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Tenant applying for HAP Payment

  • 24-09-2020 11:21am
    #1
    zefer
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭


    Hi All

    I've been informed by agent that manages my property that tenant (who has been there a few years and is reliable) has been put on short term hours and is now entitled to apply for HAP Payment.

    I'm looking for perspectives from both sides as to the implications for me in this.
    Do I have to agree to it? Is it usually guaranteed payment? Should I be worried?

    Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    zefer wrote: »
    Hi All

    I've been informed by agent that manages my property that tenant (who has been there a few years and is reliable) has been put on short term hours and is now entitled to apply for HAP Payment.

    I'm looking for perspectives from both sides as to the implications for me in this.
    Do I have to agree to it? Is it usually guaranteed payment? Should I be worried?

    Thanks

    You don't have a choice in the matter under the discrimination laws. If you try anything besides agreement, in the eyes of the state its the same as denying them a service on the basis of their skin color.
    If the tenant is reliable and financially sound and pay their bit to the council, it usually works out.
    The major problem with HAP is council visits to inspect property and unreasonable demands that come with large bills.


  • #3
    Sonrisa
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Sonrisa


    I don't think you've any reason to be worried.

    It guarantees a certain amount of the payment as the Council will pay it directly to your account. If there is an excess the tenant will still need to pay that to you. Ask them how much they think it will be entitled to.

    The inspections are re the standards all properties are meant to meet anyway and aren't anything too crazy: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html


  • #4
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    You don't have a choice in the matter under the discrimination laws. If you try anything besides agreement, in the eyes of the state its the same as denying them a service on the basis of their skin color.
    If the tenant is reliable and financially sound and pay their bit to the council, it usually works out.
    The major problem with HAP is council visits to inspect property and unreasonable demands that come with large bills.


    I second this..what you think as been in good repair etc turns out to be a list of stuff that is unnecessary. You only poney up


  • #5
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    It will be guaranteed payment from the council, but the Hap payment alone may not cover the rent and in that case the tenant will have to make up the shortfall to you.

    A bit of red tape at the beginning with the application for you, but also worth noting the tenant will have to be approved for social housing before getting HAP. This can take upwards of 12 weeks in some authorities and another 4 for HAP approval. If the tenants income has recently changed to put them in the threshold for receiving hap then it's highly unlikely they were social housing approved on the higher income.

    Biggest annoyance for you will be the inspections, which most local authorities are taking a lot more seriously.


  • #6
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    zefer wrote: »
    Hi All

    I've been informed by agent that manages my property that tenant (who has been there a few years and is reliable) has been put on short term hours and is now entitled to apply for HAP Payment.

    I'm looking for perspectives from both sides as to the implications for me in this.
    Do I have to agree to it? Is it usually guaranteed payment? Should I be worried?

    Thanks

    You have no choice in the matter, and you should know that really.


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  • #7
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    It will be guaranteed payment from the council, but the Hap payment alone may not cover the rent and in that case the tenant will have to make up the shortfall to you.

    A bit of red tape at the beginning with the application for you, but also worth noting the tenant will have to be approved for social housing before getting HAP. This can take upwards of 12 weeks in some authorities and another 4 for HAP approval. If the tenants income has recently changed to put them in the threshold for receiving hap then it's highly unlikely they were social housing approved on the higher income.

    Biggest annoyance for you will be the inspections, which most local authorities are taking a lot more seriously.

    That's the mistake I see over and over here. HAP is not guaranteed. If the tenants stops paying the council HAP stops.


  • #8
    stinkbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭stinkbomb


    handlemaster wrote: »
    That's the mistake I see over and over here. HAP is not guaranteed. If the tenants stops paying the council HAP stops.

    I don't understand this point, which is always made on these threads. It's not wrong, HAP is not guaranteed, and if the tenant stops paying, HAP stops paying, you get no rent. But no rent is guaranteed, if any tenant stops paying, you get no rent.
    Ergo, HAP rent is the same as any rent.

    As for inspections and the alleged costly improvements, its nonsense. The requirements for HAP are the same standards for ALL rental properties. If there are things you need to do, you need to do them anyway, for any tenant.

    When ll's complain about the money they had to spend, one can only assume that their properties were in a very poor state to begin with.


  • #9
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Sonrisa wrote: »
    I don't think you've any reason to be worried.

    It guarantees a certain amount of the payment as the Council will pay it directly to your account. If there is an excess the tenant will still need to pay that to you. Ask them how much they think it will be entitled to.

    The inspections are re the standards all properties are meant to meet anyway and aren't anything too crazy: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

    Depends on what you think your obligations as a landlord are
    Some do and some don't
    I know of one case where the tenant was happy but council would not pass property.
    Tenant was blissfully unaware of his rights and the LL was not going to inform him of same


  • #10
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    It will be guaranteed payment from the council, but the Hap payment alone may not cover the rent and in that case the tenant will have to make up the shortfall to you.

    A bit of red tape at the beginning with the application for you, but also worth noting the tenant will have to be approved for social housing before getting HAP. This can take upwards of 12 weeks in some authorities and another 4 for HAP approval. If the tenants income has recently changed to put them in the threshold for receiving hap then it's highly unlikely they were social housing approved on the higher income.

    Biggest annoyance for you will be the inspections, which most local authorities are taking a lot more seriously.

