Ford Transit conversion to camper MKII

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 12:41pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

the old van

Great thread Mr Justice, have been following sporadically for a while, just spotted this though - have you still got it? Hardly breaking it for parts?

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 1:02pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

Great thread Mr Justice, have been following sporadically for a while, just spotted this though - have you still got it? Hardly breaking it for parts?

Yes and yes.

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 1:07pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Yes and yes.

Super !

I'm pretty sure we're not local to each other so I will send you a PM when things free up a little bit if that's ok.

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 1:26pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

Super !

I'm pretty sure we're not local to each other so I will send you a PM when things free up a little bit if that's ok.

No worries. It's not going anywhere for a while.

What are you looking for out of curiosity?

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 1:43pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

No worries. It's not going anywhere for a while.

What are you looking for out of curiosity?

Mostly little things - if you would be willing to part with them of course - the rubber strip over the joint from the hightop to the top of the cab, the blower controls & wiring, washer bottle and the wiring connector for it, possibly both door cards if in better nick than my own. step covers - (if it has them)

And also possibly the engine, depending on the exact model & condition..

Here's my lady, not a jumbo like yours but a regular lwb hightop 100L

25-02-2021 2:28pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

What do you mean by PE?

Protective Earth it's the official sparky term for the AC circuit earth.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Is this the one you're referring to?

The inverter output MCB it'll never do anything. You can usually rely on the inverters overload protection and/or DC input fuse instead.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

So I should tie the neutral bus bar that's upstream of the MCB on the right to the chassis earth?

I make a green earth bus and a black DC ground bus. I link the two with a wire. I connect the inverter neutral to the earth bus.

You can run a chassis earth or the DC is already that in a black jacket instead of green so linking the bus bars is all you need to do to earth the chassis.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

IE, Red or Yellow? (To be fair, I've no connection to the bus bar atm, just straight into the MCB (yellow)

Close as you can to your no. "13"

Yellow will trip the RCBO and the Shore RCD.
It has to be upstream of the inverter RCBO and isolated from shore power.

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 2:41pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

Mostly little things - if you would be willing to part with them of course - the rubber strip over the joint from the hightop to the top of the cab, the blower controls & wiring, washer bottle and the wiring connector for it, possibly both door cards if in better nick than my own. step covers - (if it has them)

And also possibly the engine, depending on the exact model & condition..

Here's my lady, not a jumbo like yours but a regular lwb hightop 100L

I'll part with the whole thing :pac::pac::pac:.

By step covers you mean the plastic ones in the front doors? If so, I have them
Have everything else you want too.

It's a 2.5D straight banana engine. Bulletproof and even now will start without a problem, or it would if the starter wasn't seized. Put it this way - If I give it a tug with a tractor and put a battery into it it'll start without an issue. I've always been told that the van will long fall apart before that engine fails...

Guess what happened?

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 3:21pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I'll part with the whole thing :pac::pac::pac:.

By step covers you mean the plastic ones in the front doors? If so, I have them
Have everything else you want too.

It's a 2.5D straight banana engine. Bulletproof and even now will start without a problem, or it would if the starter wasn't seized. Put it this way - If I give it a tug with a tractor and put a battery into it it'll start without an issue. I've always been told that the van will long fall apart before that engine fails...

Guess what happened?

I'd love to take the whole thing, storage is my bother.

Brilliant, if you could keep the covers and bits for me I will for sure take them.

Brilliant on the engine, my goal is to overhaul and turbo convert a second engine while trundling on with the current banana lump in the meantime - hopefully we can discuss in person

I'm going to guess it fell apart? :pac:

Mine did too, it got a lot of new metal - sorry for the photo highjackings :pac:

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 3:26pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

I'd love to take the whole thing, storage is my bother.

Brilliant, if you could keep the covers and bits for me I will for sure take them.

Brilliant on the engine, my goal is to overhaul and turbo convert a second engine while trundling on with the current banana lump in the meantime - hopefully we can discuss in person

I'm going to guess it fell apart? :pac:

Top marks. Tin worm is this van's downfall

25-02-2021 5:29pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I plugged in the inverter supply and I got 240 out from the sockets mcb.
I plugged in shore power and as you can see the contactor is energised. There is still 240 to the sockets but now fed from shore and not the inverter feed. It seems to be the job, but I can't fully test it since I am sans inverter at the moment.

Check that you don't have shore power at the inverter output when connected to shore & that the pins of the shore power lead aren't live (from inverter) when shore is disconnected.

Buford T Justice · 26-02-2021 12:19am

Added, or cut to fit should I say the bed rails in the back of the van. They're not fixed in since they'd be a pain if they were.

I added the first wall piece for the bathroom wall but I stopped at moving forward since I may be making the bathroom larger and bringing the seats a bit forward.

I've ordered a new sink / cooker combo and they've delays in orders atm. I'm expecting them to arrive towards the end of next week so i can then do some mock layout etc..

Also started insulating the roof while I was at it. I don't know what I was thinking about when I was cutting out the grooves for the cables. Seems a bit pointless really. Anyhow, there you go.

colm_mcm · 26-02-2021 12:22am

I think we have the same bed rails!

