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Can we make an offer on a property under another name?

  • 29-06-2020 11:11am
    #1
    martin18
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭


    Hello there, we are looking to move to a specific small town out west and buy a home there. However, quite a few of the asking prices seem unrealistic (and many have been on the market for ages, even years). We'd like to try and offer a fair bit below the asking price on a few of them but we are wary of upsetting people in the area, which would not be a good idea in a small town you plan to live in for many years.

    Having never bought a home before, we're wondering if it might be possible to make an offer through a friend with a different surname - that way if it's rejected it won't blow back on us. Is that legally possible do you think?

    Thanks a million.


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Comments

  • #2
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    martin18 wrote: »
    Hello there, we are looking to move to a specific small town out west and buy a home there. However, quite a few of the asking prices seem unrealistic (and many have been on the market for ages, even years). We'd like to try and offer a fair bit below the asking price on a few of them but we are wary of upsetting people in the area, which would not be a good idea in a small town you plan to live in for many years.

    Having never bought a home before, we're wondering if it might be possible to make an offer through a friend with a different surname - that way if it's rejected it won't blow back on us. Is that legally possible do you think?

    Thanks a million.

    To be honest, when buying our house and selling at no stage would either estate identify the purchaser/seller due to GDPR. There is no good reason the person selling needs to know, you can always bid on a property under the preface of anonymity. Alternatively you could engage an agent to do it on your behalf. Id guess in a small town though you might see information leaking out


  • #3
    martin18
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭martin18


    Thanks a million, Duffman, very helpful. But maybe I can bring you further back to the basics as honestly we are starting out after living overseas and have pretty much no idea how the buying process works here at home.

    When you refer to "estate", who is that exactly given that noone is representing us?
    I thought buyers submitted offers directly rather than through the solicitor?
    How would anonymity work exactly?
    Submitting offers via a friend doesn't sound like an option then?

    thanks again!


  • #4
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,065 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Potential buyers submit offers to the estate agent representing the seller.

    The estate agent does not pass any names to the vendor.

    I sold a house during last five years.

    I never knew the name of the buyer.

    I had no reason to see or know their name.

    It may have been on the contract, and I could maybe have had that on front of me for 1 minute.


  • #5
    martin18
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭martin18


    Oh lovely, Geuze, see my knowledge is at a very basic level!

    I'm 99% sure in this case, though that our name would get through if we went directly to the estate agent in this town. So what could we do to preserve anonymity under those circumstances, anyone?


  • #6
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,065 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    martin18 wrote: »
    Oh lovely, Geuze, see my knowledge is at a very basic level!

    I'm 99% sure in this case, though that our name would get through if we went directly to the estate agent in this town. So what could we do to preserve anonymity under those circumstances, anyone?


    You walk into house during viewing.

    Agent is in the house.

    You do this twice.

    You chat with agent.

    You make an offer.

    Yes, the agent will want your name / e-mail / phone number.

    The agent may ask about AIP.

    The agent should not pass your personal details to the vendor.

    What the agent will want to suss out is:

    are you a serious buyer?
    are you in a chain?
    do you have the funds?


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  • #7
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,347 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    You could probably engage a solicitor to engage with the agent for you but it would be expensive.


  • #8
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    As awec says, get the solicitor to bid on your behalf. Plenty of people do this.


  • #9
    martin18
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭martin18


    Thanks very much again. So it would have to be a solicitor rather than a friend, even before offer is accepted?


  • #10
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,347 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    martin18 wrote: »
    Thanks very much again. So it would have to be a solicitor rather than a friend, even before offer is accepted?

    I think it would need to be a solicitor for the estate agent to think you're a serious buyer.


  • #11
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,096 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I'd go have a sit-down chat with the local estate agents before you start putting in bids. They'll tell you what can be bought for what price. They know some sellers won't budge etc. It's good to get a relationship going and they'll know your genuine.
    Where out west you looking I'm noticing prices climb along the west coast.


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  • #12
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    martin18 wrote: »
    Thanks very much again. So it would have to be a solicitor rather than a friend, even before offer is accepted?

    Doesn't have to be a solicitor, friend will suffice. There is very little regulation regarding house purchase/selling during the offer stages. I could offer 2 million for a property and then when the offer is accepted I can change my mind and offer 350k...

    It's perfectly reasonable for an intermediary (friend) to view/make offer. Selling agent may, at a later date, look for proof of funds. There is no obligation to provide this. However there is no obligation for selling agent to accept your bid, even of it's highest, if they think the sale won't progress.

