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funny auctioneers

  • 08-10-2020 12:28pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭


    im currently trying to negotiate the purchase of a house on behalf of my widowed mother , she sold another one which was just too big , the grounds being the most unmanagable , house she wants to buy is in a better location for buses , church she attends , local shops etc , she can walk to all of them if she succeeds in buying

    anyway , the house was sale agreed at the beginning of the year , auctioneer has already caught herself out with the figure she claimed it was sold for , said it was sold for 360 k on previous occasion including the day i got to look at it myself , my mother and one of my sisters saw it three times

    last few days post my mothers bid of 320 k which was made ten days ago , she ( estate agent ) claimed the bid was too far off the original ( fell through price ) 350 k agreed price , i said nothing but found it amusing as on previous occasions the fall through price was claimed to be 360 k

    she talks about how its only " logical for the vendor and buyer to aim for common ground " and how it shows good will for my mother to make a bid which will satisfy the seller , while objectively perhaps true , it would be a foolish buyer who gave the seller everything they wanted , this house had not a single bid on it since the start of the year and is on the market more than twelve months with an asking price of 370 k , much higher than other houses in the parish ( one hour fifteen minutes from o connell stv dublin )

    the tone is a constant stream of condescension and not in the least convincing either , there are valuable contents in the property and i told the agent yesterday that my mother would be willing to pay 5k for them , they arent worth the half of it but its a way of outbidding your current bid without making one look like literally doing so

    estate agent was having none of it , " no point in talking contents until sale price agreed "

    someone with a bit of nous would simply consider that paying over the odds for contents tops up the sale price but no

    makes me think its no wonder some houses never sell , between incredibly rigid sellers and horribly obtuse estate agents

    i said to the estate agent today that at the very worst , my mothers bid has value in terms of propping up the house for further bids , told her if a house is not selling , its simply priced too high and to further underline the point , this house had no bids since the sale fell through earlier in the year

    thankfully my mother is open to just moving to dublin as all her daughters live there but you do wonder sometimes at the sense of entitlement from certain estate agents , no nuance or appreciation for price appraisal from the other side , want to stress , im not saying the bid should be accepted , if the vendors wish to hold out for several more years , thats their perogative but dont expect someone else to identically value a property


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    im currently trying to negotiate the purchase of a house on behalf of my widowed mother , she sold another one which was just too big , the grounds being the most unmanagable , house she wants to buy is in a better location for buses , church she attends , local shops etc , she can walk to all of them if she succeeds in buying

    anyway , the house was sale agreed at the beginning of the year , auctioneer has already caught herself out with the figure she claimed it was sold for , said it was sold for 360 k on previous occasion including the day i got to look at it myself , my mother and one of my sisters saw it three times

    last few days post my mothers bid of 320 k which was made ten days ago , she ( estate agent ) claimed the bid was too far off the original ( fell through price ) 350 k agreed price , i said nothing but found it amusing as on previous occasions the fall through price was claimed to be 360 k

    she talks about how its only " logical for the vendor and buyer to aim for common ground " and how it shows good will for my mother to make a bid which will satisfy the seller , while objectively perhaps true , it would be a foolish buyer who gave the seller everything they wanted , this house had not a single bid on it since the start of the year and is on the market more than twelve months with an asking price of 370 k , much higher than other houses in the parish ( one hour fifteen minutes from o connell stv dublin )

    the tone is a constant stream of condescension and not in the least convincing either , there are valuable contents in the property and i told the agent yesterday that my mother would be willing to pay 5k for them , they arent worth the half of it but its a way of outbidding your current bid without making one look like literally doing so

    estate agent was having none of it , " no point in talking contents until sale price agreed "

    someone with a bit of nous would simply consider that paying over the odds for contents tops up the sale price but no

    makes me think its no wonder some houses never sell , between incredibly rigid sellers and horribly obtuse estate agents

    i said to the estate agent today that at the very worst , my mothers bid has value in terms of propping up the house for further bids , told her if a house is not selling , its simply priced too high and to further underline the point , this house had no bids since the sale fell through earlier in the year

    thankfully my mother is open to just moving to dublin as all her daughters live there but you do wonder sometimes at the sense of entitlement from certain estate agents , no nuance or appreciation for price appraisal from the other side , want to stress , im not saying the bid should be accepted , if the vendors wish to hold out for several more years , thats their perogative but dont expect someone else to identically value a property

    Neither the owner nor the Estate Agent is obliged to sell you the house. There are entitled take whatever irrational and unreasonable positions they like. You either buy another property or do business their way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Neither the owner nor the Estate Agent is obliged to sell you the house. There are entitled take whatever irrational and unreasonable positions they like. You either buy another property or do business their way.

