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Was Osama Bin Laden a patsy?

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24

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    #32
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

    This is what is primarily fuelling the conspiracy theory.

    The only plausible reason is they didn’t want to create a place of worship and within Islamic practice a burial place needs to be selected/arranged within 24 hours of death.

    Personally (and I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories,) I think he had died many years before. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support. When the US trialed Sadam Hussien they publicised his hanging very graphically, however, they didn’t even publish a picture of Bin Laden?

    Doesn’t add up in my opinion.


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    #33
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

    The alternative being?


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    #34
    sReq | uTeK
    Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    Trigger wrote: »
    You can play devil's advocate all you want, I have provided you with links to where the photoshopped bin laden pictures originated.

    Just to play devils advocate how do you know that reality is not simulated and everything is real and nothing is real?......how do you like those apples.


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    #35
    sReq | uTeK
    Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.

    Its funny that the world spent so long trying to find Pablo Escobar only for a gun fight on a roof to ensure and him to die.

    Its life not a movie.


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    #36
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    theballz wrote: »
    This is what is primarily fuelling the conspiracy theory.

    The only plausible reason is they didn’t want to create a place of worship and within Islamic practice a burial place needs to be selected/arranged within 24 hours of death.

    Personally (and I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories,) I think he had died many years before. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support. When the US trialed Sadam Hussien they publicised his hanging very graphically, however, they didn’t even publish a picture of Bin Laden?

    Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

    The Bush administration showed photos of Saddam's sons after they were shot and killed. Iraq handled Saddam's execution, and news sources obtained footage of it.

    Bin Laden's death was handled entirely by the Americans and under a different administration (Obama), they chose not to make public photos of Bin Laden after his death, but certain Democrat and Republican members were shown the photos. DNA samples were taken after the raid, and compound members taken during that raid were confirmed to be related to Bin Laden.

    What's odd about all this is that when the ISIS leader Al-Baghdadi was tracked down by US forces and cornered and blew himself up, and later buried at sea, it was largely accepted by conspiracy theorists without photos/video of the corpse.

    Back to Bin Laden, you seem to maintain he died prior to 2011, when, where and how? and what is the evidence you're basing that on? thanks


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    #37
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    theballz wrote: »
    . The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support.
    Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

    "Very close"? It was 18 months before the election.


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    #38
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    The photos are hilarious. Even if you ignore the ridiculous photoshop why would any of them be taking photos with Osama? They were at the same parties?

    I do find the whole burial at sea suspicious. I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that is strange.


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    #39
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    It's funny to me that the US spent so much time and money looking for him then once they caught him they killed him and ****ed him into the sea.
    Well what the fuk were they suppose to do with him ? Send him to a taxidermist ?
    They dumped the scumbag in the sea so that his burial spot wouldn't become a shrine for other religious fuktards


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    #40
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    theballz wrote: »
    This is what is primarily fuelling the conspiracy theory.

    The only plausible reason is they didn’t want to create a place of worship and within Islamic practice a burial place needs to be selected/arranged within 24 hours of death.

    Personally (and I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories,) I think he had died many years before. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support. When the US trialed Sadam Hussien they publicised his hanging very graphically, however, they didn’t even publish a picture of Bin Laden?

    Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

    Seymour Hersh with a far more credible account of what happened:

    https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden


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    #41
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    sabat wrote: »
    Seymour Hersh with a far more credible account of what happened:

    https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden

    It's a terrible piece, devoid of solid evidence and relied heavily on a few anonymous sources. It's been widely criticised, either Hersh is getting senile or he's being far too gullible with his "sources"
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/18/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-review-seymour-m-hersh-abbottabad-syria-sarin-al-nusra-government
    https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden


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    #42
    JohnMcm1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 79 ✭✭JohnMcm1


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's a terrible piece, devoid of solid evidence and relied heavily on a few anonymous sources. It's been widely criticised, either Hersh is getting senile or he's being far too gullible with his "sources"
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/18/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-review-seymour-m-hersh-abbottabad-syria-sarin-al-nusra-government
    https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

    Seymour seems like a bit of a conspiracy nut to be fair, if he told me the sky was blue I'd still have to check for myself.


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    #43
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    When and where was he killed according to you and what's the evidence for that?

    I think it was Fox News that reported he was killed on December 26th 2001, or reported someone as saying that he was.

    Also seems quite improbable that he was in dire need of dialysis treatment but could survive without expert medical assistance for over a decade in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan.

