Upcoming ASTI ballot on SLARS

Sir123 · 24-11-2019 9:41am

A very strong YES will hopefully be the result of this ballot.

I feel the appetite in general has gone in terms of strike and all that. We'll have to see if TUI strike in February, doubt they will though.

I feel the Equal Pay issue won't fully be resolved unless all 3 unions go out. It's not even just about Equal Pay. Sick leave has been cut dramatically, the job seems to have so much more pointless box ticking and ráiméis than ever before. Discipline is also getting worse, education standards are being diluted, the list goes on. Career average pension, got to go.

There's just so much wrong with the profession at the moment that we all need to stick together because in some way, we're all being effected by reform and increased workload.

acequion · 24-11-2019 3:22pm

And to add to Sir123's list they now want to abolish our flat rate expenses, effectively a pay cut by stealth!! I'm just gobsmacked at how apathetic people are about that as if they can afford to be paid even less!! Not to mention the impact on LPTs! My blood boils.:mad::mad:

See my thread on it and please sign the petition.

Bobtheman · 25-11-2019 8:38pm

PureClareGold wrote: »

SLARs have been some of the best professional conversations I've had with my colleagues. Structured well they are invaluable. I agree with the original poster re the risk of professional time being taken from us. In my school management are very flexible with the timing of SLARs. In many cases they have happened within school time as teachers happen to be off or due to block supervision at Christmas tests we've been able to work it that we can do it during the school day. That flexibility will be taken away from me in my situation if we vote yes. However I do appreciate that not everyone is as fortunate as me.

So Im assuming you have not given up extra time free time to Slars-you say happen to be off? Clarify
So if slars occur during your free periods-you are giving up free time-working for free.A managers dream

SligoBrewer · 26-11-2019 12:08am

Shout out to the lads who are using a SLAR ballot as a proxy to beat the one union who fought for LPTs from day 1.

Get involved if you think the ASTI aren't doing enough, because we aren't the ones holding back progress in this issue.

doc_17 · 26-11-2019 9:45pm

acequion wrote: »

Nobody was thrown under any bus by their colleagues and well you know it!!

And ending the linking of pay and pensions would be just another nail in the already well nailed coffin of those currently in this profession and its retirees. Is that what you want?

We will all retire if we don't die first!! So let's all stick together for a change!!

Post 04 were screwed royally. No full pension now until aged 68. Pre 04 get full pension when they retire, assuming they have worked the required no of years, no matter their age That was the trade off for the pay increase that time. That is undeniable. It is fact.

Post 11 were never threw under the bus by the Union. Apologies if you thought that’s you thought I meant.

doc_17 · 26-11-2019 9:49pm

acequion wrote: »

Nobody was thrown under any bus by their colleagues and well you know it!!

And ending the linking of pay and pensions would be just another nail in the already well nailed coffin of those currently in this profession and its retirees. Is that what you want?

We will all retire if we don't die first!! So let's all stick together for a change!!

I don’t want the link broken between between pay and pensions but I go to union meetings and officials say they are coming after it hard. They’ll have a plan and their plans have been better than ours for years.

acequion · 27-11-2019 1:30am

doc_17 wrote: »

Post 04 were screwed royally. No full pension now until aged 68. Pre 04 get full pension when they retire, assuming they have worked the required no of years, no matter their age That was the trade off for the pay increase that time. That is undeniable. It is fact.

Post 11 were never threw under the bus by the Union. Apologies if you thought that’s you thought I meant.

What do you mean by the emboldened above? What pay increase? We've got no pay increases since around the bench marking, last time 2007. All we're getting now is pay restoration. So do please clarify and apologies accepted, not trying to cause any row.

