murphy to tell James Maher to drop back to our 65 yard line and let Billy Ryan cover the corner and half back on the puck outs.

    React to whats happening and try to change it. I don't mind if we're beaten by a better team if we're at least trying to do the right thing. I didn't see that yesterday.

    With regards the physicallity thing this Limerick squad have been trained as an intercounty squad since they were 16 with all the S&C to back that up behind them. We're bringing lads in as intercounty players in dribs and drabs over the last few years so it's going to take them a few years to build up to that level.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 157 ✭✭Hawkeye6


    Three rounds of the League gone. Kilkenny beat Cork easily, lost by one point to Clare in the apparent “fortress” called Ennis, well beaten by the current All-Ireland Champions. Fourth in the table, quarter-final position! Very similar to 2018 when Kilkenny won the National League. But The Usual Suspects are smirking again after yesterday, calling for the management team to go. It’s a broken record at this stage if something goes wrong. Last year it was the get Padraig out of full back. Interestingly none of them have commented on Padraig’s performance out of full back yesterday. Not a mention of his contribution to the first Limerick goal and lack of recovery. But look I like Padraig and I don’t like hammering any individual, but just highlighting the thought process of the Usual Suspects. You won’t see them having a go at the full back because they put so much air into getting the last lad out, when maybe there was some merit keeping him there…

    Anyway it is impossible to defend the management team against the usual suspects. They have their mind made up. But to be fair everyone even the management team would be impressed with Limerick yesterday. Their sweeping moves. Their work rate. Their off the shoulder support play. Their swarm defending. Their ability to get up to 5 lads in a line from full back to midfield. Their ability to then isolate their classy forwards. Their superb long range striking. Their football style hand based tackling. Their handpassing. How many handpasses did they execute, especially in the backs? Positions really don’t matter to them, other than the goalie. Worthy champions, to be fair. As we well know in Kilkenny, the champions set the bar and that is the bar now. And despite all that, it was two basic mistakes at the wrong time that led to the goals that changed the game having done very well against the wind.

    Some said we could not catch high ball. I saw Michael Carey on his debut catch a great ball. Also Tommy Walsh although subsequently hooked, John Donnelly and of course Wally in the first half, plenty. I could go through all the skills but I think if you review the match, the skills with the exception of handpass was on a par with Limerick. But I will be accused of rose tinted glasses, so I will mention two areas that are of growing concern and neither to do with the Management team. In my opinion the management team is working hard to get our players to play an inter-county game that has changed. A game like Limerick play, but the players are not used to playing that type of game. For example, RTE highlighted Paul Murphy with a ball and showed absolutely zero support movement from Enda Morrissey. Why?

    Think back to our club championship last year. It was poor. Ballyhale Shamrocks who should win the All-Ireland were miles and miles ahead of everyone else in terms of quality. The quality of senior was so poor, people were struggling to suggest players to bring into the inter-county setup. 8 of the starting team yesterday (which people thought was good team on Friday) played in the Intermediate Club Championship in 2018! Over half! (Used to be almost all senior clubs one time). Now that I’ve highlighted it maybe people will draw their own conclusions on this. My thoughts are simple, our club coaches are stuck in the noughties when we were the standard setters. It was a time when our club game and county game was pretty much the same. The same coaches, many of whom are moving from club to club like premiership managers are stuck in that time warp. Many getting huge money too! (Discussion for another time). How many of you can say your Own club is playing the type of game that would give a player a good foundation to become an inter-county hurler today? Honestly? Outside Ballyhale that is. The city clubs have monopolised Roinn A underage hurling for the past 20 years yet the three clubs between them have only won the same amount of seniors as Ballyhale in that time. All our clubs from Junior to Senior need to look at the adult management team setups and appointments, how they are selected and what is their philosophy. Anyone who is paid should be rigorously interviewed and appraised. There are too many stuck in their ways. For example, I am reliably informed, no more than a dozen coaches from Kilkenny attend the national coaching conference each year where there is opportunities to learn from other coaches from other counties and other sports, not just the lads up the road who is doing the same as you anyway. The club management setups are where the real arrogance has set in and they think they know it all. It is difficult to expect the county management teams, both senior and underage to fix their stubborn arrogance and lack of vision, especially the underage that get so little time with them in Kilkenny.

    Secondly, and again its arrogance, is the lip service played to football by the Clubs. Only 26 Clubs entered adult football this year. Already there has been a litany of walk overs. Yet if you scroll back up to the description of Limerick playing style (assuming you agree and agree it’s the bar). It’s mainly football style! That leaves you two choices, you play more football to get used to the movement, support play and handpassing concept or you coach it through hurling. As a player, I would have enjoyed playing football and learning it naturally than trying to coach or be coached through hurling. It’s not easy coach movement in hurling and the abandonment of set positions. Our club managements don’t think we need football at all. They think they can do it the way they have always done it. They will say it will kill traditional hurling. Which would prefer getting beat playing traditionally or winning playing a game based on football fundamentals? Mullinavat are one club who are punching way above their weight at senior hurling based on the underage players they have produced over the last decade. They are genuinely a dual club! Worth considering???

