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Help with translation

  • 23-03-2015 4:56pm
    #1
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭


    Hello, I'm just having a wee bit of trouble working out the exact meaning of this sentence:

    今日までに旅行の用意をしなければならない。

    It's taken from an N4 prep book.

    It is necessary up until now to prepare for the trip?

    Perhaps I'm missing something very silly! (More likely it's my sketchy understanding of しなければならない)

    I understand the component parts, but the overall picture is eluding me. Any help is appreciated!

    :)


Comments

  • #2
    kawaii
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭kawaii


    "I have to do my travel preparations by today."

    「しなければならない」 = "Have to do"/"Must do".
    「今日までに」 = "by today" (if it was just 「今日まで」 without 「に」, it would translate to "until today", obviously changing the meaning significantly).


  • #3
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    kawaii wrote: »
    "I have to do my travel preparations by today."

    「しなければならない」 = "Have to do"/"Must do".
    「今日までに」 = "by today" (if it was just 「今日まで」 without 「に」, it would translate to "until today", obviously changing the meaning significantly).

    Thank you so much! Makes perfect sense. :)


  • #4
    kawaii
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭kawaii


    どういたまして！


  • #5
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    bunnyarmstrong wrote: »
    (More likely it's my sketchy understanding of しなければならない)

    With the caveat that my Japanese is terrible:

    Kawaii did a good job breaking down some of the grammar, but I think this bit can do with some more explaining. How you express "must" in Japanese is often a double-negative, so　なければ is sorta saying you can't do something, and then it's combined with another negative form.　食べなければいけない is kinda literally "I can't not eat" but it means, I must/have to eat. It was a little hard to wrap my head around at first, ならない then means "if not"

    So yeah, it means "I must pack for the trip by today", but break it down a bit more and it's kinda literally saying "If I don't pack for the trip by today, then it's not gonna happen"


  • #6
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    ありがとう guys.

    Links, that's mad helpful. I was looking over the conditional tense today and it all kind of got reinforced with that explanation! :)

    Edit: actually, while I think of it, is there a more informal way of expressing must/have to/it's necessary?

    The one above is quite a mouthful. :o


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  • #7
    kawaii
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭kawaii


    しなきゃ！しなくちゃ！せねば！しなけりゃ！せなあかん！


  • #8
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    kawaii wrote: »
    しなきゃ！しなくちゃ！せねば！しなけりゃ！せなあかん！

    わぁー! 　ﾟ　ﾟ ( Д 　)

    Are they different dialects? Or all under the Tokyo-ben umbrella?


  • #9
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    bunnyarmstrong wrote: »
    Edit: actually, while I think of it, is there a more informal way of expressing must/have to/it's necessary?

    As Kawaii demonstrated, there are loads, but don't overload yourself learning all the possibilities just yet. I'd say なきゃ would be one to remember as it's a contraction of なければ and used very casually. ;)


  • #10
    kawaii
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭kawaii


    bunnyarmstrong wrote: »
    わぁー! 　ﾟ　ﾟ ( Д 　)

    Are they different dialects? Or all under the Tokyo-ben umbrella?

    せなあかん is Kansai
    せねば is kind of antiquated, and sounds ironic when spoken.
    The first two are the most common!


  • #11
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    Thanks folks, really appreciate the help. :)


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  • #12
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    Sorry for bumping guys, quick question over a simple thing:

    もう、猫のタマにえさをやった？

    Specifically the subject. Is it 'the cat with the ball'?

    So....kind of 'Have you fed the cat with the ball yet/already?'

    A little strange in my head.


  • #13
    kawaii
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭kawaii


    bunnyarmstrong wrote: »
    Sorry for bumping guys, quick question over a simple thing:

    もう、猫のタマにえさをやった？

    Specifically the subject. Is it 'the cat with the ball'?

    So....kind of 'Have you fed the cat with the ball yet/already?'

    A little strange in my head.

    I assume the cat's name is 'Tama'. 'Have you fed the cat, Tama?'


  • #14
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    Oh crickey never thought of that. The sentence is just something in a grammar book, isolated out of context, so mad confusing.

    That explains the katakana....

    Cheers Kawaii! :)


  • #15
    kawaii
    Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭kawaii


    Very welcome!

    It's a bit of a weird one... like in English, you'd normally either say 「もう、猫に餌をやった？」'have you fed the cat' or 「もう、タマちゃんに餌をやった？」'have you fed Tama'. Unless there's also a person called Tama.


  • #16
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    Oh dear. An update on タマちゃん……(from the grammar book)

    猫のタマが死んで、おばあさんは泣き続けています。

    ;_;


  • #17
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    bunnyarmstrong wrote: »
    ;_;

    :eek:

    That grammar book is worse than Game of Thrones :(


  • #18
    bunnyarmstrong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭bunnyarmstrong


    On a much less horrific grammar note, I have a wee question regarding conditional tenses.

    Basically, why is １０万円もらったら、何がしたいですか okay, but １０万円もらえば、何がしたいですか is not?

    I only ask because it was a multiple choice JLPT type question (I'm taking N4 in December).

    The answer the book gave was the first example above (the underlined being the required grammar point), but gave the second as a possible answer.

    I mulled over it quite sometime before choosing the first, but it was a guess. Any advice on this? I feel like it's a simple thing I've overlooked. :)


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