DNA Analysis

dubhthach · 20-02-2021 5:24pm

spurious wrote: »

FTDNA has a lot of Irish (in Ireland) people mainly because it works out the cheapest.

What I always suggest is if people have tested at either AncestryDNA or 23andme that they create a FTDNA account and then transfer in their test results form these companies. You can do this without providing an additional sample for testing.

Of course subsequently if individual is male they can always request a upgrade to a basic Y-DNA str test (which will require a new sample). It's a fairly cheap way to get into their database.

RobMc59 · 24-02-2021 7:41pm

I uploaded my dna result from ancestry to living dna after reading a post here about it but the results are confusing as they differ quite significantly from ancestry's profile.I wondered if anyone could shed any light on this?

L1011 · 24-02-2021 8:18pm

Well, how are the results different?

RobMc59 · 24-02-2021 9:03pm

L1011 wrote: »

Well, how are the results different?

Living DNA says 100% Great Britain and Ireland with a breakdown of:25% Ireland,25% North west England,12% North Wales and the rest between ten other regions of Britain.

Ancestry says: 39% Scotland,29% England and North western Europe(with the majority from Northwest England and the Isle of Man),18% Ireland and 14% Wales. I understand these are only estimates but they do seem considerably different?

pinkypinky · 24-02-2021 11:46pm

Just keep a screenshot of both and move on to the matches.
Check the ethnicity once every 6 months, it'll be different every time.

dubhthach · 25-02-2021 1:33pm

Indeed 'ethnicity' in these calculators are based on sample size that is fed into the calculator.

AncestryDNA has millions of samples (at least 18 million!) which allows them to produce quite fine-grained 'Genetic communities'. This is especially evident in the number of 'Genetic Communities' they have for Ireland. In comparison in undersampled populations they don't have anywhere near the same number of 'GC's'.

so for example:

Ireland: 94 'regions'
China: 5 regions (4 in 'South China' and 1 just covering the whole of North China)

The Philippines has 16 regions in comparison (10 in North Philippines, 6 in 'South Philippines') even though they have about 10% of Chinese population.

The reason for this discrepancy is that quite simply they don't have huge number of samples from China. In comparison Filipinos like the Irish have a large diaspora community (particulary in the US) who have engaged in genetic genealogy.

For example here is their breakdown for my other-half:

Originally when tested it just had her down as SE Asian for majority of her ancestry. The same process has happened in 23andme as their database has grown over the years for example here's prior to 2018:

vs. today:

Given increase in matches she's getting there's been a big increase in testing among Filipino's (diaspora mainly) resulting in various testing companies been able to get high resolution 'genetic communities' for the Philippines.

From what I can tell with OH's results 23andme is probably better for those with known Iberian ancestry (her Great-Grandfather was Spanish) then Ancestry.

My feeling is that the Ancestry calculator might have lower sampleset from Spain as a result variations present in Spanish community might end up elsewhere in their calculator due to them been seen more often in those GC's in ancestry database.

Nqp15hhu · 25-02-2021 3:38pm

AncestryDNA is highly accurate in my experience. There are some issues in separating Northern English and Scottish ancestry. But not much else

pinkypinky · 25-02-2021 5:08pm

Definitely am repeating myself but the ethnicity guide on Ancestry partially comes from placenames entered on trees belonging to your matches, so it may be accurate, but it's not coming from the DNA itself.

RobMc59 · 25-02-2021 8:49pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Definitely am repeating myself but the ethnicity guide on Ancestry partially comes from placenames entered on trees belonging to your matches, so it may be accurate, but it's not coming from the DNA itself.

I can understand that but I`m mystified by some of the ethnicity estimates on ancestry.An estimate of 39% Scottish with no known family ties there (my dna matches do contain matches from both sides of my family)
Results on living DNA give the main ethnicity as 25% Ireland which seems plausible given known family history.
Could the 39% Scottish estimate on ancestry be related to plantation ethnicity?

