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Can I kick her out?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Paulownia wrote: »
    Does she have a lease?
    Otherwise you can tell her to go

    Under normal circumstances...... but not now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Dav010 wrote: »
    If you live with the property owner, you are a guest, and not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act, even if you are paying. The references to students applies to purpose built student accommodation which used not be covered by the RTA.

    The current crisis is bigger than a Tenants/Landlords rights or lack thereof......


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    never_mind wrote: »
    Hi everyone

    We have a student in ‘digs’ with us. She is a friend’s cousin and we were helping her out for college accommodation. With covid we expected her to head home but she decided to stay. Her attitude has been fairly rotten since then including drinking a lot, being very dirty, not helping around house, and smoking in her room. We’ve done everything to try and sort these issues out with her but i think we have to give her the heave ho soon.

    As covid seems to be here for the long term I wonder how and when I should broach then topic with her. She is a licensee I guess but our mental health is suffering with her. We were going to give her the summer and tell her she would have to head home by early August. Nothing has been decided and I just wanted to see what you all thought first.

    Kick her out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Under normal circumstances...... but not now.

    If you can post the exact legislation that says thats the case i.e a ban on removing licensees from a private dwelling. I'll donate €100 to a charity of your choice, thats how confident i am that i'm right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Del Boy wrote: »
    I'd take guidance from RTB website rather than from you.

    Law is Law.


    The RTB deals with tenancies, this is not a tenancy

    Del Boy wrote: »
    She's not a guest. The poster stated she was in digs in their house.


    She is a guest, as either she is a guest (licencee) or a tenant, she is not a tenant, does not have sole occupation of a self contained unit within the house,
    She can be gotten rid of in as long as it takes to tell her to get out, pack her bags and throw them out the front door after her.
    Id ring the cousin or whoever knows her and tell them to get whoever knows her or their family to collect her asap, maybe the person thinks they can angle for a claim, but imo and from everything here, she has no grounds, Id get them to take her and have her leave on her own bat and just shut the door and even change the lock.
    First sign of any breach was the time to lay down the law, second instance was to throw her out


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The current crisis is bigger than a Tenants/Landlords rights or lack thereof......

    Just to clear up what you are saying about the legislation, the RTB website says:

    uote:
    The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation. Property owners and anyone renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, have regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid ending accommodation arrangements.


    As you can see, the RTB asks for for forbearance, and where possible have regard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Bio Mech


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    It wasn't too long ago that it was "unconstitutional" to prevent a citizen from going for a 3km jog........ times have changed radically, catch up.

    The devils in the details. You can absolutely go on a 3km jog you just have to stay within a 2km radius.

    Details matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The current crisis is bigger than a Tenants/Landlords rights or lack thereof......


    This person is taking the pi$$, they have no rights
    there is no tenant/landlord context, smoking and drinking a lot in someones home, by the sound of the OP, probably living with their kids, one breach is all it takes, anything or even nothing, gone.
    The person took the pi$$, on their bike end of.
    Goes to show, you need to know the law and your own rights in matters, other peoples rights in a persons home, nil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    1874 wrote: »
    This person is taking the pi$$, they have no rights
    there is no tenant/landlord context, smoking and drinking a lot in someones home, by the sound of the OP, probably living their with kids, one breach is all it takes, anything or even nothing, gone.
    The person took the pi$$, on their bike end of.
    Goes to show, you need to know the law and your own rights in matters, other peoples rights in a persons home, nil.

    Maddog is gone very quiet since i offered that €100


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Time wrote: »
    Maddog is gone very quiet since i offered that €100

    I’ll save him digging any further.

    Part 2 (3.2) of the March 27 emergency legislation in relation to accommodation outlines that is covers tenancies defined by the RTA and licensors defined in section 37 of the 2019 Amendment to the Act, purpose built student accommodation.