    Read my thread opener again, I said it's their perogative should they wish to hold out for a year more !


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Mad_maxx wrote: »

    Read my thread opener again, I said it's their perogative should they wish to hold out for a year more !

    What is your issue here though, that the seller refuses to sell for less than they want?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

    One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

    I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

    The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,380 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Well there's a simple way to tie this up. You offer the highest bid you are willing to go to. Tell them its an offer open for a week and after that you will be looking elsewhere.

    And that's it. Everyone moves on.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

    One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

    I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

    The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.

    EAs act for the seller, not the buyer. If the seller says they won’t sell for less than a certain price, blaming the EA is a bit pointless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

    One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

    I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

    The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.
    This sounds like a good idea but ultimately naive in Ireland. If everyone did this it would leave every aspect nicely sown up by EAs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What is your issue here though, that the seller refuses to sell for less than they want?

    thread is about auctioneers who expect to have their deal sealed without any effort and who think they can so easily bend you to their will , this one seems to be almost insulted by my playing hardball , the house is a year on the market and has no bids on it , my mothers bid is effectively 325k and we now learn the house previously fell through at 360 k as opposed to the previously claimed 350 k , its not a huge gulf really , house was priced too high to begin with

    " funny auctioneers "


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

    One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

    I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

    The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.

    my mothers house is already sold , she is hoping to buy this other one which is a few miles away


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    thread is about auctioneers who expect to have their deal sealed without any effort and who think they can so easily bend you to their will

    " funny auctioneers "

    The trade is really about people who think they can bend auctioneers to their will. Auctioneers have to operate on instructions. If they don't get sales their business will eventually disappear. It is not for you as the purchaser or potential purchaser to tell anybody how to do their business.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    listermint wrote: »
    Well there's a simple way to tie this up. You offer the highest bid you are willing to go to. Tell them its an offer open for a week and after that you will be looking elsewhere.

    And that's it. Everyone moves on.

    trust me , that never works and no auctioneer ever believes you when you say " thats the highest im willing to go "

    ive no problem with a long drawn out dance , i understand these things are nuanced


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    The trade is really about people who think they can bend auctioneers to their will. Auctioneers have to operate on instructions. If they don't get sales their business will eventually disappear. It is not for you as the purchaser or potential purchaser to tell anybody how to do their business.

    perhaps you have trouble reading ?

    ive already said its the sellers perogative to hold out for another year

    my point is about estate agents who appears irked and affronted that a buyer would not say " how high " when they say jump to the asking price


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Thinking about this logically: Obviously the auctioneer expects to get €350k or there abouts, by registering your mothers bid the subsequent bidding would work off that baseline €320k which is nearly 10% short of their expectations. I don't blame them for resisting.

    Auctioneers also don't make a commission off contents not part of the sale description, I wouldn't think its their place to be handling that aspect of a sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Thinking about this logically: Obviously the auctioneer expects to get €350k or there abouts, by registering your mothers bid the subsequent bidding would work off that baseline €320k which is nearly 10% short of their expectations. I don't blame them for resisting.

    Auctioneers also don't make a commission off contents not part of the sale description, I wouldn't think its their place to be handling that aspect of a sale.

    offering 5K extra for contents is often an indirect way of placing a higher bid without shooting your credibility to pieces

    anyway, she wont be going higher until she has to

    the vendors valued the house too high to begin with , presumably the estate agent was unable to persuade them otherwise , logically a house is priced too high if it hasnt a single bid on it

    if you price too high , you turn people off that they wont bid at all


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Funny auctioneers
    Funny buyers
    Funny sellers

    The 5k contents thing is funny to me. So as not to undermine credibility? To avoid stamp duty be my view.

    You've an offer rejected. Options....
    Up it. Out a time limit on it. Buy a different house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Funny auctioneers
    Funny buyers
    Funny sellers

    The 5k contents thing is funny to me. So as not to undermine credibility? To avoid stamp duty be my view.