Nqp15hhu · 25-02-2021 9:17pm

Scottish percentages are often a proxy with Northern English people.

pinkypinky · 25-02-2021 11:13pm

Almost certainly - do you have Ulster names or known family?

Earnest · 26-02-2021 11:55am

pinkypinky wrote: »

Definitely am repeating myself but the ethnicity guide on Ancestry partially comes from placenames entered on trees belonging to your matches, so it may be accurate, but it's not coming from the DNA itself.

Maybe so, but I've never come across a tree that would justify my alleged 11% Swedish ancestry.

paddysdream · 26-02-2021 2:10pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Definitely am repeating myself but the ethnicity guide on Ancestry partially comes from placenames entered on trees belonging to your matches, so it may be accurate, but it's not coming from the DNA itself.

That has always been my understanding of the ethnicity section of DNA results ie its based on matches with available trees.
Have 3 tests on Ancestry and all have what look like accurate regions but then again all 3 are 100% Irish back to 1800 and most likely long before that.
All their ancestors were/are from very localised areas in specific counties so the tree matches reflect this.

Have one group in my own DNA match list with 200 plus likely members which almost all show as less than 20% Irish ethnicity but think that its more to do with the fact that all available trees apart from my own show not a single ancestor from Ireland which skews the result.

Nqp15hhu · 27-02-2021 3:39am

I don’t think the ancestry ethnicity results are based on matches. Looking through my Northern Irish matches their percentages are all very variable and different. I have as high as 100% Irish and as low as 14% Irish. All people with only Ulster people in their family trees.

The same is true with my closest matches. If they were based on matches they would all be quite similar.

These are all native northern Irish people. If the ethnicity estimate was based on family trees how would an northern Irish person score Swedish?

Nqp15hhu · 27-02-2021 4:04am

Speaking for myself myself. It’s quite accurate for my family.

Mum:

She has mostly Derry city and Donegal ancestry with some Tyrone ancestry.

Dad:

Ulster Scots ancestry with some Ulster Irish.

Myself:

Mostly Ulster Irish but with a sizeable chunk of Ulster Scots.

Note my mum has no Scottish genetic communities whatsoever. I think it’s highly accurate and am pleased with all of our results.

RobMc59 · 27-02-2021 6:28am

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Speaking for myself myself. It’s quite accurate for my family.

She has mostly Derry city and Donegal ancestry with some Tyrone ancestry.

Ulster Scots ancestry with some Ulster Irish.

Mostly Ulster Irish but with a sizeable chunk of Ulster Scots.

Note my mum has no Scottish genetic communities whatsoever. I think it’s highly accurate and am pleased with all of our results.

That's fascinating,your ethnicity estimates appear more detailed than my own which only goes into specific detail of regions about North West England and the Isle of Man.
This could be as pinky suggested as most of the people from North West England (on my ethnicity estimates)have place of birth details from census returns etc?

Hermy · 27-02-2021 9:07am

I've edited Nqp15hhu's posts to reduce the size of some of the images.

I've also removed the quoted images from RobMc59's post.

Nqp15hhu · 27-02-2021 4:41pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

That's fascinating,your ethnicity estimates appear more detailed than my own which only goes into specific detail of regions about North West England and the Isle of Man.
This could be as pinky suggested as most of the people from North West England (on my ethnicity estimates)have place of birth details from census returns etc?

I think it’s just because I have ancestry from specific areas where my ancestors moved around very little within those regions.

dubhthach · 02-03-2021 6:32pm

Useful recent presentation on BigY and Y-DNA testing in general here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiDcjWk4cVI

Nqp15hhu · 05-03-2021 6:28am

My families LivingDNA results are a mess.

My results:

How can I only be 1.8% Northern Irish lol? I was born here!

My Dad's results:

It all indicates that I supposedly inherited ALL of that 37% Irish AND inherited 48% Irish from my mum. But supposedly only 1.8% SW Scotland and NI.