    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/2/eng/enacted/a0220.pdf


    http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2019/act/14/section/37/revised/en/html

    Specific to the op, section 37(2) clearly states that the Act does Not Apply where the student lives with the property owner:

    2) This section does not apply to a licence in respect of student accommodation in which the licensor (other than a licensor who is not an individual) resides, and references in this section to licence to which this section applies shall be construed accordingly.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    Did the Op not start a thread about this a while back, I'm sure I read through it a while back


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    Original thread referred to a guy living with you, now its a female student.

    Jesus instead of posting replica threads just go and get legal advice!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭never_mind


    Lads, ye have hijacked this thread to literally show each other how big each others d!cks are. I’ll refer to threshold once Monday.

    Mods, lock this sh!tshow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    never_mind wrote: »
    Lads, ye have hijacked this thread to literally show each other how big each others d!cks are. I’ll refer to threshold once Monday.

    Mods, lock this sh!tshow.

    Look whatever you think about the argument here over the ban, and the merits of either side, don't go to threshold. They're not a voluntary rather than professional organisation and aren't qualified to offer proper advice.

    Not only that but they represent the interests of the person in your home, not yours. Get advice from someone who will represent your interests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    italodisco wrote: »
    Original thread referred to a guy living with you, now its a female student.

    Jesus instead of posting replica threads just go and get legal advice!!


    Maybe you're right, or maybe they are trying to cover themselves by not putting specifics in, or maybe they have had a number of licencees.
    Even if it was as a hypothetical discussion only, I think its useful for people to know and shows that some people will come up with any nonsense regarding what an owners rights are,


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I'm not giving advice, I'm stating the realities of the current crisis and it's effects on the Op's predicament.

    You are stating made up rubbish that you imagined.

    The guest can sleep on the street within 2km of the op if it comes to it but the op has no obligation to keep this guest in their house. The movement of the ops guest home would also be allowed, it’s been clearly stated that someone getting away from a situation in their home is allowed so it would stand to reason that someone causing issues in a home can be removed and travel somewhere else legally.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    In the current climate you definitely cannot remove an individual from your home to travel any distance to reside in an alternative household........ it's simply forbidden with no wiggle room whatsoever, end of....... one phone call to the Gardai and you'll be forced to keep her under threat of arrest for violating the current restrictions.
    I'm not guessing here, I'm telling you as a matter of fact.

    When the situation changes, and you have the opportunity, then remove her immediately...... but until then you're stuck with her unfortunately.

    Best of luck!
    MadDog76 wrote: »
    At present, nobody is allowed to have a "guest" in their home........ she lives there and will continue to live there until the risk of her moving has been drastically reduced, whether she's paying rent or not, therefore she can't be removed. That's the long and the short of it.

    Nonsense.

    Gardai have no power to force you to allow someone into your home that's unwelcome and has no legal right to enter.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Time wrote: »
    There is so much bad advice in this thread its ridiculous, and not to pick on you but that post is the worst example of it.

    Firstly the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2020 states in section 5(7) that “all proposed evictions in all tenancies in the State, including those not covered by the Act of 2004, are prohibited during the operation of the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (Covid-19) Act 2020.”

    Under section 5 of the principle 2004 act a tenant is defined as “the person for the time being entitled to the occupation of a dwelling under a tenancy..” The definition of a dwelling under section 4 of the principle act is stated as being .. a property let for rent or valuable consideration as a self-contained residential unit and includes any building or part of a building used as a dwelling and any out office, yard, garden or other land appurtenant to it or usually enjoyed with it”.

    A room in a house is not a self contained residential unit and, it is clear from these definitions that licensee arrangements are not considered to fall under the scope of the term tenant or tenancy as defined in the principle act. There is vast swathes of case law that support this.

    Secondly, the 2020 act (including its incorporation of section 37 of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Act 201, which only covers licensees in purpose built student accommodation) in no way amends the scope of the definitions above to incorporate licensees into the meaning of a tenant under the principle 2004 act, nor does it create a new definition for the purposes of interpretation under the 2020 act. As such it is impossible to see how any construction of the three aforementioned acts combined could result in the conclusion that arrangements which involve the owner also living in the premises are covered by the new measures.

