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Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

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13567…65

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  • Options
    #62
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,289 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    The government were hammered in local elections and Greens reaped the benefits less than a month ago. So typically the knee jerk reactionary government drummed up this climate change document with no costing or proper planning. They threw out a few dates for when they want to have certain measure implemented but its all bull****. Nothing, NOTHING has ever ran on time in this country, every successive government has failed abysmally reaching targets/dates in relation to climate change and this is going to be no different.

    They cant declare a ban on petrol/diesel cars in 11 years when so far to date they have spent next to zero on EV charging points, public transport, cycling infrastructure etc etc in the last decade. Its a ridiculous pipe dream to try and win back voters before the next GE and more about increasing taxes than anything else.

    Besides I believe FG are finished in government in the next GE especially if that idiot Leo remains in charge.
    KrakityJones wrote: »
    Wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. FG got a slap in the face from the greens. Don't forget the comments Varadker made after the election results

    "The public have sent us a message which is that they want us to accelerate action on climate. It will require changes at individual, community and national level. It won't be easy and won't always be popular but the public support is there for it now"


    In other words - ye voted for the greens, no problem I'll lash up taxes and say it's because ye told us ye wanted that for "the environment", because every euro of that will go into green initiatives or public transport.. sure.


    Don't get me wrong I actually voted for a green candidate, and I'd love to see something being done, but our current crowd won't do a thing - the only solution we hear time and time again are not that they're going to pump funds into r&d for alternative fuels, or to create a proper charging grid, or address rural public transport issues. No let's up tax - that'll fix things.


    So yeah it's exactly that - noise because the greens got votes.


    92% didnt vote green, fg increased their vote share in the european and local elections. this is purely a tax grab on the back of garbage reporting from rte of a 'green wave'. i dont see any behaviorial change in young people today apart from 'plastics bad' after watching the blue planet. if we ever get a governemnt that can can think further than its own paychecks ill be amazed

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Options
    #63
    bennyineire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Yeah but you buy a new battery for say 7.5k , thats the new floor in car prices, I can currently go out and buy a roadworthy petrol car for 1000 easily. Its going to mean a lot of vehicles scrapped after a decade when its simply not worth it to put a battery in

    Current prices yes but like all mass production the price will drop, remember when 40" plasma screens were €10K


  • Options
    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »

    Very important we get diesels banned from our cities within the next year or two.

    It’s a ridiculous idea that will just put hardship and expense on an awful lot of people so I can’t see it happening anytime soon. People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

    Diesel and petrol will be around for a very long time imo, I don’t have much heed for this scaremongering. That’s what people want to drive, myself included.


  • Options
    #65
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »
    It’s a ridiculous idea that will just put hardship and expense on an awful lot of people so I can’t see it happening anytime soon. People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

    Diesel and petrol will be around for a very long time imo, I don’t have much heed for this scaremongering. That’s what people want to drive, myself included.

    Which is it? A want or a need?


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    #66
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Money racket, pure and simple.

    Same thing happens any time the Greens get a few seats. They'll lose their seats as soon as the following election comes up when people realise the scam that they run (like the last time they were in).


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    #67
    run_Forrest_run
    Registered Users Posts: 6,393 ✭✭✭run_Forrest_run


    Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »
    People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

    this is part of the problem, most people would not need to take their cars into the city if there was an efficient and regular park and ride service at various points around the city, but this Government would rather push the entire problem on the people rather than helping the people to reduce their carbon emissions.


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    #68
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,100 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    bennyineire wrote: »
    Current prices yes but like all mass production the price will drop, remember when 40" plasma screens were €10K

    Good example, plasma was and still is superior to led, they were just too expensive for the ordinary consumer much like an EV is today. Cue Hydrogen as the future as it's a lot easier make. The EU, US and Asia are all backing hydrogen yet were going for Lithium. Bad move it's expensive and volatile.
    I can't wait to see insurance quotes once EV's become main stream as these battery packs will be need to be fully checked for any damage after a slight fender bender as the chances of them exploding are high. A hydrogen fire is a lot easier put out.

    What are we doing with the million cars were taking off the road, exporting them so some other countries can use them? Begs the question, what's the point. Just do a Cuba on it and ban the import of new cars.


  • Options
    #69
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    cournioni wrote: »
    Money racket, pure and simple.

    Same thing happens any time the Greens get a few seats. They'll lose their seats as soon as the following election comes up when people realise the scam that they run (like the last time they were in).