    Your objective should be to satisfy the selling agent as to your bona fides while maintaining your anonymity. It can be done!


  • #13
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I'd go have a sit-down chat with the local estate agents before you start putting in bids. They'll tell you what can be bought for what price. They know some sellers won't budge etc. It's good to get a relationship going and they'll know your genuine.
    Where out west you looking I'm noticing prices climb along the west coast.

    Don't forget the estate agent is acting for the seller, not the buyer! Their best interests lie in securing the best deal for their client (the seller!)


  • #14
    davo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭davo2001


    Why don't you just make the offer yourself and if it's rejected increase the offer? I don't really understand why you want to go down the cloak and dagger route!


  • #15
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,096 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    KaneToad wrote: »
    Don't forget the estate agent is acting for the seller, not the buyer! Their best interests lie in securing the best deal for their client (the seller!)

    There trying to sell as well, if you can build up an initial rapport with them it's no harm. I don't trust them as far as I'd throw them, I know the last one was bull****ting me when a mystery bidder appeared the morning we'd hoped to close, drove me up nearly 20k in an hour but I played along we wanted the house and still thought it was good value and didn't want to get into a bidding war with anyone, was content to bid against the fake bidder as opposed to 20 real ones to get it off the market as quick as possible. We'd tried buying other ones in the area but there were just too many bidders.


  • #16
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,698 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    martin18 wrote: »
    We'd like to try and offer a fair bit below the asking price on a few of them but we are wary of upsetting people in the area,

    I don't understand this bit - why would making a lowball offer upset anybody? The seller will either accept it or reject it. Nobody else in the town will know or care


  • #17
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    My mother sold her house a few years ago she knew exactly what two people were bidding on it. The estate agent told her exactly who they were. She sold to the one with the slightly slower offer as she didn’t like the other person and didn’t want to be their neighbour (she was building another house very close by). So I doubt there’s any guarantees that they won’t be passing on that information, especially in a small town


  • #18
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,065 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    martin18 wrote: »
    We'd like to try and offer a fair bit below the asking price on a few of them but we are wary of upsetting people in the area, which would not be a good idea in a small town you plan to live in for many years.

    Vendors should not be getting upset at low offers.

    They simply reject them, and await the next higher offer.


  • #19
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Geuze wrote: »
    Vendors should not be getting upset at low offers.

    They simply reject them, and await the next higher offer.

    They shouldn't, but they do.

    A lot of people buying/selling property, especially if it is PPR, do so emotively. Great offence is taken that you don't see the value in their decorative upgrades and beautiful rose bushes.


  • #20
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,065 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    KaneToad wrote: »
    They shouldn't, but they do.

    A lot of people buying/selling property, especially if it is PPR, do so emotively. Great offence is taken that you don't see the value in their decorative upgrades and beautiful rose bushes.

    Ok.

    But a buyer will never know this.

    I buyer will simply hear back from the agent: "sorry, your offer is not accepted, it's too low"


  • #21
    Idle Passerby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Idle Passerby


    Theres no need for all the subterfuge. If you make an offer that's too low the agent will simply tell you the seller won't sell for that price and ask if your willing to go higher. If it's a case you aren't prepared to go as high as the seller wants the agent will likely direct you towards other properties that are in your price bracket. If the property's been on the market years the seller will be very familiar with rejecting offers they consider too low. I can't imagine why people in the locality would give two hoots what prospective buyers are offering.

    Editing to add: Also, the agent will tell you what the highest offer so far on the property is, and whether the seller is entertaining it or not.


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  • #22
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,347 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    If anything the smoke and mirrors is likely to attract more attention.


  • #23
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    One thing is for sure. In rural Ireland when you put in an offer on a property that hasn't been moving within 48 hours the shysters of an estate agent will be back to say they have just got an offer in for the asking price well above yours.


  • #24
    Draco
    Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    A heads up though - the estate agents I'm talking to at the moment (over the last 3 weeks) have all asked for AIP before even showing a property as the COVID19 logistics are onerous. On top of that when I was last buying a house (5 years ago) none of my bids were entertained without providing the AIP. This is all in Dublin city center so your mileage may vary.


  • #25
    martin18
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭martin18


    Thanks everyone. Maybe there is no need for the subterfuge, but my concern would be what KaneToad says - someone thinks their house is simply beautiful whereas I'd have to completely overhaul it to be able to live there long term, so of course it's worth less to me than they might like. And my partner, whose family is from the area, thinks people might well get offended and pass round the word. But yes, it's possible we're overdoing the concern.