    Of course, the usual suspects will point to Ballyhale Shamrocks not entering football this year. Ballyhale are always an exception over the last two decades. Nobody in Kilkenny can compare to them. The same usual suspects are already suggesting a replacement for Brian Cody in Henry Shefflin (I’m assuming this is who they mean. The media are doing enough talk too). I would be more interested in the guy(s) who developed the squad for Henry. Let’s remember in 2017, Ballyhale won an Under-21A with a young team who had won nothing previously and without players considered here to be huge inter-county prospects. To me it was the most significant victory in recent Kilkenny club history. A foundation to what could well be a huge period of dominance. Henry was handed a squad. How would he do transitioning a squad? The usual suspects always say anyone could have managed Kilkenny from 2006 to 2013. But Cody has transitioned many teams over a 20 year reign. Up to now virtually seamlessly. Could Henry do it? We don’t know. There is no evidence yet.

    We are still National League champions and still in a quarter final position. Lets’ enjoy the ride and see how it goes, something the usual suspects can’t seem to do. We’ll all learn along the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭mullinr2


    What a bunch of bed-wetters we have here. On the 34th minute Limerick were 1 point ahead not 99 points as some would have you believe here. Two goals in about a minute made it 7 points. Limerick outscored Kilkenny by 2points in the 2nd half again not by 99 points or nowhere like it. The critizism of Cody is horseshyte, who in there right minds wants Kilkenny running the 100m in under 10 seconds at this time of year only those who know SFAa about hurling. A full back line of Tommy Walsh, Conor Delaney and Enda Morrissey all babes in terms of experience did very well today as did. Maher Leahy Ryan Donnelly and Keoghan are all developing fast and thanks be to God they were not running about the field like turbo charged Ninjas, June will be plenty early for that. Get a grip apart from the two quick goals there was only 3 points between the teams

    You are living in the past man. That's what our great kk team use to do to teams. Teams would be in the match one minute and than bang, kk would hit them for a couple of goals and a few points. Game over. That's what Limerick did yesterday. Kk had no answer. As Eddie Brennan said last night on the Sunday Game, kk should have kept going with the short puck outs, instead of launching it down to Limericks dominant backs. They did the same against Clare. That's Cody fault.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 157 ✭✭Hawkeye6


    mullinr2 wrote: »
    We do have a natural successor waiting in the wings. We all know who I'm talking about. I think he would get more out of our current players. Let's wait and see.

    I'm interested in who you talking.
    I have an assumption as you will see from my above post but I could easily be wrong.
    If my assumption is correct, what evidence do you base that he would get more out of our current players?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Village87


    Hawkeye6 wrote: »
    I'm interested in who you talking.
    I have an assumption as you will see from my above post but I could easily be wrong.
    If my assumption is correct, what evidence do you base that he would get more out of our current players?

    Take out the lads who are missing, they are older players who have had success with Kilkenny in the past and underage TJ, Buckley, Colin Fennelly etc. From ages 27yo and under the players have had very little success at u21 and it is showing, Wexford,Dublin & Westmeath have beaten this core of Kilkenny team at u21 and it is just natural progression at where we are at. Im just hoping the crop of 21s and under are better than the crop 5/6 years older than them, if not we are in trouble.


  • Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Topcat32


    Village87 wrote: »
    Take out the lads who are missing, they are older players who have had success with Kilkenny in the past and underage TJ, Buckley, Colin Fennelly etc. From ages 27yo and under the players have had very little success at u21 and it is showing, Wexford,Dublin & Westmeath have beaten this core of Kilkenny team at u21 and it is just natural progression at where we are at. Im just hoping the crop of 21s and under are better than the crop 5/6 years older than them, if not we are in trouble.

    But then you have to add in that we have won 2 minor all Irelands this decade, Walter Walsh, Ger Aylward, Cillian Buckley and Padraig Walsh were on an under 21 team that beat a very strong Galway team, we have been beaten narrowly on a number of occasions by the eventual minor winners, certainly not the same level of talent as the previous decade but I think we should be doing better at under 21 upwards based on performances at the earlier age groups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭therealdonster


    Disappointing day yesterday think that a number of positional selections did not work. Mossy, James Maher maybe could have been switched. Donnelly isnt best suited to corner forward, Paul Murphy at half back.

    Kevin Kelly had poor game and you knew his time was up when he missed the free from around the 45 and Limerick scored from the puck out.