    The funny thing is they got 8% of the overall vote in the recent election, you'd swear they got Kim Jong Un levels of popularity from the spin we are hearing pumped out from the media recently.

    I'll be voting for whatever political organisation that puts this "green wave" back in it's rightful place.


  • Options
    #70
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    They will be outdated tech. Electric car tech is advancing rapidly year on year. The battery and charging tech being the main areas. You can already see this with the fast charge cars out now versus the very first gen EVs.

    To me the concept of buy a second hand EV is like buying a second hand mobile phone, the battery will be knackered in both so not worth the money.

    The second hand diesels that people are in love with are also old tech but people still buy them.

    You don't have to buy a 15 year old EV, the market will be flooded with EV's in 20 years, buy one that's 4 years old then.

    People are SO against EV's for some reason, boggles the mind.
    Especially when people are against what they will be in 20 years time.


  • Options
    #71
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Yeah but you buy a new battery for say 7.5k , thats the new floor in car prices, I can currently go out and buy a roadworthy petrol car for 1000 easily. Its going to mean a lot of vehicles scrapped after a decade when its simply not worth it to put a battery in

    And that 1000 car is going to cost you how much in fuel every year?
    How about maintenance and repairs?

    New battery is, currently, say 7K.
    How much is a new gearbox, DPF, timing belt, turbo, DMF?


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    #72
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    cournioni wrote: »
    Money racket, pure and simple.

    Same thing happens any time the Greens get a few seats. They'll lose their seats as soon as the following election comes up when people realise the scam that they run (like the last time they were in).

    Who are the greens making money for?:confused:


  • Options
    #73
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »
    It’s a ridiculous idea that will just put hardship and expense on an awful lot of people so I can’t see it happening anytime soon. People need to drive into the city for work etc and forcing them into electric cars that most don’t want and even if they want can’t afford is madness.

    Diesel and petrol will be around for a very long time imo, I don’t have much heed for this scaremongering. That’s what people want to drive, myself included.

    Diesel is polluting on a personal level. In a city, emissions are concentrated and people's health is affected in the long run. Children are much more likely to have respiratory problems.

    The irony about all this is that the Greens were the party that made the diesel so popular. Their shortsighted policies caused a lot of health problems for people in towns and cities

    The end will come for diesels. Diesels are more expensive than petrols over the long run anyway. €1000 injectors, DMF, DPF, ad blue, turbos, pump problems...


  • Options
    #74
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The One Doctor wrote: »
    Diesel is polluting on a personal level. In a city, emissions are concentrated and people's health is affected in the long run. Children are much more likely to have respiratory problems.

    The irony about all this is that the Greens were the party that made the diesel so popular. Their shortsighted policies caused a lot of health problems for people in towns and cities

    The end will come for diesels. Anyway, diesels are more expensive than petrols over the long run anyway. €1000 injectors, DMF, DPF, ad blue, turbos, pump problems...

    Their "short-sighted" policies were based on statistics.....unfortunately those stats were being manipulated by the car manufacturers.
    But I guess you think the greens were in on this?


  • Options
    #75
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,100 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The second hand diesels that people are in love with are also old tech but people still buy them.

    You don't have to buy a 15 year old EV, the market will be flooded with EV's in 20 years, buy one that's 4 years old then.

    Your putting a lot of faith in the stability and longivety of lithium batteries. All EV's on sale now will be long decommissioned by then.


  • Options
    #76
    Zenith74
    Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Zenith74


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    That's all lovely but the government has stated that all new cars from 2030 must be EV. If they want us all to be in EVs then they MUST provide the infrastructure.

    100% agree, I was only responding to your assertion that EVs don't make any sense because apartment dwellers cannot charge them. Maybe you only meant they don't make any sense for apartment dwellers, in which-case apologies, I took it that you suggesting we should not bother with EVs at all until they can achieve every possible edge-case...

    ednwireland wrote: »
    i would be more impressed with a reduce useage culture , but unfortunataely that doesnt fit with our year on year growth requirements.
    as previous posters have said, massive investment in public transport alternatives is needed, aqs far as i know theres 50 billion in road investment (in the national development plan) and nothing for public transport. not seeing an awful lot of joined up thinking there.

