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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    It survived one of the greatest economic crisis the country has ever known.

    It is immortal and cannot be killed. :pac:

    hqdefault.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    eastwest wrote: »
    I heard that interview, Canney didn't come across very well even with a lightweight interviewer. The texts that were read out also seemed to mostly rubbish his blatherings about the viability of a railway on the route.
    He doesn't need to put himself under this pressure though, he has pretty much blocked any development on this route for a decade at least.

    Very soft interview. Sean Canney and a friend threw their eye on it and reckon it can be done for less that €95million, so whats wrong with ye all?.. Not a mention, mind you, of mandatory electrification, the missing bridges, the bridges that haven't had to carry anything heavier than a piebald pony for nearly twenty years, the subsidence into the bog and the imposition of further losses on an already bankrupt Irish Rail. Like the closed down Galway Airport, it's a Monseigneur Horan legacy issue of the highest order.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Very soft interview. Sean Canney and a friend threw their eye on it and reckon it can be done for less that €95million, so whats wrong with ye all?.. Not a mention, mind you, of mandatory electrification, the missing bridges, the bridges that haven't had to carry anything heavier than a piebald pony for nearly twenty years, the subsidence into the bog and the imposition of further losses on an already bankrupt Irish Rail. Like the closed down Galway Airport, it's a Monseigneur Horan legacy issue of the highest order.
    There's no doubt that there is an element of a vanity project about the proposal to keep throwing good money after bad with regards to the wrc.
    Horan brought the airport, so McGreal must bring the train. The church delivers.
    A few of them can't wait for the holy water sprinkling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    hqdefault.jpg

    Is that a Craven? :p

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Craven image? yes I think so and an old one at that?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Posts: 0 Jon Green Geese


    Athenry meeting hears of 'overwhelming support' for greenway

    'Delusional' to think train is coming back says councillor

    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/102558/athenry-meeting-hears-of-overwhelming-support-for-greenway


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Athenry meeting hears of 'overwhelming support' for greenway

    'Delusional' to think train is coming back says councillor

    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/102558/athenry-meeting-hears-of-overwhelming-support-for-greenway
    But never forget that delusional promises can get you elected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    The pressure on Galway councillors is going to be huge in the upcoming vote on a feasibility study - even been asked now if they can't vote with the greenway campaign then abstain

    https://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/08/29/4161029-if-you-cant-support-us-abstain--greenway-plea/

    they will be having palpitations in Claremorris, the edifice is crumbling, Sligo is gone, Galway could go, and even in Mayo they are coming under pressure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    westtip wrote: »
    The pressure on Galway councillors is going to be huge in the upcoming vote on a feasibility study - even been asked now if they can't vote with the greenway campaign then abstain

    https://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/08/29/4161029-if-you-cant-support-us-abstain--greenway-plea/

    they will be having palpitations in Claremorris, the edifice is crumbling, Sligo is gone, Galway could go, and even in Mayo they are coming under pressure.
    I'd hazard a guess that abstainers will also face a wipe out in the next election if this vote goes against the people. People are very angry in athenry since the apple debacle and they won't accept defeat on the greenway issue.


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  • Posts: 0 Jon Green Geese


    You only need to look at how activity has grown in the last few weeks

    1k joined the Facebook group in a single day. It's been steadily increasing and will be over 6k in another day.

    Businesses are actively getting involved and putting up funds, resources and are starting to use their store fronts in promoting the objective

    2 meetings held which have driven local groups to form in tuam and Athenry. These are now actively going door to door across all businesses and groups in the towns to garner further support

    A concerted phone, text and email campaign directed at all Galway County Councillors to make sure they vote for the feasibility study to be kicked off

    I think it's safe to say that "the writing is on the wall" of Castletown Station


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,893 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin




  • Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    There are maybe half a million people who live closer to Knock airport than any other.