    A lot of those videos that were released of him are very dubious too and that's according to inteligence personnel. Even the translations of what he is purported to have been saying have been lambasted.


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    #44
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    JohnMcm1 wrote: »
    Meant to post this in the original, saw it doing the rounds on social media.

    I would say that those images are most certainly faked.

    But I think I recall images of the Jenna and Barbara Bush twins dancing and clubbing in the South of France with Rafa Bin Laden, Osama's niece I believe.


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    #45
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I've seen a lot of the footage, he doesn't "look different" to me. Do you have any evidence they are all doctored? if so, that's some very impressive double or CGI. Also managed to fool all of the world's intelligence agencies, and Al Qaeda themselves.



    He declared war on the US in 1996. He was on the FBI's top ten most wanted list by 1998.


    He was actually never on the FBI's list for 9/11 involvement.


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    #46
    JohnMcm1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 79 ✭✭JohnMcm1


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    He was actually never on the FBI's list for 9/11 involvement.

    What ****e are you talking?


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    #47
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What videos?

    They ditched his body in the sea because they didn't want to create a shrine

    I believe you are referring to the Chinook crash in 2011 that killed 38. No one from the Bin Laden mission was killed in that attack, but members from their unit were killed.

    That's a pretty poor excuse.

    If Osama was as bad as he's made out to be then who would even go to this shrine? If anything people would go to desecrate it and that would be just fine and dandy for the propaganda machine.

    It would have been just as easy to show evidence of his corpse much like they did with Uday and Qusay Hussein.

    Speaking of he Husseins, old uncle Saddam is buried in the Al-Awja cemetary in his home town of Tikrit. Why was there no fear of creating a shrine to him?

    All logic points to Osama having died or being killed years prior but his bogey-man legacy being used to ramp up the fear. They couldn't keep his ass alive forever so at some point they had to announce that he was killed and his body disposed of.

    And what threat is a shrine anyway if one were even to materialise? Do shrines endow pilgrims with special supernatural powers that would render them in indefeatible enemy?

    The reason why Jimmy Saville was exhumed and his rotten corpse moved to a secret location was at the behest of his family and not because legions of nonces would descend on the shrine and hold vigils in honour or the Great Paedo In Chief but because the thing would have been trashed and vandalised daily.


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    #48
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    That's a pretty poor excuse.

    If Osama was as bad as he's made out to be then who would even go to this shrine?.

    Like how Hitler is universally hated and no one would attempt to go to anywhere he is associated with?


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    #49
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's a terrible photoshop job, so I am not sure I would trust your claims on footage of Bin Laden

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/19/facebook-posts/dont-fall-these-altered-images-obama-clinton-and-r/


    Speaking of fakery and staging, the entourage in the White House allegedly watching the Bin Laden hit was another joke. The footage cuts out "apparently". It's akin to those staged photos from the Oval Office showing a morose looking Obama having heard of news of a school massacre. He's dressed in his suit, looking pensive and pained. Chances are he was asleep or soaping his nuts in the bath or riding Michelle and was then told "Whenever you're ready Mr President we need you to scrub up and get into the Oval Office for a staged photo-shoot as if you were there all the time." :pac:


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    #50
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Not really, they found him, killed him. The info is all out there.

    Of course if you want mystery and suspicion, conspiracy sites cater for those demands by distorting the facts to manufacture a vague mystery out of it, the same way they do with everything.

    What's vague is that they purported to have found him, killed him and then disposed of the body with no evidence that they did any of this.

    You constantly demand evidence and sources from people but are quite happy to just take this story on faith without a shred of evidence and then go along with all the excuses that are tabled for not providing evidence such as the "shrine" thing or the usual "national security risk" chestnut.


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    #51
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    That's a pretty poor excuse.

    If Osama was as bad as he's made out to be then who would even go to this shrine? If anything people would go to desecrate it and that would be just fine and dandy for the propaganda machine.

    Is your random personal assumption. As mentioned, Trump also had Al Baghdadi buried at sea for the same reason, they didn't want to create some sort of shrine or mecca.
    It would have been just as easy to show evidence of his corpse much like they did with Uday and Qusay Hussein.

    They didn't want to publish the photos, nor did they have to.
    Speaking of he Husseins, old uncle Saddam is buried in the Al-Awja cemetary in his home town of Tikrit. Why was there no fear of creating a shrine to him?

    As mentioned, the Iraqi's controlled his death.
    All logic points to Osama having died or being killed years prior but his bogey-man legacy being used to ramp up the fear. They couldn't keep his ass alive forever so at some point they had to announce that he was killed and his body disposed of.