    The information on the RTB website is factually incorrect and i've personally complained to them about it, and asked that they remove it.

    The first part states "including those not covered by the Act of 2004" so the intention is clearly to include those not normally within the 2004 act meaning of tenant.

    Did the intend to include a licensee? I would suggest they probable did. The intent was 'no evictions' simple as. Did they actually, in law include licensees? I don't think so but I wouldn't put the house on it. Maybe someone will take a case and the courts will let us know

    That all being said, the op hasn't explained how this person is renting with them. Ad hoc basis or through the college? I know it's a cousin of a friend but is she paying cash direct or is there an agreement via the college?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    New Emergency Legislation:
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector

    Quote:
    "The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation."

    Poster stating this girl is in digs in their house.

    Rent a room and digs had it's own definition in the 2019 act though. Not all types are included in that act. The 2020 act I believe failed to include licensees not included in the 2019 act.

    And you shouldn't really just point to a website and say it's a fact. They get things wrong as well sometimes. The act Trump's anything they claim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭never_mind


    Anyone who’s talking brown about yer one.. send me your address and I’ll happily send her to you. Xox


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    never_mind wrote: »
    Anyone who’s talking brown about yer one.. send me your address and I’ll happily send her to you. Xox

    All you have to do is send her out the door, that’s where your involvement ends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Slydice wrote: »
    You might be risking having to give her €20,000 and having to take her back into your digs if you kick her out.
    I'd usually say to ignore this poster, but in this one case they're partially right. Only for the part that says;
    Rent a Room & 'Digs' Accommodation included in legislation
    The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation. Property owners and anyone renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, have regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid ending accommodation arrangements.
    So if they signed a contract that has the word "digs" on it, you may have to keep her.

    =-=

    Ban her phone & laptop MAC from your WiFi.

    If her parents are guarantors for the deposit, let them know that you will have to get new bed, mattress, repaint the room, etc, because she's smoking inside, and you'll be taking it out of the deposit, and coming after them for anything owed that the deposit doesn't cover. Also, any damage caused by her whilst she's drunk, also will be coming from them.

    Or they collect her on or before the 2nd May, and you'll give them back their deposit. In the long run, it'll probably work out best for your sanity if you offer the carrot approach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    after reading the thread and conflicting views on the law......I'd still fuk her out...the OPs mental help trumps her right to stay....

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭never_mind


    Anyone who’s talking brown about yer one.. send me your address and I’ll happily send her to you. Xox


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Physically, you could....... but you'd then run the risk of severe consequences....... and she'd be placed back into your home regardless.

    The opportunity to remove her has passed......

    Someone would be placed into your home against you're wishes?
    That weed must be pretty special.


  • Administrators Posts: 13,535 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    The only person you need to ring is your friend or the parents. Tell them time has come for her to move back home.

    Edit: Or first stop is tell her to move out herself. “it’s not working out anymore” is explanation enough. Where she goes and how she gets there is not your concern.

    And don’t do favours for friends again!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Someone would be placed into your home against you're wishes?
    That weed must be pretty special.

    Replaced if an attempt is made to circumvent the current restrictions by removing her......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    never_mind wrote: »
    Anyone who’s talking brown about yer one.. send me your address and I’ll happily send her to you. Xox

    You're afraid to put her out your front door nevermind send her to someone else, lots talking brown here, including you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    Is MadDog a bit simple?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    never_mind wrote: »
    Lads, ye have hijacked this thread to literally show each other how big each others d!cks are. I’ll refer to threshold once Monday.

    Mods, lock this sh!tshow.

    Threshold are a tenants rights organisation, well known on this forum for giving incorrect advice. You are not a tenant, she is not a tenant. Threshold are irrelevant to you.


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