    It at least gives them connectivity to one global city (London) and onward connecting flights to the rest of the world, quite a few regional UK destinations, and charter flights in the summer, 

    A train line from Athenry to Claremorris would give a few thousand people access to Galway city, which they can already get to much quicker on the bus. Even students wouldn't bother, probably only FTP holders enjoying a day out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte



    You may have posted this as a piss-take but it says it all about the way CIE and numerous politicians have run a very useful piece of infrastructure into the ground.


  • Posts: 0 Jon Green Geese


    Here is a map of the proposed Western Rail Trail greenway that I've put together

    http://bit.ly/WRT_Route

    460147.PNG

    It's very possible that I will edit it for the Sligo section, westtip can you advise if it needs to be modified


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    NIR loco @ 1:56, was I seeing things?

    And why are many of those trains running on the right hand rail?

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?





  • NIR loco @ 1:56, was I seeing things?

    And why are many of those trains running on the right hand rail?
    I would imagine that with the running down of operations, the line was treated as a single track along its entire length. All the points being locked at the stations to use only one track. Only one train allowed at a time on the entire line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    NIR loco @ 1:56, was I seeing things?

    And why are many of those trains running on the right hand rail?

    The Western Enterprise Railtour - 7/4/1990 - more here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/irnirishrailwaynews/westrail-adventure-t1933.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,893 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    I would imagine that with the running down of operations, the line was treated as a single track along its entire length. All the points being locked at the stations to use only one track. Only one train allowed at a time on the entire line.

    Tuam-Claremorris and Tuam-Athenry were still the track blocks sections around then. The line was still used for regular Foynes-Limerick-Ballina freight flows.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Bray Head wrote: »
    There are maybe half a million people who live closer to Knock airport than any other.

    It at least gives them connectivity to one global city (London) and onward connecting flights to the rest of the world, quite a few regional UK destinations, and charter flights in the summer, 

    A train line from Athenry to Claremorris would give a few thousand people access to Galway city, which they can already get to much quicker on the bus. Even students wouldn't bother, probably only FTP holders enjoying a day out.

    BUT THEY HAVE THE LUAS UP IN DUBLIN!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    PODCAST OF THE KEITH FINNEGAN SHOW – TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 4TH 2018
    https://galwaybayfm.ie/sep3-2/

    Sean Canney on todays show.
    Listen from 28 minutes onwards


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    PODCAST OF THE KEITH FINNEGAN SHOW – TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 4TH 2018
    https://galwaybayfm.ie/sep3-2/

    Sean Canney on todays show.
    Listen from 28 minutes onwards

    Interesting take on the numbers.
    So, the wrc (the new bit) has finally reached half its target of 250,000, seven years after opening, and it has done so by slashing prices to make it even more of a loss maker.
    Nice one! We should definitely splash the cash and build it on northwards so as to rack up decent losses.
    Did I read somewhere that the Dublin metro project has a design capacity of 15,000 passengers per hour? So it would carry more people in a day than the wrc carries in a year.
    Canney also ducked a question by Keith, as you whether all the ennis athenry passengers got off in athenry. He said they did. I doubt that's true, somehow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    eastwest wrote: »
    Interesting take on the numbers.
    So, the wrc (the new bit) has finally reached half its target of 250,000, seven years after opening, and it has done so by slashing prices to make it even more of a loss maker.
    Nice one! We should definitely splash the cash and build it on northwards so as to rack up decent losses.
    Did I read somewhere that the Dublin metro project has a design capacity of 15,000 passengers per hour? So it would carry more people in a day than the wrc carries in a year.
    Canney also ducked a question by Keith, as you whether all the ennis athenry passengers got off in athenry. He said they did. I doubt that's true, somehow.

