Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

mountgomery burns · 18-06-2019 1:29pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I don't think I got any real digs in - more of a factual response in my opinion.

If a poll was put up, I think people would need to be clear on what viable alternatives might be available.

Sorry but comparing anyone to Babs Keating is clearly a dig. Regardless of what he's won, must be the least respected commentator of the game at this stage. The man dropped Eoin Kelly as Tipp manager for f*CK sake.

Also the secondary school teacher, not journalist comment...so should Duignan, Mullane, Brennan, Shefflin and English not be writing columns either?

Hartley and Queally a decent place to start. But the fact they're both from Waterford, inevitably there's a few on here who already dislike them.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 1:46pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Sorry but comparing anyone to Babs Keating is clearly a dig. Regardless of what he's won, must be the least respected commentator of the game at this stage. The man dropped Eoin Kelly as Tipp manager for f*CK sake.

Also the secondary school teacher, not journalist comment...so should Duignan, Mullane, Brennan, Shefflin and English not be writing columns either?

Hartley and Queally a decent place to start. But the fact they're both from Waterford, inevitably there's a few on here who already dislike them.

I put him in a category of ex-intercounty managers with an apparent axe to grind category, and who divide opinion within their own counties. That's the Ger Loughnane and Babs Keating Club. I'm sure there's one or two more - Tony Considine is definitely another.

Nicky English is another category - the All Ireland winner who doesn't seem to annoy anyone category. Liam Griffin is also in that bracket, John O'Mahony et al.

Another poster mentioned a number of high profile journalists and McGrath in the same sentence. I wasn't at all having a dig by trying to distinguish between him as a secondary school teacher doing a few nixers and those who are respected full time journalists at the top of their professions.

And finally, would you put the likes of Queally and Hartley ahead of people like Colm Bonnar and Fintan O'Connor who are both coaching intercounty teams at present? Carlow under Bonnar finished the Championship with a better scoring difference than Waterford.

blue note · 18-06-2019 2:03pm

It is hypocritical that people are coming on here taking pot shots at Derek while saying that he should keep his opinions to himself.

The fact that the same people like to tell us that he should have done better (than runners up in the all Ireland) given the players he had and that now we need to clear out half of those players to have any chance of being competitive in munster again should help him understand that many of his critics (the likes of the ones here) haven't a clue. It's probably why he's taking aim at those that should know better, like former players or journalists.

thesaturdayman · 18-06-2019 2:08pm

Probably worth putting a few things out there re Derek / Ken etc...

full time secondary school teacher of english from Sept - early May.

part time journalist Late may to Sept.

the fact he was already well spoken & a wordsmith, with a decent grasp of the English language leaned itself to working in media written and spoken, he was probably more likely to hit the ground running here then say for eg. Tony Browne or Dan.

Paper never refuses ink and all that, but i think its important to point out Derek no more then Sheedy in his time, Loughnane, Daly, Cyril farrell the same persistently references their own experiences in mgmt.

Why does Derek get slated for same? I can only assume it is a Waterford bias against him from the way uses language & quotes, as it is not something we are used to and now factor in the hurling style deployed that was at odds with our "traditions" / the "Waterford Way" & now we have someone who speaks differently and thinks differently about hurling in waterford and the way it should be played - talk about stirring the Waterford GAA supporting hornets nest.

I didnt like the swipe at ken. Nor did i like the reply. However, I did feel he was right to cut down flannery for his petty article & should have gone another few inches into the CB.

I think it is disappointing and detrimental to us all, that two of the counties leading lights (one our greatest ever hurler the other our greatest waterfordian manager of modern era, certiaintly a Ying & Yang pairing in terms of philosophy) are now at odds with each other, both should be working cohesively to plot the future out & the people that should be held to account - i.e. the county board officers - be in the spotlight, not this current circus.

It should be the duty of the custodians of Waterford GAA to get these people working together for the greater good & not tearing chunks out of each other. In my experience that is what real leadership entails.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 2:26pm

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Probably worth putting a few things out there re Derek / Ken etc...

full time secondary school teacher of english from Sept - early May.

part time journalist Late may to Sept.

the fact he was already well spoken & a wordsmith, with a decent grasp of the English language leaned itself to working in media written and spoken, he was probably more likely to hit the ground running here then say for eg. Tony Browne or Dan.