Also, shocking how they're trying to break the pay and pension link. But as it's been so long since there's been any pay rises, you'd wonder does it even matter! My mother is on a teacher's pension and has been saying for years how there has been nothing and how her widow's pension has actually increased more then her teacher's pension. Now lucky her to be on two pensions but it's not nice to lose your spouse at a young age as she did.

doc_17 · 27-11-2019 10:00pm

Pay rises were coming in through National Wage Agreements, government changed the pension arrangements for new entrants and not a bit was said or done about it. The Unions jus they it go because it didn’t affect them.

PureClareGold · 27-11-2019 11:40pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

So Im assuming you have not given up extra time free time to Slars-you say happen to be off? Clarify
So if slars occur during your free periods-you are giving up free time-working for free.A managers dream

But its not for free
I'm being paid for it. Our professional time is the equivalent of one full class contact week that has been taken from me without a reduction in my pay for it. That time is used for SLARs as well as other things so I'm not doing it for free

acequion · 28-11-2019 12:11am

PureClareGold, you really sound like a huge Dept sympathiser, ready and willing to do anything they decide we should do.

My experience teaching in a huge school of more than 1,200 plus pupils and all the contact with other other teachers that alone entails, plus liaising with teachers all over the country in my subject or union activities, is that your stance would be very much the exception. In fact the only ones I've come across with your views are those directly working for and giving the JCT in services. Everybody else feels overwhelmed and overburdened by it, as well as saddened by declining educational standards. Us having brilliant talks with our colleagues in the SLARS about how this johnny and that johnny is getting on and whether this guy gets an in line or above, makes feck all difference to their progress, or to use the new phraseology,achieving educational outcomes. It simply doesn't.

No doubt you'll be back all guns blazing about how you love the JCT but the plain fact is that your views are very much the exception.

km79 · 28-11-2019 12:12am

acequion wrote: »

PureClareGold, you really sound like a huge Dept sympathiser, ready and willing to do anything they decide we should do.

My experience teaching in a huge school of more than 1,200 plus pupils and all the contact with other other teachers that alone entails, plus liaising with teachers all over the country in my subject or union activities, is that your stance would be very much the exception. In fact the only ones I've come across with your views are those directly working for and giving the JCT in services. Everybody else feels overwhelmed and overburdened by it, as well as saddened by declining educational standards. Us having brilliant talks with our colleagues in the SLARS about how this johnny and that johnny is getting on and whether this guy gets an in line or above, makes feck all difference to their progress, or to use the new phraseology,achieving educational outcomes. It simply doesn't.

No doubt you'll be back all guns blazing about how you love the JCT but the plain fact is that your views are very much an exception.

Thanks for not quoting him/her
I can only imagine it was along the lines of the Lego Movie song as per usual
“Everything is awesome everything is cool with the new JC”

Benicetomonty · 28-11-2019 12:17am

PureClareGold wrote: »

But its not for free
I'm being paid for it. Our professional time is the equivalent of one full class contact week that has been taken from me without a reduction in my pay for it. That time is used for SLARs as well as other things so I'm not doing it for free

Professional time was set aside for teachers to get to grips with the new course- watch webinars, study the material, learn how to recite the learning objectives off by heart like a 5 year old might learn their maths tables..etc.
According to the agreement, a limited amount of your bundled time may be used to facilitate SLARS, but the word 'limited' is stressed. Nowhere is it stated or even implied that the entire allocation of professional time should be set aside to facilitate your quota of SLARS, and NO competent reading of the agreement can credibly arrive at this conclusion.

Id further argue that despite supposed intentions, the new jct has increased our workload significantly. In our place, we have been told that official, documented phone calls now have to be made to the parents of 3rd year students who are not 'cooperating' with the English CBA 2 for fear that the school will be blamed for the consequent effect this will have on their ATask and, by extension, their exam in June. Assigning computer rooms, facilitating students who arent in for the designated 3 wk period, trying to decide how xmas and summer exams are to be modified...and we're not even at a stage where all the subjects are even in! The whole thing is an absolute mess.