    How seriously
    As in making sure they meet basic habitable standards ??
    I would have thought all rentals nowadays meet these standards


  • #11
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    stinkbomb wrote: »
    I don't understand this point, which is always made on these threads. It's not wrong, HAP is not guaranteed, and if the tenant stops paying, HAP stops paying, you get no rent. But no rent is guaranteed, if any tenant stops paying, you get no rent.
    Ergo, HAP rent is the same as any rent.

    As for inspections and the alleged costly improvements, its nonsense. The requirements for HAP are the same standards for ALL rental properties. If there are things you need to do, you need to do them anyway, for any tenant.

    When ll's complain about the money they had to spend, one can only assume that their properties were in a very poor state to begin with.

    But if you dont want to spend the money you can tell a private tenant you need the property for a "family member "
    You cannot do that with HAP


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  • #12
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    You have no choice in the matter, and you should know that really.

    The op does have a choice in the matter. They can live there.


  • #13
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    The op does have a choice in the matter. They can live there.

    Or say they are selling or need the property for a family member


  • #14
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    brisan wrote: »
    How seriously
    As in making sure they meet basic habitable standards ??
    I would have thought all rentals nowadays meet these standards

    Exactly, the council insists that the rental is up to scratch and safe to live in.
    Childproof locks on upstairs windows, smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, fire blankets, safe electric circuits, boiler services up date.

    All expenses are deductible, are things you should probably have anyway and a lot better than being the landlord where something untoward happens. People die from carbon monoxide poisoning, kids fall out of upstairs windows...



    I should add, I’ve been getting HAP for a number of years. I’m very happy with it, it’s a lot easier for a tenant to come up with the small amount to pay the council than it is to pay you. If they can’t afford 50euro a week to the council, or whatever it is, then they certainly can’t afford the 250plus or whatever it is to pay you.

    The only downside is the delay in getting paid, you get the rent at the end of the month instead of the start, but you know that in advance and just workaround it.


  • #15
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Exactly, the council insists that the rental is up to scratch and safe to live in.
    Childproof locks on upstairs windows, smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, fire blankets, safe electric circuits, boiler services up date.

    All expenses are deductible, are things you should probably have anyway and a lot better than being the landlord where something untoward happens. People die from carbon monoxide poisoning, kids fall out of upstairs windows...



    I should add, I’ve been getting HAP for a number of years. I’m very happy with it, it’s a lot easier for a tenant to come up with the small amount to pay the council than it is to pay you. If they can’t afford 50euro a week to the council, or whatever it is, then they certainly can’t afford the 250plus or whatever it is to pay you.

    The only downside is the delay in getting paid, you get the rent at the end of the month instead of the start, but you know that in advance and just workaround it.

    I would say the percentage of private landlords whose properties meet all the criteria you mentioned is quite small


  • #16
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    brisan wrote: »
    I would say the percentage of private landlords whose properties meet all the criteria you mentioned is quite small

    Possibly.

    But as a LL it gives me peace of mind that my house has been inspected by a Council engineer and meets the required standard for letting. If anything was to happen a member of the family that is in there, young kids included I would know what it wasn’t because I tried to save a few quid on something.


  • #17
    mel123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭mel123


    Do they always come out to look at the property?

    My tenant went on HAP maybe two months ago, and i have not heard a dickie bird from them, and i know they would have recommendations.


  • #18
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    They have a web site you follow whats on it and you'll be fine. At the start of the pandemic I had to help tenants apply for Rent Allowance which I though had been replaced by HAP but apparently not. The biggest problem is that it can take 4 months before they start to pay so you need to make it clear to the tenant that they are still responsible for the rent until they get approved. At they either back pay you and you refund the tenant. If they come back with a massive list of repairs then say they cost of the repairs makes it unviable and the property no longer meets their needs. Sorry good but. When I looked at it, it was for a house in flats I manage for my mother, there is a common heating system so I reckoned I'd need to get some IR panel heaters installed which might cost a grand that could be offset against tax. The biggest thing is you have to be fully tax compliant.


  • #19
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You will still need to carry out the repairs whether the HAP/RA tenant remains or not. The requirement to meet the standard does not go away if the HAP/RA tenant moves out and is replaced with another.


  • #20
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    You will still need to carry out the repairs whether the HAP/RA tenant remains or not. The requirement to meet the standard does not go away if the HAP/RA tenant moves out and is replaced with another.

    The obligation does not go away but the need or desire to often does


  • #21
    zefer
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭zefer


    OP here,
    Thanks for the input. Can I just say I am not worried about the inspection, property is in great knick and as its an apartment, there isn't the issues that you are talking about to worry about.

    My query was more to do with if it left me with worries about paying my mortgage if there was an issue with payment from HAP


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  • #22
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    HAP payments always go out. If the tenant has kept up with your rent so far, little reason to think that they won't be able to afford the 15 percent of income to HAP.

    The question for you is whether the Hap payment covers all of your rent. It might not, and the tenant will still have to make up the difference to you between the rent amount and the hap payment.


  • #23
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    You need to check what the cap is that HAP will cover. It depends on the number of people and the area. Those rates are published and they tenants have to cover anything above that.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html#l4292e


  • #24
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    brisan wrote: »
    How seriously
    As in making sure they meet basic habitable standards ??
    I would have thought all rentals nowadays meet these standards

    Sadly no. The place I rented before this was not up to standard in several ways. I was on Rent Allowance but there were no checks.


  • #25
    Saudades
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    HAP is better for the landlord in that the risk of non-payment of rent is lowered. The council covers a portion of the tenant's rent, thus the tenants monthly expenses are lowered, so there is less chance of the tenant defaulting on their rental payments.


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