    We are cash buyers up to a certain level so at least that will give us a little bit of an edge.

    IdlePasserby, you say that "the agent will tell you what the highest offer so far on the property is, and whether the seller is entertaining it or not", but from everything I've read about EAs in Ireland, such information is not to be trusted, as underlined by Edgeware. I don't know if that's fair, though? One cheap property I'm interested in, the price has escalated by $25k in 2 weeks, but I'm having trouble gauging whether the bidding war is real (EA kind of fluffed whether they'd had an offer at the current price as listed online)...


  • #26
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,347 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    martin18 wrote: »
    Thanks everyone. Maybe there is no need for the subterfuge, but my concern would be what KaneToad says - someone thinks their house is simply beautiful whereas I'd have to completely overhaul it to be able to live there long term, so of course it's worth less to me than they might like. And my partner, whose family is from the area, thinks people might well get offended and pass round the word. But yes, it's possible we're overdoing the concern.

    We are cash buyers up to a certain level so at least that will give us a little bit of an edge.

    IdlePasserby, you say that "the agent will tell you what the highest offer so far on the property is, and whether the seller is entertaining it or not", but from everything I've read about EAs in Ireland, such information is not to be trusted, as underlined by Edgeware. I don't know if that's fair, though? One cheap property I'm interested in, the price has escalated by $25k in 2 weeks, but I'm having trouble gauging whether the bidding war is real (EA kind of fluffed whether they'd had an offer at the current price as listed online)...
    It is almost certainly real.

    Everyone always thinks there's something underhand when they get outbid, and in the overwhelming majority of cases they've just been outbid fair and square. It's just human nature.

    Your partner is talking nonsense too, by the way.


  • #27
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Edgware wrote: »
    One thing is for sure. In rural Ireland when you put in an offer on a property that hasn't been moving within 48 hours the shysters of an estate agent will be back to say they have just got an offer in for the asking price well above yours.

    It may also flush out others who are interested, once a bid is placed, they have to bid themselves or lose out. Lots of people, particularly in rural areas keep an eye on a property to see if the asking price drops, I have done it myself, but once a bid is made, it’s game on, more bids often follow.


  • #28
    wassie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,262 ✭✭✭wassie


    Whilst I also subscribe to the view that EAs are more interested in the sale than gaining a few extra euros, remember if the EA lives locally then their reputation often is also important to them, after all they are likely to see former clients down the shops on a Saturday morning.


  • #29
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    martin18 wrote: »
    Thanks everyone. Maybe there is no need for the subterfuge, but my concern would be what KaneToad says - someone thinks their house is simply beautiful whereas I'd have to completely overhaul it to be able to live there long term, so of course it's worth less to me than they might like. And my partner, whose family is from the area, thinks people might well get offended and pass round the word. But yes, it's possible we're overdoing the concern.

    We are cash buyers up to a certain level so at least that will give us a little bit of an edge.

    IdlePasserby, you say that "the agent will tell you what the highest offer so far on the property is, and whether the seller is entertaining it or not", but from everything I've read about EAs in Ireland, such information is not to be trusted, as underlined by Edgeware. I don't know if that's fair, though? One cheap property I'm interested in, the price has escalated by $25k in 2 weeks, but I'm having trouble gauging whether the bidding war is real (EA kind of fluffed whether they'd had an offer at the current price as listed online)...

    Agents don't make up phantom bidders. An extra €25k on a property is only a few hundred for them and its not worth their while loosing their licence for that. There's nothing stopping the seller getting a friend to make an offer though, which hopefully will stop with estate agents looking for the AIP letter.


  • #30
    Idle Passerby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Idle Passerby


    If your worried about bogus bids driving the price up, call their bluff. Say no thanks, too high for me and if it's still on sale in a month go back with your initial offer. Your wife is paranoid. Why would the neighbours care what Joe blogs sells his house for? Properties are only worth what someone is willing to pay.


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  • #31
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,667 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Idle Passerby wrote: »
    If your worried about bogus bids driving the price up, call their bluff. Say no thanks, too high for me and if it's still on sale in a month go back with your initial offer. Your wife is paranoid. Why would the neighbours care what Joe blogs sells his house for? Properties are only worth what someone is willing to pay.

    Do you live in a small town or rural area?


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