Your bed recesses are great. How much width does that give you?

Buford T Justice · 26-02-2021 8:33pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think we have the same bed rails!

Your bed recesses are great. How much width does that give you?

Just shy of a full double bed. I think. I'll measure it when I'm back at it, buy I do get an extra 4 inches back

SirLiam - I've been studying the chat around the electrical stuff and I've put together a todo. How does this sound?

Remove the double pole mcb that's the input for the inverter and go direct to the RCBO instead
neutral out of the inverter to the earth of the van (chassis), most likely at the output point of the RCBO above
Earth output & body of inverter to van chassis
Earth the consumer unit to the van chassis

What's the benefit of the delay timer? I don't see what the difference would be if you energised the coil when shore power is connected or 1 second after. (then again, I'm not an electrician)

Check for continuity between live and van shell & neutral and van shell too with the system unpowered. Should be neither if you're floating earth.

Are you referring to the final 240 supply feeding to the sockets to check?

When Shore is live, check for no pwoer at the inverter pins
When inverter is live, check for no power at shore pins

Buford T Justice · 27-02-2021 8:15pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think we have the same bed rails!

Your bed recesses are great. How much width does that give you?

I get 1.85 meters between the bed recesses.

28-02-2021 11:15am

I've been licking my wounds. I'd another €2.5k inverter sh1t the bed.. :eek:
sigh...

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Remove the double pole mcb that's the input for the inverter and go direct to the RCBO instead

You can't protect against overcurrent on an inverter output. They can't supply the power...it's not like the grid where a short circuit has the ESB Network to throw at the circuit breaker.
Earth leakage is all you need. RCBO, RCD..whichever.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

neutral out of the inverter to the earth of the van (chassis), most likely at the output point of the RCBO above

Earth to the neutral of the generator upstream of the RCD. In this case, the inverter. The earth is connected to the van chassis but that's further downstream and tangental.
You're making a fault path that will create an imbalance on the RCD and enable it to trip if there's an issue.
Shore power will already be neutralized so make sure your inverter neutralisation point is exclusive to inverter operation ie. upstream of the changeover contactor.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Earth output & body of inverter to van chassis
Earth the consumer unit to the van chassis

When you say van chassis it ought to be the earth bus. The chassis and all metalwork with a mains appliances are connected to that earth bus.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

What's the benefit of the delay timer?

Gauranteed break before make. It stops you creating 400v from contact arcs in places you don't want.

Quote:
Check for continuity between live and van shell & neutral and van shell too with the system unpowered. Should be neither if you're floating earth.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Are you referring to the final 240 supply feeding to the sockets to check?

You checked you have mains and inverter at the outputs.
You also need to check that you don't have inverter and mains at their counterparts inputs.

ie. no mains at the inverter output upstream of the changover and no inverter at the EHU pins upstream of the contactor.

Buford T Justice · 28-02-2021 7:05pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I've been licking my wounds. I'd another €2.5k inverter sh1t the bed.. :eek:
sigh...

Ouch - I know that feeling, albeit on a much less expensive scale

Gauranteed break before make. It stops you creating 400v from contact arcs in places you don't want.

So the delay timer should be on the shore live into the changeover unit and not the coil?

Earth to the neutral of the generator upstream of the RCD. In this case, the inverter. The earth is connected to the van chassis but that's further downstream and tangental.
You're making a fault path that will create an imbalance on the RCD and enable it to trip if there's an issue.
Shore power will already be neutralized so make sure your inverter neutralisation point is exclusive to inverter operation ie. upstream of the changeover contactor.

Any concern with the fact that the neutrals from both supplies are tied together upstream of the contactor? (red circle in last diagram)?

You checked you have mains and inverter at the outputs.
You also need to check that you don't have inverter and mains at their counterparts inputs.

ie. no mains at the inverter output upstream of the changover and no inverter at the EHU pins upstream of the contactor.

I did check this already, as I know that this would be very bad, and it seems right. I've ordered those thermisters from RS, and I couldn't justify spending 4 quid online so I added a tester to it as well which can help.

I found an old 500w inverter in the shed that I'll be able to use to test this system fully. Just wanted to have a list of the things to do really.

28-02-2021 10:37pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Ouch - I know that feeling, albeit on a much less expensive scale

I paid a lot less for it. There's a replacement on the way.

Dunno what happened I'm chatting to the manufacturer. It died while synchronising & backfeeding the grid...certain death if it misses a beat at 50hz by 90° phase angle.

feckin yolk ate my hydronic system...:mad:

Buford T Justice wrote: »

So the delay timer should be on the shore live into the changeover unit and not the coil?

Do it on the coil it'll live longer and be lower current so cheaper.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Any concern with the fact that the neutrals from both supplies are tied together upstream of the contactor? (red circle in last diagram)?

Yurp. Don't. That'll trip the shore power.
You'll have two neutralisation points if you do that. One on the shore supply upstream shore RCD and one at the inverter.