    You are claiming Bin Laden died earlier? when, where, how and evidence for that please..
    The reason why Jimmy Saville was exhumed and his rotten corpse moved to a secret location was at the behest of his family and not because legions of nonces would descend on the shrine and hold vigils in honour or the Great Paedo In Chief but because the thing would have been trashed and vandalised daily.

    A sexual predator has nothing to do with an international terrorist and terrorist ideology.


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    #52
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    theballz wrote: »
    This is what is primarily fuelling the conspiracy theory.

    The only plausible reason is they didn’t want to create a place of worship and within Islamic practice a burial place needs to be selected/arranged within 24 hours of death.

    Personally (and I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories,) I think he had died many years before. The death of OBL was very close to Obama’s second election and was used as a tool to rally support. When the US trialed Sadam Hussien they publicised his hanging very graphically, however, they didn’t even publish a picture of Bin Laden?

    Doesn’t add up in my opinion.

    That's not in the slightest bit plausible. Do you think think that the billion+ Muslims on Earth would be flocking to a Bin Laden burial site? Mo Salah, Paul Pogba and Mezut Ozil can't play this weekend because they are off to light candles at the OBL shrine of the sacred?


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    #53
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    TheRepentent wrote: »
    Well what the fuk were they suppose to do with him ? Send him to a taxidermist ?
    They dumped the scumbag in the sea so that his burial spot wouldn't become a shrine for other religious fuktards

    "fuktards"

    Whoa!

    And what's stopping these "fuktards" as you so eloquoently put it from erecting their own shrine to the "scumbag" as you so eloquoently put it?

    There are shrines to God, Jesus and the Virgin Mary all over the world. I don't see any of their remains interred there.


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    #54
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    What's vague is that they purported to have found him, killed him and then disposed of the body with no evidence that they did any of this.

    Bin Laden died in Abbottabad in 2011, there's a lot of evidence to support that.

    You can start with this, and explain how all of it is wrong, and then explain when, where and how he did die, with evidence, thanks
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Osama_bin_Laden

    Even the Pakistani's, who were internationally embarrassed by the entire incident (he was living just a short distance from one of their military academies) have admitted he died in Pakistan in 2011
    You constantly demand evidence and sources from people but are quite happy to just take this story on faith without a shred of evidence and then go along with all the excuses that are tabled for not providing evidence such as the "shrine" thing or the usual "national security risk" chestnut.

    False assumption.


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    #55
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    JohnMcm1 wrote: »
    What ****e are you talking?

    I'm not talking shite

    Bin Laden was not on the FBI list for 9/11 involvement.

    If you had examined their website you would have found his picture but 9/11 was never cited as a reason for him being wanted. I haven't checked lately so maybe they've amended their story but from 9/11 right up until his alleged death he was never cited on the FBI list as being wanted for 9/11.

    Trust me. I checked during the noughties and he was never "wanted" for 9/11. There were other reasons, international terrorism, weapons, whatever but 9/11 was not one of them.


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    #56
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Like how Hitler is universally hated and no one would attempt to go to anywhere he is associated with?

    So what?

    What's your point? Hitler's body was apparently incinerated by Goebbels. Was that done to prevent a shrine from emerging or was it old Adolf's dying wish that he didn't want his corpse to be found and dragged along the street like Mussolini or Ceaucescu?

    Did the Allies burn his body and dispose of it to prevent so-called shrines from materialising. The whole shrine thing is laughable.

    Why didn't the Brits dump Bobby Sands' corpse into the North Sea or those executed after 1916 into Dublin Bay and let the prawns have at them?


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    #57
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    So what?

    What's your point? Hitler's body was apparently incinerated by Goebbels. Was that done to prevent a shrine from emerging or was it old Adolf's dying wish that he didn't want his corpse to be found and dragged along the street like Mussolini or Ceaucescu?

    Did the Allies burn his body and dispose of it to prevent so-called shrines from materialising. The whole shrine thing is laughable.

    Why didn't the Brits dump Bobby Sands' corpse into the North Sea or those executed after 1916 into Dublin Bay and let the prawns have at them?

    Incredulity. You can't believe it, and that's your argument it didn't happen. Again.

    You noticing a pattern to this yet? World events didn't happen because you can't "believe" it.


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    #58
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Is your random personal assumption. As mentioned, Trump also had Al Baghdadi buried at sea for the same reason, they didn't want to create some sort of shrine or mecca.



    They didn't want to publish the photos, nor did they have to.