    You've an offer rejected. Options....
    Up it. Out a time limit on it. Buy a different house.

    if you up a bid without having any reason to do so ( no competing bid ) , you show a willingness to be reeled in , by placing a higher than necessary bid on the contents , you avoid outbidding yourself

    clear ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭DelBoy Trotter


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    if you up a bid without having any reason to do so ( no competing bid ) , you show a willingness to be reeled in , by placing a higher than necessary bid on the contents , you avoid outbidding yourself

    clear ?

    But you do have a reason to up your bid, you were told the original bid isn't accepted.

    From everything you have posted in this thread, there is only one person acting funny in this transaction, and it's not the estate agent


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,380 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    trust me , that never works and no auctioneer ever believes you when you say " thats the highest im willing to go "

    ive no problem with a long drawn out dance , i understand these things are nuanced

    Sorry that does work and works especially well on homes up for long periods of time.

    But you do you.

    It is what we did. And we were willing to walk away. Clearly you are giving off different vibes which allows them to string you along to go up in price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    But you do have a reason to up your bid, you were told the original bid isn't accepted.

    From everything you have posted in this thread, there is only one person acting funny in this transaction, and it's not the estate agent

    so do you think everyone who buys a second hand house hands over exactly what the vendor is asking for ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭DelBoy Trotter


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    so do you think everyone who buys a second hand house hands over exactly what the vendor is asking for ?

    No, definitely not. But your original bid of 320k isn't buying the house. That doesn't mean your next bid has to be exactly what the vendor is asking for (350k) either though


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    thread is about auctioneers who expect to have their deal sealed without any effort and who think they can so easily bend you to their will , this one seems to be almost insulted by my playing hardball , the house is a year on the market and has no bids on it , my mothers bid is effectively 325k and we now learn the house previously fell through at 360 k as opposed to the previously claimed 350 k , its not a huge gulf really , house was priced too high to begin with

    " funny auctioneers "


    Have you considered that the owner is in no rush to sell and will wait for the right price? You seem insulted that the EA won’t bend to your will.

    “Funny buyers child”


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    listermint wrote: »
    Sorry that does work and works especially well on homes up for long periods of time.

    But you do you.

    It is what we did. And we were willing to walk away. Clearly you are giving off different vibes which allows them to string you along to go up in price.

    So it worked for you and therefore it works?

    By saying " I won't go higher than X ,you box yourself in

    Running out of road is never a good idea


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Have you considered that the owner is in no rush to sell and will wait for the right price? You seem insulted that the EA won’t bend to your will.

    “Funny buyers child”

    What do you suggest?

    Offering the asking price?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,380 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    So it worked for you and therefore it works?

    By saying " I won't go higher than X ,you box yourself in

    Running out of road is never a good idea

    Yes. It works therefore it works.....


    Jaysus this is like pulling teeth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    listermint wrote: »
    Yes. It works therefore it works.....


    Jaysus this is like pulling teeth.

    It worked for you ,the test sample is rather small ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,380 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    It worked for you ,the test sample is rather small ?

    Do you think I came up with the idea myself...


    Look if you like to play games thinking the seller is bothered knock yourself out. They've already said to you that there's an in between .

    There's one person play acting here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    I’d says what’s happening here is that the seller won’t accept your bid and the auctioneer is just looking for ways to talk you into increasing your bid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    What do you suggest?

    Offering the asking price?

    The EA has told you that your bid will not be accepted and what you need to do to buy the house. I suggest make a higher offer that is acceptable or move on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,944 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Really is a weird one, sold my house and bought earlier this year thankfully. A good friend of mine had a property with a different agent way above market value (320) when similar house were going for 280-290. No movement, no offers came in. After a conversation over a drink my friend instructed the agent to drop the price to 270 as he needed to sell to buy. 3 people interested and the property sold for 305. Agent was still advising him to hold out for more but a quick look at PPR for the year post and prior sale would indicate they got a great price.

    Agents are sellers, they'll overvalue a house to get business and then wait for you to say maybe be we should lower the price.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭lalababa


    The quicker Donedeal takes over this sh**fest the better! No paying EA , no 350quid to Daft. And the quicker the land registry take over sales the better too.....is this in de pipeline...a streamlined selling process sans solicitor...or with land registry solicitors on a very reduced flat rate??


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