Paper never refuses ink and all that, but i think its important to point out Derek no more then Sheedy in his time, Loughnane, Daly, Cyril farrell the same persistently references their own experiences in mgmt.

Why does Derek get slated for same? I can only assume it is a Waterford bias against him from the way uses language & quotes, as it is not something we are used to and now factor in the hurling style deployed that was at odds with our "traditions" / the "Waterford Way" & now we have someone who speaks differently and thinks differently about hurling in waterford and the way it should be played - talk about stirring the Waterford GAA supporting hornets nest.

I didnt like the swipe at ken. Nor did i like the reply. However, I did feel he was right to cut down flannery for his petty article & should have gone another few inches into the CB.

I think it is disappointing and detrimental to us all, that two of the counties leading lights (one our greatest ever hurler the other our greatest waterfordian manager of modern era, certiaintly a Ying & Yang pairing in terms of philosophy) are now at odds with each other, both should be working cohesively to plot the future out & the people that should be held to account - i.e. the county board officers - be in the spotlight, not this current circus.

It should be the duty of the custodians of Waterford GAA to get these people working together for the greater good & not tearing chunks out of each other. In my experience that is what real leadership entails.

While I broadly agree with a lot of the above, personally I thought he came across as though he had a serious axe to grind and it just looked very smug.

He's received criticism for grinding that axe in this fashion, and probably because he never had the support of large portions of the county anyway. I think to be fair he's a guy that's been involved in plenty of controversial things since he was a player himself and any criticism will probably result in him doubling down on his own methods.

I don't think we're used to one of our own doing coming out in the media and being critical - and this has irked man. However, as I posted a while back this would be standard procedure in other counties like Tipp, Kerry, Cork etc. when things aren't going well - ex players and managers are lining up to take pot shots.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 2:39pm

Derek also blew a perfectly good opportunity to use the 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark line' as well!

BazBox · 18-06-2019 2:46pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Derek also blew a perfectly good opportunity to use the 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark line' as well!

He could have said "Something is rotten in the state that is Walsh Park".

Missed a big opportunity there.

At this stage it looks like Fanning is staying on, everything is gone quiet??

mountgomery burns · 18-06-2019 3:32pm

hardybuck wrote: »

And finally, would you put the likes of Queally and Hartley ahead of people like Colm Bonnar and Fintan O'Connor who are both coaching intercounty teams at present? Carlow under Bonnar finished the Championship with a better scoring difference than Waterford.

Well they were the first two to come to mind, I'm sure there are several who would be in the discussion. I think there is a big difference between being an intercounty manager of Waterford and being the manager of Carlow or Kerry though.

Bonnar was around Waterford circles for a long time, think it's unlikely he be considered at this point. Record as Wexford manager was poor as well, and the scoring difference point is more of an indictment of Waterford than cause for praise of Carlow.

O'Connor I have time for, but (and it may have absolutely no basis) it was mooted that the players didn't want him and that's why he left the Waterford setup. Given his links to McGraths tenure, you would imagine he'd be unpopular with McGraths detractors at the first sign of trouble too.

Think Queallys record with lesser lights in the club championship is fantastic to be honest, and although Ballygunner have the best pick Hartleys still got an impressive record with them and they beat a better team to win the Munster club this year. Was much more popular than former Cork intercounty manager Denis Walsh down there anyway.

I know because neither of them were successful when in charge of the 21s that will be an automatic rejection for some (Queally was unlucky in 2013 with Paudie Prenders red card I think) but they have since done their claims no harm.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 3:59pm

I think Carlow have done amazing to compete so well at that level with just four senior clubs.

I'd give Fanning another year, especially if there wasn't another obviously better candidate available.

Anthony Cunningham would be my wildcard choice.

Mastermcgrath · 19-06-2019 5:01am

hardybuck wrote: »

I think Carlow have done amazing to compete so well at that level with just four senior clubs.

I'd give Fanning another year, especially if there wasn't another obviously better candidate available.

Anthony Cunningham would be my wildcard choice.