I don't trust these results with such huge swings. How on earth can I be 37% Scottish on AncestryDNA but only 10% on LivingDNA!

pinkypinky · 05-03-2021 10:14am

It all comes down to their reference populations and who is in their database. Again, don't take it seriously. Just have a look, note the difference & move on.

Nqp15hhu · 05-03-2021 12:39pm

Well if they maintain they can sort BI Dna by region they should be able to do that. It’s a pretty serious thing to have completely dissimilar Dna results between a parent and a child.

I’m not going to ignore the result, it is an oddity.

Balmed Out · 06-03-2021 10:44am

I have a 28cm match on living dna who is also signed up to ancestry but we don't appear as matches on ancestry?

As for the ethnicity estimate with over 200 years of direct ancestors coming from Cork and kerry it does give me 98% cork and kerry and an odd 2% german.

Nqp15hhu · 06-03-2021 2:42pm

LivingDNA doesn’t go down to that resolution for Ireland

Balmed Out · 06-03-2021 3:06pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

LivingDNA doesn’t go down to that resolution for Ireland

But its living dna that shows the match while ancestry doesn't, its actually 26.88 cm estimating at 3rd to 5th cousin.

VirginiaB · 06-03-2021 4:59pm

Living DNA's cm estimate of 26.88 may differ from Ancestry's estimate. If Ancestry estimates under 8 cm, then the match won't show up at all on Ancestry. Ask them their username on Ancestry and search that way. If you still can't find them, then Ancestry didn't find 8 cm or more to consider the two of you a match. From 8cm to 19cm, Ancestry would consider you 5th to 8th cousins.

RobMc59 · 06-03-2021 6:54pm

dubhthach wrote: »

What I always suggest is if people have tested at either AncestryDNA or 23andme that they create a FTDNA account and then transfer in their test results form these companies. You can do this without providing an additional sample for testing.

Of course subsequently if individual is male they can always request a upgrade to a basic Y-DNA str test (which will require a new sample). It's a fairly cheap way to get into their database.

I`ve taken your advice by uploading my DNA to FTDNA and am interested in a Y DNA test they provide.Having signed up with them there is a Y DNA 12 test currently available at $59.I`ve been able to trace family history using UK census returns but Irish ancestry has been more difficult as all the paternal entries are annoyingly just listed as place of birth: `Ireland`.I understand this will only provide basic information but is it likely to give any clues to where my paternal family originated in Ireland?

Nqp15hhu · 06-03-2021 6:58pm

Y-DNA won’t necessarily tell you where your ancestors are from. I have Big Y and my two matches aren’t from this area.

RobMc59 · 06-03-2021 7:06pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Y-DNA won’t necessarily tell you where your ancestors are from. I have Big Y and my two matches aren’t from this area.

I`ve read your posts with interest as you seem to have the same issues I`ve had,confusing ethnicity estimates involving NI,Scotland and Ireland.You obviously are certain of your ethnicity origins which are mostly plantation whereas I`m unsure as I`ve mentioned in my previous post.Did you gain any useful information from the big Y test(is that the more in depth test?)

pinkypinky · 06-03-2021 7:32pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`ve taken your advice by uploading my DNA to FTDNA and am interested in a Y DNA test they provide.Having signed up with them there is a Y DNA 12 test currently available at $59.I`ve been able to trace family history using UK census returns but Irish ancestry has been more difficult as all the paternal entries are annoyingly just listed as place of birth: `Ireland`.I understand this will only provide basic information but is it likely to give any clues to where my paternal family originated in Ireland?

I think you would have to provide a new DNA sample for them to do the Y test but would really not advise Y12. You won't get anything useful from that - the minimum recommended is Y37 and even that is fairly unhelpful. As an indicator, I've got 3 Y37 tests on family members and have yet to find a single person in any of them with the same surname or make any concrete connection to anyone who is a match. There are not enough Irish people in the database yet.

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