    I think that was when he mentioned that this was the Ryanair model of doing things?:D
    A few good lines in it alright from Sean. The percentage growth figures most impressed him even if it was off a low base.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    So when will Tuam railway station open its doors again?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    marno21 wrote: »
    So when will Tuam railway station open its doors again?
    Never. The sad fact is that even in the extremely unlikely event of a rail investment to open Tuam-Athenry, the plan was always to install an automatic turnstile and shell further up the line and one at the site of the old sugar factory. Not a lot of people in Tuam are told that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    eastwest wrote: »
    Interesting take on the numbers.
    So, the wrc (the new bit) has finally reached half its target of 250,000, seven years after opening, and it has done so by slashing prices to make it even more of a loss maker.
    Nice one! We should definitely splash the cash and build it on northwards so as to rack up decent losses.
    Did I read somewhere that the Dublin metro project has a design capacity of 15,000 passengers per hour? So it would carry more people in a day than the wrc carries in a year.
    Canney also ducked a question by Keith, as you whether all the ennis athenry passengers got off in athenry. He said they did. I doubt that's true, somehow.

    Is there a forensic interviewing course we could send Keith away on? Sean O'Rourke or Pat Kenny would have torn Canney to shreds. Blathering on about the line been closed for 9 months of two years because of floods and he the Minister for OPW for one of those years. The figures gathered are conveniently pre-motorway and are either cumulative passenger figures including commuter passengers in and out of Limerick and Galway or else there is something very dodgy going on between the people of Ennis and Athenry. He's a spoofer and he got away with this time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    The figures from Sean Canney were posted up on Facebook recently by Gerry not up for discussion Murray can be torn apart with rational reasoned analysis.

    Sean Canney is massaging the figures, 133,000 on Ennis/Athenry is a measure of the people using that route, these are the through passengers using the route from Limerick to Galway, they are the Inter-city passengers this route was built for, the 352,000 figure he quoted he said "using that line" includes Ennis/Limerick figures for a line that pre-existed plus the Athenry/Galway figures a line that pre-existed plus the ones using Ennis/Athenry the new line passengers. There are not 352,000 passengers using the through route.

    The Ennis/Athenry figure works out at about 31 passengers per train, (number of up and down trains per annum divided into the 133,000) they are beefing these figures up for the west on track submission on the WRC report; the business case to build the line from Ennis Athenry was to have 250,000 using the route by year 5 which would have been 2015.

    3 years after 2015 and 8 years after the line opened they are bleating on about a success story of hitting 52% of the business case target 3 years after the target should have been hit. As mentioned Gerry "not up for discussion" murray posted these figures up on an FB post on the Quiet Man Greenway page recently, I downloaded the jpeg he posted and share it here now. Personally I would recommend to West on Track to keep very quiet about them they still display a massive under performance and hardly a success story to advocate spending another 100 million on a line from Athenry to Tuam which will require more subvention of maybe 6 or 7 million a year. The figures they have been provided yes show growth, yes this is largely due to price decreases, which has increased the subvention level now I ask if you put the subvention in context and disregard the necessary capital investment which Mr Canney seems to have a very flippant attitude about - Sligo greenway co-op presented to businesses in West Sligo today which showed the one off capital cost of a greenway from sligo to charlestown was about 4 million the expected payback (note payback no subvention needed) was about 2 years. And mr canney still supports this blood sucking idea from our limited exchequer for a railway that will cost over one hundred million to build and will then suck about 5 or 6 million in subvention running costs, he is totally and utterly deluded!:mad:jerry murray rail figures.jpg


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Can anyone provide figures on the operating subvention by year for the Ennis-Athenry section or are they available? I am quite pleased with what IE have done with the line, reducing the fares to drive up passenger numbers is exactly what needs to be done on these lines. The subvention would be pretty similar for a full or half full train, so you may as well fill the trains and get value for money with a lower operating subvention.

    If Ennis-Athenry is getting 133,000 passengers with a €3m subvention like it got as quoted in the Prime Time segment, then the per passenger subvention is similar to the per passenger subvention on the Dublin-Cork line. That's a much better use of resources than when it was carrying 35k passengers. The same ideology should be applied to the 2 lines through Tipperary. If you are keeping the track open, run 8 trains a day instead of 2 and you at least get social benefits, with the same subvention, with more passengers served and lower subvention per passenger.