Fanning has to go. Your dreaming if you think he can turn it around next year. It’s obvious he has lost the dressing room and it’s next to impossible to win it back once that happens. People seem to be overlooking the tactical shambles that occurred out on the pitch, whether players downed tools or not. I refuse to beleive there is no one better available. Fannings only option from here is a big clearout of the players that aren’t on board. Which is half the panel and pretty much all the top players in the county.

He has to go

Jjjjjjjjbarry · 19-06-2019 9:46am

Has the Walsh Park redevelopment been delayed again due to state funding not being released?

Road-Hog · 19-06-2019 10:19am

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Has the Walsh Park redevelopment been delayed again due to state funding not being released?

No sign of a tender on the public procurement web site so having works complete for next May seems unlikely at moment.

However the GAA are probably be bound by public procurement rules so they may have got a contractor lined up

hardybuck · 19-06-2019 10:34am

Road-Hog wrote: »

No sign of a tender on the public procurement web site so having works complete for next May seems unlikely at moment.

However the GAA are probably be bound by public procurement rules so they may have got a contractor lined up

They'll probably only be following public procurement rules if they're using public money, but they're own rules shouldn't be too far away you'd imagine.

I don't think it was ever realistic to expect championship games to be hosted there in 2020.

I could actually see this playing a role in decision making regarding the senior hurling management team.

BloodyBill · 19-06-2019 11:15am

Road-Hog wrote: »

There are plenty of sports journalists eg vincent Hogan, Sean Moran etc who never even coached a team who write articles like mcgrath particularly hogan so don’t be going over the top on criticism of mcgrath. Yes he uses Shakespeare quotes and ‘big words’ but so did guys like yer man cashman (Kevin I think it was) who used to write years ago....

Kevin Cashman was one of the greatest Hurling writers of all time. Derek McGrath is small town teacher who writes stories like a transition year student

Deisegodeo · 19-06-2019 12:44pm

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Has the Walsh Park redevelopment been delayed again due to state funding not being released?

They mentioned on wlr this morning a start date of September next for construction.

BazBox · 19-06-2019 1:18pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Kevin Cashman was one of the greatest Hurling writers of all time. Derek McGrath is small town teacher who writes stories like a transition year student

Put down the lemons and move on

PTH2009 · 19-06-2019 1:21pm

The CB wont step in regarding the issues with Fanning as PJR himself said he saw no discontent in the camp

Jjjjjjjjbarry · 19-06-2019 8:22pm

Waterford GAA Fixtures

JJ Kavanagh & Sons Senior Hurling Championship Round 2

Thursday 20th June
•Lismore v Ballyduff Upper
in Cappoquin
@ 7:45pm

Saturday 22nd June
•Tallow v Clonea
in Fraher Field
@ 6pm
•Fourmilewater v Roanmore
in Fraher Field
@ 7:30pm

•Abbeyside v Mount Sion
in Walsh Park
@ 7pm

Sunday 23rd June
•De la Salle v Passage
in Walsh Park
@ 2pm
•Dungarvan v Ballygunner
in Walsh Park
@ 3:45pm

PTH2009 · 19-06-2019 10:24pm

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Waterford GAA Fixtures

JJ Kavanagh & Sons Senior Hurling Championship Round 2

Thursday 20th June
•Lismore v Ballyduff Upper
in Cappoquin
@ 7:45pm

Saturday 22nd June
•Tallow v Clonea
in Fraher Field
@ 6pm
•Fourmilewater v Roanmore
in Fraher Field
@ 7:30pm

•Abbeyside v Mount Sion
in Walsh Park
@ 7pm

Sunday 23rd June
•De la Salle v Passage
in Walsh Park
@ 2pm
•Dungarvan v Ballygunner
in Walsh Park
@ 3:45pm

The Sunday walsh park double bill looks tasty.

Fairly hard seeing this back so early while other counties are gearing up for provincial finals/All ireland QFs. I suppose Galway/Clare and Carlow supporters are feeling the same

upthedeise16 · 19-06-2019 10:33pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

The Sunday walsh park double bill looks tasty.

Fairly hard seeing this back so early while other counties are gearing up for provincial finals/All ireland QFs. I suppose Galway/Clare and Carlow supporters are feeling the same

Agree, first match is hard to call, probably go with DLS. Dungarvan supposed to be going well, hammered Abbeyside in the league last weekend and Ballygunner down a few including Philip Mahoney, would still expect them to have too much.

mountgomery burns · 19-06-2019 10:58pm

Anyone go to America in the end?