    There's loads in the plan on public transport, air travel, cycling etc. You're just seeing EVs being discussed here because this is the EV forum, in reality they only get a few pages in the 265 page document.

    https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Climate%20Action%20Plan%202019.pdf
    Transport is from page 81.


  • Options
    #77
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Your putting a lot of faith in the stability and longivety of lithium batteries. All EV's on sale now will be long decommissioned by then.

    Well KIA's have an 8 year warranty and I'm pretty sure they dont self-destruct after that, they just get less efficient at charge and discharge, do you consider 2 years a "long" time.
    But anyway, who said anything about buying EVs that are on sale now?

    We are talking about 10 years down the road.
    Ignoring what battery tech will be by then, just buy one in 8 years time.
    You now have a 2 year old EV, with probably 5 years warranty left on it...congratulations.

    Why are people overcomplicating this?:confused:


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    #78
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    That's all lovely but the government has stated that all new cars from 2030 must be EV. If they want us all to be in EVs then they MUST provide the infrastructure.

    There is a charging network being rolled out as we speak. It's not like they're banning the sale of non EVs tomorrow. It's 10 years away. Even in 10 years you will be able to buy a second hand petrol or diesel car if you want to.


  • Options
    #79
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Their "short-sighted" policies were based on statistics.....unfortunately those stats were being manipulated by the car manufacturers.
    But I guess you think the greens were in on this?

    No I don't, they just didn't do their research properly. But they're still to blame in the end and we're stuck with dirty, noisy diesels.

    Can you tell that I really, really hate diesels?


  • Options
    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    this is part of the problem, most people would not need to take their cars into the city if there was an efficient and regular park and ride service at various points around the city, but this Government would rather push the entire problem on the people rather than helping the people to reduce their carbon emissions.

    I doubt most people have any interest in park and ride, it’s certainly very unappealing to me compared to driving directly to work and parking right outside the door, having my car close by if needed during the day, having anything I need with me in the car, what if I want to go somewhere in the city after work other than home etc.
    The One Doctor wrote: »

    The end will come for diesels. Diesels are more expensive than petrols over the long run anyway. €1000 injectors, DMF, DPF, ad blue, turbos, pump problems...

    Diesels aren’t more expensive, a few scaremongering stories do not reflect the reality. We have always had mostly diesels in the household and never have had the above issues (I currently have a petrol and a diesel car (recently purchased and zero fear of any big changes coming).


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    #81
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    bennyineire wrote: »
    Current prices yes but like all mass production the price will drop, remember when 40" plasma screens were €10K

    Terrible example, we’re pretty much at peak lithium ion battery production, theyre in everything, regardless of scale a li-ion cell is a li-ion cell. Theres no more volume doscount to be had. Plasma tv’s were 10k because they were new, this is a 30 year old technology thats used in everything, it couldnt get more ubiquitous.

    Then you also have the ability of china to turn round and say nah, cut lithium mining and the price skyrockets


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    #82
    bonzos
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭bonzos


    Didn't they greens persuade us all to buy diesel cars in 2008 via taxation, how can they now turn and push for the total opposite?


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    #83
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,078 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    n97 mini wrote: »
    And then there's no mention of agriculture, which is the biggest source of emissions, but is projected to just grow and grow. Almost as if they're aiming for 100% of our emissions to come from agriculture.

    Oh yes another clown that wants to screw the only fooking indigenous large scale employer we have.
    It is fooking marvellous how many eejits in this country actually believe the hype about how great we are what with the value of our current exports.

    And they totally forget that if the tax regime changes somewhere else all those FDI mult5inaitonals will be off like lot of FDI manufacturers did in the past.
    Or agri industry is going nowhere and will still be here, so stop fooking trying to screw it up. :mad::mad:

    freddieot wrote: »
    Don 't be in too much of a panic or a hurry over this.

    Anyone know the plan for how many power stations we are going to build to power all the recharging that will be needed in 2030 ?

    Are we going nuclear to keep cost down (like some of our EU comrades that have less carbon emissions) or will the cost of electricity go through the roof ?

    Also, anyone who thinks that taxes (road tax, VRT etc.) won't skyrocket for EVs in a few years once the number of electric vehicles reaches a certain tipping point is badly mistaken. This is a money \ tax grabbing country and if they lose tax from petrol \ diesel drivers then they will bleed the new crop of EV drivers instead.