    In relation to the greenway, it surely is a no brainer to build the Sligo section first, and let it be a success and see where to go from there. The main railway arguments are around Tuam-Athenry, connecting Claremorris and a rail connection to Knock Airport (even though Knock Airport is several kilometres from the line). There seems to be little fuss about Charlestown-Collooney, so why not proceed with this section of greenway given there is pretty much zero chance of it ever seeing trains? Let the war of attrition carry on in Galway and let the northern end fire away and if required, it can be used to demonstrate the success of the greenway principle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    marno21 wrote: »
    Can anyone provide figures on the operating subvention by year for the Ennis-Athenry section or are they available? I am quite pleased with what IE have done with the line, reducing the fares to drive up passenger numbers is exactly what needs to be done on these lines. The subvention would be pretty similar for a full or half full train, so you may as well fill the trains and get value for money with a lower operating subvention.

    If Ennis-Athenry is getting 133,000 passengers with a €3m subvention like it got as quoted in the Prime Time segment, then the per passenger subvention is similar to the per passenger subvention on the Dublin-Cork line. That's a much better use of resources than when it was carrying 35k passengers. The same ideology should be applied to the 2 lines through Tipperary. If you are keeping the track open, run 8 trains a day instead of 2 and you at least get social benefits, with the same subvention, with more passengers served and lower subvention per passenger.

    In relation to the greenway, it surely is a no brainer to build the Sligo section first, and let it be a success and see where to go from there. The main railway arguments are around Tuam-Athenry, connecting Claremorris and a rail connection to Knock Airport (even though Knock Airport is several kilometres from the line). There seems to be little fuss about Charlestown-Collooney, so why not proceed with this section of greenway given there is pretty much zero chance of it ever seeing trains? Let the war of attrition carry on in Galway and let the northern end fire away and if required, it can be used to demonstrate the success of the greenway principle.

    the layout of the land is pretty much what is happening as you describe. The Sligo section is a shoe in. A rail link to Knock Airport is based on the myth of extending to Charlestown, North of Claremorris has more or less been conceded even by West on Track and their diehard supporters in Mayo coco as they have allowed a change of use of the line to velo-rail in and around Kiltimagh (although this project is failing to get off the ground) there is some truth in what you say about decrease the costs of fares the subvention in total stays the same. I have heard figures like the Ennis/Athenry line is costing about €60k per week, not fully sure of that need to double check before someone jumps down my throat, but that works out at around 3million a year.

    It is true the most likely greenway to be completed first will be Charlestown - collooney, when that happens the impact will be interesting to measure.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    westtip wrote: »
    the layout of the land is pretty much what is happening as you describe. The Sligo section is a shoe in. A rail link to Knock Airport is based on the myth of extending to Charlestown, North of Claremorris has more or less been conceded even by West on Track and their diehard supporters in Mayo coco as they have allowed a change of use of the line to velo-rail in and around Kiltimagh (although this project is failing to get off the ground) there is some truth in what you say about decrease the costs of fares the subvention in total stays the same. I have heard figures like the Ennis/Athenry line is costing about €60k per week, not fully sure of that need to double check before someone jumps down my throat, but that works out at around 3million a year.

    It is true the most likely greenway to be completed first will be Charlestown - collooney, when that happens the impact will be interesting to measure.

    130,000 passengers and a total subvention of 3 million would work out as an individual subvention of around 25 euro/passenger journey. I've heard subvention figures if 50 euro mentioned, so it's not all that clear how much is being spent to prop up the service.
    The figures are cloudy to the average observer, allowing people like Canney to come on a local radio station (with an admittedly lightweight interviewer) and trumpet failure to hit any more than half a target as a success. I'd love to see a graphic that analyses the figures properly, stripping out the business that would have been achieved on existing lines before the ennis athenry section was built.


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