Anyway, to return to the topic, I wouldnt put it past them at all, but the dept would want to have some brazen cheek to threaten any union for simply insisting that the agreement is implemented according to what is written down in plain English. Surely, something needs to give at that point.

Benicetomonty · 28-11-2019 12:19am

km79 wrote: »

Thanks for not quoting him/her
I can only imagine it was along the lines of the Lego Movie song as per usual
“Everything is awesome everything is cool with the new JC”

Apologies ðŸ˜¶

Treppen · 28-11-2019 12:27am

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Professional time was set aside for teachers to get to grips with the new course- watch webinars, study the material, learn how to recite the learning objectives off by heart like a 5 year old might learn their maths tables..etc.
According to the agreement, a limited amount of your bundled time may be used to facilitate SLARS, but the word 'limited' is stressed. Nowhere is it stated or even implied that the entire allocation of professional time should be set aside to facilitate your quota of SLARS, and NO competent reading of the agreement can credibly arrive at this conclusion.

Id further argue that despite supposed intentions, the new jct has increased our workload significantly. In our place, we have been told that official, documented phone calls now have to be made to the parents of 3rd year students who are not 'cooperating' with the English CBA 2 for fear that the school will be blamed for the consequent effect this will have on their ATask and, by extension, their exam in June. Assigning computer rooms, facilitating students who arent in for the designated 3 wk period, trying to decide how xmas and summer exams are to be modified...and we're not even at a stage where all the subjects are even in! The whole thing is an absolute mess.

Anyway, to return to the topic, I wouldnt put it past them at all, but the dept would want to have some brazen cheek to threaten any union for simply insisting that the agreement is implemented according to what is written down in plain English. Surely, something needs to give at that point.

Have schools been allocated any sub hours for slars?

acequion · 28-11-2019 6:46pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Pay rises were coming in through National Wage Agreements, government changed the pension arrangements for new entrants and not a bit was said or done about it. The Unions jus they it go because it didn’t affect them.

But pay rises were not coming through at that stage. The last pay rise we got was in 07 and not only did the cuts start in 08, but a rise which was due under the pay agreements, "Sustaining Progress," I think it was called, was shelved.

Then after a load of cuts we had the CP agreement which did protect those in the profession from further pay cuts but during that period the Govt decided to shaft new entrants. True, unions didn't react but the Troika were at the door, at the time universally expected to savage us all so it's not surprising there wasn't a whisper out of anyone. Everyone was petrified and it sure was not the moment to kick up a fuss. Maybe not an excuse but again remember that the new entrant cuts were brought in from the Dail floor so it's not like we were given any say on the matter. Many activists in all unions have since been fighting, even striking on behalf of LPTs.

doc_17 · 03-12-2019 9:27pm

acequion wrote: »

But pay rises were not coming through at that stage. The last pay rise we got was in 07 and not only did the cuts start in 08, but a rise which was due under the pay agreements, "Sustaining Progress," I think it was called, was shelved.

Then after a load of cuts we had the CP agreement which did protect those in the profession from further pay cuts but during that period the Govt decided to shaft new entrants. True, unions didn't react but the Troika were at the door, at the time universally expected to savage us all so it's not surprising there wasn't a whisper out of anyone. Everyone was petrified and it sure was not the moment to kick up a fuss. Maybe not an excuse but again remember that the new entrant cuts were brought in from the Dail floor so it's not like we were given any say on the matter. Many activists in all unions have since been fighting, even striking on behalf of LPTs.

I’m talking specifically about the deal done in 03, the year before I started teaching. Anyone starting in 04 or with a break in service for 6 months had to work 40 years and can’t receive their state old age pension part if they retire early before 68.

I agree entirely with your description of events from 2008.