I generally don't share neutrals with power sources...just loads.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I did check this already, as I know that this would be very bad, and it seems right. I've ordered those thermisters from RS, and I couldn't justify spending 4 quid online so I added a tester to it as well which can help.

They're a disaster since Brexit. If it's on backorder it'll be weeks or months longer than they say. Farnell are shipping from Germany. RS are still shipping via the Uk..."local distributor" me ar$e.

Buford T Justice · 28-02-2021 11:24pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Yurp. Don't. That'll trip the shore power.
You'll have two neutralisation points if you do that. One on the shore supply upstream shore RCD and one at the inverter.

I generally don't share neutrals with power sources...just loads.

I'm not sure as to how I can do this then. Out of the changeover I have two lives which are joined and two neutrals which are joined to feed into the single mcb for the sockets supply.

Not withstanding everything else, I should earth the body of the inverter to the neutral of the inverter supply
upstream of the mcb, but this will trip the shore power.

They're a disaster since Brexit. If it's on backorder it'll be weeks or months longer than they say. Farnell are shipping from Germany. RS are still shipping via the Uk..."local distributor" me ar$e.

I believe everything I ordered was in stock, but then again I ordered something from farnell too which was in stock that's now magically on backorder

01-03-2021 5:31am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Any concern with the fact that the neutrals from both supplies are tied together upstream of the contactor? (red circle in last diagram)?

That's downstream. Bueno!

01-03-2021 5:36am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Not withstanding everything else, I should earth the body of the inverter to the neutral of the inverter supply
upstream of the mcb, but this will trip the shore power.

Inverter Eath linked to Inverter ground and Inverter chassis and Inverter neutral and earth bus, therefore, vehicle chassis! Clear as mud? It won't trip.

Buford T Justice · 01-03-2021 10:28am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Inverter Eath linked to Inverter ground and Inverter chassis and Inverter neutral and earth bus, therefore, vehicle chassis! Clear as mud? It won't trip.

Completely :pac::pac::pac:

01-03-2021 4:03pm

To be honest I've never seen anyone else do it right. Most people convince themselves it's too complicated to bother with and compromise safety. I'll draw it later.

Most vans can have an inverter live-earth fault run unflagged.

Buford T Justice · 01-03-2021 4:13pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

To be honest I've never seen anyone else do it right. Most people convince themselves it's too complicated to bother with and compromise safety. I'll draw it later.

Most vans can have an inverter live-earth fault run unflagged.

Appreciate it.

I've come too far at this point, I want to do it once and do it right.
I ordered those terminals to replace my busbars too. They'll be used to feed the inverter once I get my mits on one

01-03-2021 4:39pm

This is the result we are looking for with DC protection also.

I just spent €800 on replacement inverter smoke. :rolleyes:
Anyone wanna buy a 20kg boat anchor? I have a selection..:(

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Appreciate it.
I ordered those terminals to replace my busbars too.

These are more suitable.
That style in the picture are more single output like for connecting the Engine battery in the house electrics distribution.

I must start stocking terminal fuses.

terminal-fuse-jpg.459580

01-03-2021 10:36pm

Delay On, Delay Off Relay

Buford T Justice · 01-03-2021 11:34pm

Thanks for this - I appreciate it. It makes more sense now.

My local electrical factor has this, I assume it's the same - multi function timer relay.

What software are you using to draw the diagrams?

01-03-2021 11:43pm

Oops....the coil control above is for a Delay on relay. Delay On-Off is a little more involved.

Input voltage can be battery.
The trigger switch would have to be another relay with the coil powered from shore power and the switching dry contacts connected to the "S" on the delay relay.

01-03-2021 11:55pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

My local electrical factor has this, I assume it's the same - multi function timer relay.

Dunno the Delay On - Delay Off in one package are hard to find and Schneider seem to be better than Garo I'm noticing.

Garo isn't very helpful, I can't find a datasheet that says what the functions of the multi-functional relay are..?

It implies it can delay-on and delay-off...I expect that means but not at the same time so get two.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

What software are you using to draw the diagrams?

Smartdraw but my "licence" for it has expired and it's expensive get a new one. I can't seem to find one of those made in Russia licenses.

02-03-2021 12:01am

thuther option is lose the delay and the two relays and just use one.

10A-8-pin-2-pole-ice-cube-plug-in-relay-with-220-240V-AC-coil_2048x.jpg

Not ideal either. If it breaks the compressor of the fridge firing the contacts will arc and might hurt the inverter.

The cheapest option is a centre off manual.

61u6m4s1U9L._SL1100_.jpg

Buford T Justice · 05-03-2021 2:28pm

Delivery fairy came this week, and was a busy boy err.... non gender specific person

I got a Dometic MO9222 Sink & hob combo with the sink on the left and accompanying tap to suit it

SunSaver MPPT arrived that I snaffled on Ebay (plus thermisters from RS)

Handbrake Lowering kit.

Oh, and I complained to the supplier about the "faulty" inverter and managed to blag myself a replacement. That arrived too. I just had to send the old back.

All in all, plenty to be getting on with.

Ford Transit conversion to camper MKII

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