    In saying all that I thought we started well and had 3 points from play on the board in first few mins. We actually led 7 points to 6 I think and in the 10 mins before and after HT Limerick upped the ante and blew us away and went 2-14 to 0-7 ahead. Its what kk used to do to so many teams and the two quick goals kill teams.

    The FB line were under pressure as there was good bit of space ahead of them and would ve happy to see Conor Delaney in there again as Gillane will be a tough opponent for many a team this year. Tommy erred for 2nd goal but the short puck out put him under pressure straight away. Morrissey went off injured it seems but would rather see him out the field.

    HB line drifted out a bit and Lim seemed to keep ball away from Padraig Walsh alot. Paul Murphy not a half back in my opinion, although he wins ball his distribution is so bad. Clears long and high into forwards and very easy for linerick to defend they just bat it down and allow next man to clear it. Paddy Deegan at CB I'm still unsure of but we are lacking anyone here at min.

    Midfield wasnt great I don't think mossy worked there at all. Fogarty and Maher have potential here but Cody must see something in maher at half forward so who am I to argue. O Donovan from Limerick hurled an awful amount he always seemed to be free and waiting to receive the ball before delivering into the forwards. Fogarty injured too as some alluded to hope nit too serious.

    Half forwards again hard to say done well. Had fits and bursts of decent play especially Wally bit Maher wasnt in the game at all and Richie Leahy I don't know what to make of. Lovely hurler and scores nice points but so many come off breaking ball (another couple yesterday) he doesn't seem to get into the winning dirty ball which I think all half forward line should do.

    Full forwards not a great day but must be said the high balls delivered in constantly do not help them. In 1st few mins there was good low ball in and Billy Ryan got a nice score and couple more dangerous balls after that. Seemed like we regressed from this after and didnt help forwards at all. As said earlier poor day from Kelly. All players allowed poor displays but its seems to be alot of thrm from Kelly I think and surely his chances will run out. Donnelly is nit a corner forward and has to be half forward for me to affect the game.

    Subs hard to rate as Limerick won at ease after the 2-07 or so without reply but was good to see KK get it back from the 14 point deficit it was at one stage at least(take some positive at least).

    Overall a disappointing day but as good as Cody has been his in game subs has never been spot on. Give him a replay and he will almost always address the issues but in gane I believe has always been a weak point (one of his few I must add)of his. I don't think we have as much focus on league this year as we evidently put in to last year and ideally a quarter final would be enough as it would give an extra game before Leinster round robin begins.

    Definitely not in the Cody out camp anyway, we are in a serious period of transition and need to find a number of additional players in order to return to the top table. We are not a million miles away either and on any given day can still compete wity the best of them(may be blind loyalty also).

    Going forward I believe Buckley may not play at all this year, has a scan coming up and word from the Boro friends I talked to is he wont play and needs rest of the knee to recover. Shouldn't have played last year and made worse by doing so ive heard but sure dont we all hear these rumours all the time.

    Kelly was injured prior to taking the last free. He signalled to the line before taking it and they took him off after it....He pointed to his groin area....


  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭mullinr2


    Hawkeye6 wrote: »
    I'm interested in who you talking.
    I have an assumption as you will see from my above post but I could easily be wrong.
    If my assumption is correct, what evidence do you base that he would get more out of our current players?

    Yes you are correct on your assumption. I think if we don't improve from the quarter stage I think Cody should leave. Who should replace the greatest manager? It has to be the King.
    Cody is like an old teacher stuck in his ways and methodology. Henry would bring in fresh ideas and understands the modern game. He is anatural leader.
    If Cody left after this year, who would you suggest?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    mullinr2 wrote: »
    Yes you are correct on your assumption. I think if we don't improve from the quarter stage I think Cody should leave. Who should replace the greatest manager? It has to be the King.
    Cody is like an old teacher stuck in his ways and methodology. Henry would bring in fresh ideas and understands the modern game. He is anatural leader.
    If Cody left after this year, who would you suggest?

    Depending on how he evaluates the squad and prospects, and indeed Cody's legacy, Henry might not want to walk into that shadow.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭kilkennyboy


    mullinr2 wrote: »
    Yes you are correct on your assumption. I think if we don't improve from the quarter stage I think Cody should leave. Who should replace the greatest manager? It has to be the King.
    Cody is like an old teacher stuck in his ways and methodology. Henry would bring in fresh ideas and understands the modern game. He is anatural leader.
    If Cody left after this year, who would you suggest?

    Why in the name of God would Henry take the Kilkenny job now.he has a team of young guys who have just put back to back u21.tj still unplayable at club level. They could go and put 4 or 5 kk championship together and a few paddys
    Day outings. His chance will come but he is a shamrocks man first.


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