MacGyver007 · 04-12-2019 5:32pm

Result of SLAR Ballot:

Yes 93%
No 7%
Turnout 55%

acequion · 04-12-2019 8:26pm

The yes really was a no brainer. But you'd still wonder at the 7% who voted no. People will never cease to amaze me :eek:

Icsics · 04-12-2019 8:43pm

acequion wrote: »

The yes really was a no brainer. But you'd still wonder at the 7% who voted no. People will never cease to amaze me :eek:

Ps & VPs who will never set foot in a SLAR, but don’t want to be organizing cover for them either

MacGyver007 · 03-01-2020 4:29pm

The directive has been issued, effective from Monday

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/asti-directive-on-slar-meetings/

Icsics · 03-01-2020 5:22pm

MacGyver007 wrote: »

The directive has been issued, effective from Monday

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/asti-directive-on-slar-meetings/

Good, nice & clear too

km79 · 03-01-2020 5:29pm

Icsics wrote: »

Good, nice & clear too

Is it .........
“And a limited number may run beyond school tuition hours “

So who decided which ones do and which ones don’t ?
Or how many is a limited number ?

It is too ambiguous

Icsics · 03-01-2020 5:54pm

km79 wrote: »

Is it .........
“And a limited number may run beyond school tuition hours “

So who decided which ones do and which ones don’t ?
Or how many is a limited number ?

It is too ambiguous

I think that last bit has to be in it so we don’t ‘repudiate’ the agreement

km79 · 03-01-2020 6:06pm

Icsics wrote: »

I think that last bit has to be in it so we don’t ‘repudiate’ the agreement

I understand that alright
But
It is there

So who will decide what these “limited number “ are ......

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 03-01-2020 6:14pm

Beaulieu wrote: »

Must SLARS be 2 hours in length?

I was in charge of our first English SLAR meeting in 2018....It lasted 1.5 hrs

In 2019 it lasted for about 22 mins.

Personally, I’ll be disgusted if the next one clocks in at over 15 minutes.

You get the idea...Unions need to pick their battles...SLARs are not worth getting excited about.They are as straightforward or as complicated as a subject Dept chooses to make them.

2011abc · 03-01-2020 8:01pm

Km79 and sheaP both highlight the idiocy of this ballot /'campaign' .The 'limited number' thing makes a farce of it with only one per subject /year and of course it was always a sham to hide the fact pay inequality ( and devastated conditions) are now PERMANENT .

Treppen · 04-01-2020 3:22am

Zariyah Whining King wrote: »

I was in charge of our first English SLAR meeting in 2018....It lasted 1.5 hrs

In 2019 it lasted for about 22 mins.

Personally, I’ll be disgusted if the next one clocks in at over 15 minutes.

You get the idea...Unions need to pick their battles...SLARs are not worth getting excited about.They are as straightforward or as complicated as a subject Dept chooses to make them.

Your forgetting that in some schools the "subject department" don't get the luxury of deciding.

Treppen · 04-01-2020 3:30am

It's up to Union members to look around at other subject departments within a school.

Is everybody / some being told that they must meet after school. If that's the case then it's breaking the agreement.

So if a few (which I would take to mean a limited number) run over into extra time then that seems reasonable.

It's simply a reminder to those in schools on what was agreed upon, as it seems some schools are taking the proverbial by refusing meetings to take place during school time.... Or refusing cover be granted while meetings need to take place.

coillsaille · 06-01-2020 9:15am

km79 wrote: »

Is it .........
“And a limited number may run beyond school tuition hours “

So who decided which ones do and which ones don’t ?
Or how many is a limited number ?

It is too ambiguous

The Q&A document on the union website actually gives a lot more clarity than the directive itself. They give various examples of SLAR situations and say whether members should attend or not.

It seems that the SLAR must be scheduled to start AND end within tuition time. If some run past that scheduled end time into after school time then that can be overlooked for "a limited number" of meetings. But none can be scheduled to run past tuition time.

Millem · 07-01-2020 8:22pm

What is happening in a mixed union department?

Upcoming ASTI ballot on SLARS

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