PTH2009 · 19-06-2019 11:03pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Anyone go to America in the end?

Think Aussie ,TDB and Jack Prendergast are going in July

Clubs no doubt paying big expenses for these players to go out there.

Cake Man · 20-06-2019 12:07am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Think Aussie ,TDB and Jack Prendergast are going in July

Clubs no doubt paying big expenses for these players to go out there.

How does that work, how are they able to play for a club over there while being a part of a club at home? Are there rules around this?

Also, if they go over there for the summer does that essentially mean they make themselves unavailable for their club championship games at home or how does that work? What reason would clubs over in the states have to entice players to come over (to the extent of actually covering their expenses etc.)
I'm just curious about how the whole thing works.

thesaturdayman · 20-06-2019 1:11am

Weekend transfers in New York - 5/10 grand for 3 days work generally

DiscoStew · 20-06-2019 7:40am

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Weekend transfers in New York - 5/10 grand for 3 days work generally

I’m not sure about New York. There definitely used to be weekend transfers but whether that’s still permitted I’m not sure.
Most of Waterford players last year went to San Fran teams and a few to Boston. I think once you officially “transfer” to them you become ineligible for your home club for a period of time, possibly 60 days but again I’m not certain of the length of time. Most states now have a limit on how many intercounty transfer players you can play at any one time so as to limit this. If you are transferred to a club before a certain date, say the start of June for example, you count as a home player. If you join after this date you count as a transfer.

In terms of payment I don’t think it is anywhere near as lucrative as made out here. All of the Waterford players last year were put to work during their time in San Fran, generally in construction. The payments are generally withheld until the very end for fear of players returning home from games or what not and the accommodation is usually just a house with beds / mattresses thrown everywhere to fit as many players as possible.
Meanwhile there were former Kilkenny players out there last year too who received handsome packages and didn’t have to work. Perhaps this is because they agreed to the transfer early in the year as they weren’t tied by inter county commitments etc.

debok · 20-06-2019 9:04am

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Weekend transfers in New York - 5/10 grand for 3 days work generally

I heard twas 50,000 grand for 15 minutes work and ya get 5 woman. They also get a gold car to drive around in !!!!!!

hardybuck · 20-06-2019 9:40am

When I did it you couldn't play for your home club for 60 days, but New York had it's own rules.

Most senior players will get their flights paid for, set up with a job if they want it, set up with accommodation with either the first month or all of it paid for depending on your deal. Some lads will get cash into the paw as well.

They want you working though as it keeps lads from getting homesick, keeps lads fit and off the beer (but there's still lots of that!). You'd get $150-200 per day without too much hassle, even if you don't have a trade.

One lad the club recruited was an All Star the previous year, his wife and children were all sorted out for accommodation and flights out there.

I know my team spent over $100k bringing lads out for the summer when I was there, but some of the top players were rumoured to be getting $20k.

thesaturdayman · 20-06-2019 12:10pm

In 2008 Joe Canning got $10k for a weekend transfer to New York to play in county final. I know that for a fact as I was there when it happened. That was 10 years ago.

Going rate for a weekend transfer to New York is $5k flights and accom for top intercounty players. Austin is prob in the $10k+ category.

All other jurisdictions are 60 day transfers. Connolly reportedly got $40k for his summers work last year in Boston, most of northie clubs pay savage cash for lads. Hurling is the poor relation in most areas bar NYC and the weekend transfers (you are allowed 2 per weekend, ship them in and out in 72 hours).

thesaturdayman · 20-06-2019 5:59pm

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

One club was paying $10k to Aussie for the summer and it was all agreed. but pulled out in the last minute, They got advice from back home not to waste the money that his head isn’t right and he’s ‘on the beer’ so spent the money someone else instead

As it turns out now he’s still going, agreed to join Tipperary NY for only a fraction of what he was going to get

if thats the case then the advise must have been right day one!! :pac:

Deisegodeo · 20-06-2019 9:11pm

Solid win for lismore in first game of the weekend, beat ballyduff upper 1-21 to 0-15.

Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

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