    As regards buying electric now, it's perhaps an even bigger risk than buying diesel. In 6 years time in 2025, there will still be a big market for diesel 2nd hand vehicles. Apart from other considerations, the alternative will be to purchase 2nd hand EV vehicles that will have todays technology. Anyone remember what happened to older mobile phones when smartphones came along ?

    A lot of sense there.
    This is a load of shyte that was concocted because someone in FG figured out there are green votes to be had and Leo the spiv wants to look good.

    What will the massive annual cash cow that is the fossil fuel motorist going to be replaced with ?

    How will all these electric cars charge ?

    Oh yeah we had a great spiel this morning from that backstabber Bruton about wind farms and renewables.

    Except he fails to mention about what happens when the wind fails to blow and what happens when all those green supporters start complaining about the planning for all the necessary wind farms in the first place.

    This is another national broadband plan and we see how that has gone. :rolleyes:

    If they really gave a shyte and had any long term planning they would have more electric public transport bar the one they showed up on and the other two.

    And as someone else said earlier, it doesn't matter what the fook we do if Asia and the states do shag all.
    And that will only start happening when some of those feckers are knee deep in water. :rolleyes:


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    #84
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,064 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    There is a charging network being rolled out as we speak. It's not like they're banning the sale of non EVs tomorrow. It's 10 years away. Even in 10 years you will be able to buy a second hand petrol or diesel car if you want to.

    Unless or until public charging becomes as quick and as convenient as filling up at a petrol station then home charging is a necessity for EV owners to avoid significant frustration. A significant number of people don't have off street parking. If the future is EV then infrastructure will need to be provided to cater for this. That's all I'm saying.


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    #85
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    8-10 wrote:
    Electric cars is the future and I can't wait to trade up my hybrid to full electric. Never going back.

    I'm the same, my hybrid is a 141, it's the longest time I've ever had a car for but I'm waiting for the right EV


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    #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bennyineire wrote: »
    .............
    I believe that cliff will come in the next 5 years, anyone buying a brand new diesel car now with the plan to upgrade in 5 years would need their head examined IMHO

    Trading in a 5 year old diesel you're lucky to see 25% of the original value....... if you need a diesel now and an EV won't suit you I'd still suggest folk go with a diesel tbh :)
    It might be worth less then you'd like but if it suits your needs go for it :)


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    #87
    phill106
    Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭phill106


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Unless or until public charging becomes as quick and as convenient as filling up at a petrol station then home charging is a necessity for EV owners to avoid significant frustration. A significant number of people don't have off street parking. If the future is EV then infrastructure will need to be provided to cater for this. That's all I'm saying.

    Isn't it as easy as that though? Don't the majority of petrol stations ( actually will we need to rename them?!) have at least one electric charging point?

    I dont have an ev at the moment, but am considering it. Live in shannon, which as towns go isnt the largest, doesnt even make top 20 in population.
    From what i can see, there is 2 public charging spaces, one at topaz, one at gardai station.

    Would the issue be the slow charging time vs traditional fuel, occupying the points for much longer times?


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    #88
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Unless or until public charging becomes as quick and as convenient as filling up at a petrol station then home charging is a necessity for EV owners to avoid significant frustration. A significant number of people don't have off street parking. If the future is EV then infrastructure will need to be provided to cater for this. That's all I'm saying.

    And I'm saying the infrastructure is being rolled out. There is the Ionity network. Lidl are installing charging points in all their stores. Local authorities have to provide hundreds of charging points every year as part of the plan.


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    #89
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The One Doctor wrote: »
    No I don't, they just didn't do their research properly. But they're still to blame in the end and we're stuck with dirty, noisy diesels.

    Can you tell that I really, really hate diesels?

    I think its pretty unfair to say they didnt do their research.
    The worlds major manufactures were lying and faking stats...


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    #90
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,289 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Zenith74 wrote: »

    There's loads in the plan on public transport, air travel, cycling etc. You're just seeing EVs being discussed here because this is the EV forum, in reality they only get a few pages in the 265 page document.

    https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Climate%20Action%20Plan%202019.pdf
    Transport is from page 81.

    there really isnt

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #91
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Kristopher Nervous Killer wrote: »
    Diesels aren’t more expensive, a few scaremongering stories do not reflect the reality. We have always had mostly diesels in the household and never have had the above issues (I currently have a petrol and a diesel car (recently purchased and zero fear of any big changes coming).

    What age are your diesels cars?
    All cars are fine when they are new.


This discussion has been closed.
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