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Secondary school teaching

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  • 28-11-2019 3:47pm
    #1
    Sheehan123
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭


    Hi all, I am seriously thinking of becoming a secondary school teacher as i am in first year of college doing maths science at the moment and am not liking it. I’ve heard many people saying teaching has horrible salary for NQT’s and that the holidays aren’t as good as they seem. I’ve looked up the salary and it seems as if starting salary is 36,000 and highest salary is 69000. Is this correct? That seems very high given that the national average is 35000. Could anyone give me an inside into this? Would you recommend me to go into teaching? Would you recommend primary or secondary? Thanks a million


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    #2
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    You won't start on that salary, it'll be a pro-rata amount based on the number of hours you work.

    I'm not a teacher, but if it's the salary and holidays that attracts you then I'd give it a lot more thought.


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    #3
    Sheehan123
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Sheehan123


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    You won't start on that salary, it'll be a pro-rata amount based on the number of hours you work.

    I'm not a teacher, but if it's the salary and holidays that attracts you then I'd give it a lot more thought.


    Sorry I should clarify! I know I would love teaching, I give unpayed grinds to my younger cousins, do homework club with my neighbours kids and teach sailing in the summers. I would love the job I’m just scared that I’ll regret my decision if the pay is awful when I know that I could earn good money doing my maths degree. Would you know in how many years I’d start the salary scale?


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    #4
    AJG
    Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭AJG


    Sheehan123 wrote: »
    I know I would love teaching, I give unpayed grinds to my younger cousins, do homework club with my neighbours kids and teach sailing in the summers.

    There's a huge difference between this and standing in front of a class of up to 30 students... with a percentage who don't want to be in your class in the first place and will let you know all about it.

    With regards to the salary question... who knows... you could be subbing for a few years or you could get lucky.

    I think it would be advisable to get some experience working in schools. I know when I started out (I qualified as secondary teacher but no longer work in that capacity) I worked as a classroom supervisor for teacher absences (before they changed the rules/teaching council, etc.) for about 18 months. A bit of a trial by fire but it gave me a realistic picture of what standing in front of a class was like.


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    #5
    Sheehan123
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Sheehan123


    AJG wrote: »
    There's a huge difference between this and standing in front of a class of up to 30 students... with a percentage who don't want to be in your class in the first place and will let you know all about it.

    With regards to the salary question... who knows... you could be subbing for a few years or you could get lucky.

    I think it would be advisable to get some experience working in schools. I know when I started out (I qualified as secondary teacher but no longer work in that capacity) I worked as a classroom supervisor for teacher absences (before they changed the rules/teaching council, etc.) for about 18 months. A bit of a trial by fire but it gave me a realistic picture of what standing in front of a class was like.

    Just out of interest why do you no longer work as a teacher?


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    #6
    AJG
    Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭AJG


    Sheehan123 wrote: »
    Just out of interest why do you no longer work as a teacher?

    Long story... mostly down to the lack of hours it forced me out of Ireland. Went to the U.K. That's a whole other nightmare.

    I now work as a private tutor internationally. Mostly home schooling and getting HNW/UHNW into British boarding schools. It's pretty niche work but I enjoy it.

    I'm just about to leave Hong Kong via London (interviews for the new year) to Germany (GCSE revision for a student over Christmas).

    So I'm still teaching but not in the classroom.


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    #7
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    As I have said here many times, I would not encourage anyone I cared about to go into teaching.


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    #8
    Sheehan123
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Sheehan123


    spurious wrote: »
    As I have said here many times, I would not encourage anyone I cared about to go into teaching.

    Are you in teaching yourself? What are the reasons you have for saying this?


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    #9
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Sheehan123 wrote: »
    Are you in teaching yourself? What are the reasons you have for saying this?

    Exorbitant fees to qualify.
    When you qualify, unless very lucky, subbing and moving schools. So good luck to you getting a mortgage.
    Also be prepared to work on low wages especially LPT pay. You may pick up RPT contracts but prepare yourself for salary less summers.
    Recruitment in education is a joke.
    When you do get that job/few hours, as well as your teaching, be prepared to jump when the principal shouts so that you get back the following year that could be sport, evening study etc.
    The decimation of education in our country with the introduction of the Junior Cycle reform. God help us when they start with the Leaving.
    Croke Park - a useless excuse also known as teacher detention.
    Powerlessness - don't expect a principal to back you up with student/teacher complaints.
    The ever increasing of paper work we have to do for pointless inspections.

    That's an initial list, don't forget the bullying, backstabbing and childlike behaviours of some of the people you will work with.


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    #10
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Sheehan123 wrote:
    Are you in teaching yourself? What are the reasons you have for saying this?

    I was in teaching for almost 30 years. I got tired of the abuse, verbal and physical, the worsening of conditions generally. I got tired of watching the 5% ruining the school experience for the 95%. I got tired of having academic standards for some groups who others were quite happy to expect little of. I got tired of management apparently unable to do anything to protect staff.

    It was not the job I went into, it's certainly not 'Dead Poet's Society' and as Abba said 'It just wasn't fun anymore' so I got out as early as I could. I got out before it damaged my health and well-being.

    My job was split in three when I left. That is the reality of the casualisation of teaching.


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    #11
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Go for it OP if you think it is for you.
    The country will always need teachers and with a subject like maths you will be in higher demand than others

    As you say it's a solid salary, unlikely to be matched in a lot of other industries especially outside of Dublin..

