what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

Andy From Sligo · 05-12-2019 4:12pm

From our council's website about fires - i doubt if people in the area even realise, or bother to even search for information, or stick to it as i would say a lot of stuff just gets thrown into tho ol' open fire ...

Burning Waste

Burning Household Waste

Can I burn household waste?
No – burning of household waste is illegal under the Air Pollution Act 1987 which obliges us all not to cause or allow emissions in such a quantity as to be a nuisance or cause air pollution even if you are burning:

on the open fire
in a range,
in a mini-incinerator
in a solid fuel burner
on a bonfire
The Waste Management Act 1996 also prohibits the burning of any waste type except in accordance with a permit.

Burning waste can:

[LIST=2]
[*]Constitute a nuisance to neighbours (e.g. smoke drafting through clean washing on a line)

[*]Release many very harmful chemicals into the air you breathe. Waste nowadays has many more chemicals in it that you may not expect. Paper wastes may even contain synthetic materials, preservatives and even plastics e.g. magazines are a lot glossier, envelopes have plastic windows. The chemicals in waste are only often truly destroyed when burned at very, very high temperatures (e.g. temperature of incinerators).
[/LIST]

TheAsYLuMkeY · 05-12-2019 4:19pm

I regards to the actual question of the thread,

I believe it is primal, we are not long of the ability to provide heat to ourselves without it being from an actual fire, preceding that going back millennia we only had life saving and sustaining warmth on cold nights from fire, it also allows and allowed us to cook food.

Given that the length of time we have had and relied on it far far outweigh when we have not, i think it is still hard coded into our DNA and psychology to like an open fire.

I pose this question to the original poster,

If you did not have to deal with all the negative aspects of a real fire in your home you pointed out, do you like the feel, sound and look of real fire?

Andy From Sligo · 05-12-2019 9:28pm

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I pose this question to the original poster,

If you did not have to deal with all the negative aspects of a real fire in your home you pointed out, do you like the feel, sound and look of real fire?

oh yeah of course - love the look of a real fire .. and if it were a proper working chimney where it had a good updraught where the smoke went up the chimney and not come back into the room (especially when opening or closing an internal door) and i didnt have to get the coal in from the outside or clean the grate out or have to light it then yeah I would have an open fire back I reckon.

I wouldnt be burning that smokey stuff though (polish coal isnt it?) thats just dirt! and stinks

Ubbquittious · 05-12-2019 10:06pm

air wrote: »

This closing down of stoves is what drives the emmissions through the roof. If you want to burn fuel as cleanly as possible you need to give it plenty of supply air so that it will burn flat out.

When you close it down and smoulder the fuel for hours it produces horrific levels of smoke and PM as there isn't enough air for complete combustion.

It isn't as simple as that. The combustion temperature makes a huge difference to what kind of stuff comes out of the chimney and how efficiently the thing runs. There is an optimal amount of airflow you need to let in, too much and the fire burns too cold, not enough and the fire will die

Snow Garden · 05-12-2019 10:59pm

I actually find building/lighting a fire and watching it grow a real pleasure. I even like taking the ashes outside and putting it on the compost heap. It seems to contribute to excellent compost.
In fact there is nothing about an open fire that I do not like!

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly · 05-12-2019 11:43pm

I have the fire lit now. The dog loves it.

Open fires are deadly.

deezell · 05-12-2019 11:52pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

From our council's website about fires - i doubt if people in the area even realise, or bother to even search for information, or stick to it as i would say a lot of stuff just gets thrown into tho ol' open fire ...

Burning Waste

Burning Household Waste

Can I burn household waste?
No – burning of household waste is illegal under the Air Pollution Act 1987 which obliges us all not to cause or allow emissions in such a quantity as to be a nuisance or cause air pollution even if you are burning:

on the open fire
in a range,
in a mini-incinerator
in a solid fuel burner
on a bonfire....

Can you still burn garden waste? Specifically dried out tree prunings, clippings, thorny rose stems etc. Stuff that you can't compost. It's carbon neutral after all, wood is just stored sunlight.

Andy From Sligo · 05-12-2019 11:58pm

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

I have the fire lit now. The dog loves it.

Open fires are deadly.

I know, carbon monoxide poisoning if the chimney gets blocked ....