    As mentioned, the Iraqi's controlled his death.



    You are claiming Bin Laden died earlier? when, where, how and evidence for that please..



    A sexual predator has nothing to do with an international terrorist and terrorist ideology.

    Why not? If they are so worried about public opinion then why not kill their adversary and then be magnanimous in victory? If Bin Laden had so many devoted followers then why inflame them further by dumping his body in the sea? Surely returning his body would have shown you to be much more honorable and respectful of their position, a gesture that would have, I don't doubt, garnered a more grudging admiration than throwing his body into the sea, if that indeed even happened. How many battlefield generals have called a ceasefire and allowed the enemy wounded and dead to be rescued or collected and repatriated, thus showing respect and gallantry?

    As for the Iraqis controlling Saddam Hussein's death. The whole trial was a show. A drum-head court martial in a kangaroo court controlled by the Americans. If you believe otherwise I have an estate of igloos in Arizona to sell you.

    You seem to think that the American are incapable of fakery and lies and outright fabrications to stoke public opinion and paint themselves in a certain light. The whole Jessica Lynch pantomine was a laughable schoolboy howler of galactic cringe-worthiness. "She fired her gun until it jammed wasting dozens of screaming Iraqi terrorists hellbent on raping her". That was the idiotic story. And she said so herself. Then they sent in some "Call Of Duty" gang into a hospital to rescue her, all with their "Go! Go Go!" bullshit as Iraqi nurses and doctors were treating her for wounds and concussion and looking incredulously at this Hollywood spectacle of nonsense.


    And I'm not equating a sexual predator to a terrorist much as that has gone over your head. I'm comparing the reasons for not having someone buried in a public area.

    One more LIE on you part is that I am claiming that Bin Laden died earlier. I didn't claim this. I have reasons to suspect that he did and I mentioned that it was reported on Fox that he was reported to have died on December 26th, 2001 or that it was reported on December 26th, 2001 that he died although the time/date of death was earlier


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    #59
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Incredulity. You can't believe it, and that's your argument it didn't happen. Again.

    You noticing a pattern to this yet? World events didn't happen because you can't "believe" it.

    "Incredulity"

    Are YOU seeing a pattern? This is your go-to and always has been and it's a poor counter-argument.

    I don't believe in the tooth-fairy either but you can argue until you are blue in the face that you went to bed with a tooth under your pillow and woke up with a shilling in its place and my incredulity should be dismissed because you know what must have happened.


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    #60
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Why not? If they are so worried about public opinion then why not kill their adversary and then be magnanimous in victory? If Bin Laden had so many devoted followers then why inflame them further by dumping his body in the sea? Surely returning his body would have shown you to be much more honorable and respectful of their position, a gesture that would have, I don't doubt, garnered a more grudging admiration than throwing his body into the sea, if that indeed even happened. How many battlefield generals have called a ceasefire and allowed the enemy wounded and dead to be rescued or collected and repatriated, thus showing respect and gallantry?

    Wow.

    Bin Laden was a terrorist, belonging to a terrorist organisation. He wasn't a "battlefield general".
    As for the Iraqis controlling Saddam Hussein's death. The whole trial was a show. A drum-head court martial in a kangaroo court controlled by the Americans. If you believe otherwise I have an estate of igloos in Arizona to sell you.

    Right. The Iraqi's hung him and buried him.
    One more LIE on you part is that I am claiming that Bin Laden died earlier.I didn't claim this. I have reasons to suspect that he did and I mentioned that it was reported on Fox that he was reported to have died on December 26th, 2001 or that it was reported on December 26th, 2001 that he died although the time/date of death was earlier

    You wrote:
    All logic points to Osama having died or being killed years prior

    You also wrote:
    What's vague is that they purported to have found him, killed him and then disposed of the body with no evidence that they did any of this.

    Which suggests you believe he was killed earlier and that you believe the whole 2011 raid was fake.

    If that's true, it's fascinating, so provide details and evidence of both claims.


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    #61
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    "Incredulity"

    Are YOU seeing a pattern? This is your go-to and always has been and it's a poor counter-argument.

    Your argument is that something couldn't have happened because you can't believe it happened. That is not a valid argument. That's a fallacy: argument from incredulity.
    I don't believe in the tooth-fairy either but you can argue until you are blue in the face that you went to bed with a tooth under your pillow and woke up with a shilling in its place and my incredulity should be dismissed because you know what must have happened.

    Is not argument from incredulity. This demonstrates you don't understand what it is.


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