    A lot of the negativity you hear is simply propaganda by using part time hours as a lever to try drive up salaries for all NQTs, full time or not. You'll rarely hear the positives of the job from teachers in the media so don't let it all put you off totally.

    Look into CID if you have not heard of it, it gives you full time salary even if you don't fully obtain all 22 hours. Grinds are as popular as ever so you can use those to supplement your income as well as doing exam marking, etc.

    Look into where the shortages are but it is around the Dublin area that experiencing huge population growth of pupils.

    Do try and get some experience but be sure you have a think skin and a tough temperament to put up with some difficult youngsters.

    Don't forget there is some good classes as well like the Higher Level LC full of high achievers that are there to learn.

    I know a couple of teachers and would recommend it as much as any other job if not more so.


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    #12
    Sheehan123
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Sheehan123


    salonfire wrote: »
    Go for it OP if you think it is for you.
    The country will always need teachers and with a subject like maths you will be in higher demand than others

    As you say it's a solid salary, unlikely to be matched in a lot of other industries especially outside of Dublin..

    A lot of the negativity you hear is simply propaganda by using part time hours as a lever to try drive up salaries for all NQTs, full time or not. You'll rarely hear the positives of the job from teachers in the media so don't let it all put you off totally.

    Look into CID if you have not heard of it, it gives you full time salary even if you don't fully obtain all 22 hours. Grinds are as popular as ever so you can use those to supplement your income as well as doing exam marking, etc.

    Look into where the shortages are but it is around the Dublin area that experiencing huge population growth of pupils.

    Do try and get some experience but be sure you have a think skin and a tough temperament to put up with some difficult youngsters.

    Don't forget there is some good classes as well like the Higher Level LC full of high achievers that are there to learn.

    I know a couple of teachers and would recommend it as much as any other job if not more so.

    Thank you so much :)


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    #13
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I hope it works out for you. At least you have been told the truth of the situation by actual teachers. Research the numbers pumping out of the PME courses, especially Hibernia. Work out where they are all going to fit.


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    #14
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    spurious wrote: »
    I hope it works out for you. At least you have been told the truth of the situation by actual teachers. Research the numbers pumping out of the PME courses, especially Hibernia. Work out where they are all going to fit.

    Really?

    I didn't see any teacher mention CID until I brought it up.


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    #15
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    A CID of 18 hours is great. Try living on one for 12, or on casual part time hours. As has been pointed out MANY times before, very few people are lucky enough to get a full or nearly full hours CID on exit from college. CID is not some magic bullet. In fact if you have one for say, 14 hours and you want to move to try for a higher hours one in another school, you go back and start the process all over again. Madness.


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    #16
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Sheehan123 wrote: »
    Hi all, I am seriously thinking of becoming a secondary school teacher as i am in first year of college doing maths science at the moment and am not liking it. I’ve heard many people saying teaching has horrible salary for NQT’s and that the holidays aren’t as good as they seem. I’ve looked up the salary and it seems as if starting salary is 36,000 and highest salary is 69000. Is this correct? That seems very high given that the national average is 35000. Could anyone give me an inside into this? Would you recommend me to go into teaching? Would you recommend primary or secondary? Thanks a million

    Who says the salary is horrible?

    It is not.

    National average full-time earnings are 45k approx, not 35k, but that 45k includes overtime and ir-regular earnings, and is for FT workers only.

    The starting wage is 36k approx, yes, but few teachers start on full hours.


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    #17
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Sheehan123 wrote: »
    Thank you so much :)

    Keep in mind salonfire isn't a teacher so their experience is second hand.


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    #18
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    OP if you are interested go for it. Most teachers live in the cocoon of the school canteen. Most feel under paid and hard worked.. Yes depending on subjects it is hard to get the 18 hour contract. Math's is different if you have a decent math's degree and teaching qualifications you will always get work.

    Most negativity in teaching similar to negativity in those with qualification in public service jobs is that they think they deserve doctor's, vets, bankers...etc... wages for public service hours and conditions.

    As a math's graduate yes you have options outside teaching you have tried them and dislike those options. Yes as a teacher, there is hassle and problems like every other job. But you are looking at a about a 37-40 week year. and a 22 hour working week. Yes you will need to spend 6-8 hours/week on other work correcting homework, doing lunch time supervision etc but there is added extra's such as grinds, exam supervision and after hour supervision not extremely well paid but it adds to the wage over the first few years.

    Life is about choice you have to make scarifices for those choices. The first 10-15 years are the hardest but after that life can be comfortable.

    Life is all about choices.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #19
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Sheehan123 wrote:
    I am in first year of college doing maths science at the moment and am not liking it.

    What do you not like? College or your subjects?


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    #20
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Math's is different if you have a decent math's degree

    Most negativity in teaching similar to negativity in those with qualification in public service jobs is that they think they deserve doctor's, vets, bankers...etc... wages for public service hours and conditions.

    As a math's graduate but there is added extra's such as grinds, exam supervision and after hour supervision not extremely well paid but it adds to the wage over the first few years.

    I hope you're not a teacher!!!!


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    #21
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Geuze wrote: »
    I hope you're not a teacher!!!!

    They're not.

    So far it's 2 non+teachers recommending teaching and actual teachers recommending caution.


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