Andy From Sligo · 06-12-2019 12:06am

deezell wrote: »

Can you still burn garden waste? Specifically dried out tree prunings, clippings, thorny rose stems etc. Stuff that you can't compost. It's carbon neutral after all, wood is just stored sunlight.

no, its still anti-social aspect of it. - if you burn garden waste and its a lovely drying day my washing on the line will come in smelling of smoke and I will have to wash it all over again. If it a lovely day and I want to open up my window (which I like to do all year round on nice days) then the smell of your bonfire in the garden (even if it is just twigs and ****e) smoke comes in through my window and makes the inside of my house smell like a bonfire. - even without my windows open I have 4" vents in the wall (as part of building regulations) and the smoke finds its way into them too.

Be grand if the smoke off the twigs and that your burning magically went vertical up into the sky as your burning it but alas as sure as cigarette smoke always directs itself to non-smokers face, a fire in the garden the smoke from that goes in all directions ...

An Ri rua · 06-12-2019 1:00am

Because a living flame picture is a sacred thing. That's the why.

Plus there's so much physically good about storing, preparing stacking fuel.
Norwegian Wood: The internationally bestselling guide to chopping and storing firewood https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0857052551/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_1Nz6DbF6HBE67

An Ri rua · 06-12-2019 1:13am

air wrote: »

Exactly. If you insist on using a stove you should buy one of the actual size you need for the room (most are 2 - 3 times oversized) and let it run as intended.
If you want continuous heat for central heating or whatever put in a batch boiler and a thermal store. Less smoke, much higher efficiency, a cleaner chimney and environment.
You also have much less fuel handling and processing as they take large logs.

I use an EcoGrate for the past 5 years, along with ruf hardwood briquettes and smokeless nuggets and a mix of whitethorn, blackthorn and elm. Plus running an Inverter paraffin heater in the kitchen. I only use the oil in midwinter for space heating downstairs. Apart from that, upstairs only.
In the shoulder season, I use an open fire lined with storage heater bricks, including out in the hearth. 12 in total. The heat capture is tremendous. I like to experiment with my open fire. Ala rocket mass heater.
I've used a rocket stove in the fireplace surrounded by thermal mass (storage bricks) to interesting effect. But a rocket stove isn't a rocket mass heater.
An open fire as it stands is very inefficient but much of the smoke issues come from incomplete combustion, poor quality fuel and poor firecraft.

Andy From Sligo · 06-12-2019 1:26am

Stovepipe wrote: »

Stoves are so much more efficient than an open fire. We changed over a few years ago and would never go back. Slashed the fuel burn, too. There should be a countrywide ban on coal on an open fire; we had a dense fog in our area a few days ago and the stink of coal around the village was unreal. We keep up the coal burning, we'll end up like the Chinese, wearing masks all the time.

I wouldn't be too far off exaggerating if i said I have been in some towns and villages in Ireland lately that have depicted the scene in this picture (exclude the London double decker):

so, its no longer 1952 and we are not China the roads and streets these days should really not be looking like this in modern day Ireland! .. we really got to look at ourselves and our way of living and as romantic and traditional/ quaint way of Irish life of lighting coal fires are in winter and maybe try to break away and embrace cleaner burning fuel and pretty soon?

Muahahaha · 06-12-2019 1:37am

Just got a wood burning stove installed a while back and only lit it for the first time last week. Absolutely love it and its great that burning wood produces so little ash. I got 8 fires out of it before i had to clean it out

air · 06-12-2019 2:16pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It isn't as simple as that. The combustion temperature makes a huge difference to what kind of stuff comes out of the chimney and how efficiently the thing runs. There is an optimal amount of airflow you need to let in, too much and the fire burns too cold, not enough and the fire will die

Of course, and starving a stove almost completely of supply air ensures that neither the air flow nor the combustion temperature are optimal for clean burning.

air · 06-12-2019 2:21pm

An Ri rua wrote: »

much of the smoke issues come from incomplete combustion, poor quality fuel and poor firecraft.

I agree totally and things would be much better if all this was managed properly.

Unfortunately people can't be trusted to do this and I can't see any alternative to a complete ban on solid fuels in urban areas in the future.

Ubbquittious · 06-12-2019 7:45pm

air wrote: »

Of course, and starving a stove almost completely of supply air ensures that neither the air flow nor the combustion temperature are optimal for clean burning.

You get a feel for it fairly quickly if you have a stove. I really don't know where the anti-stove and anti-open fire sentiment is coming from

Air pollution has been on the way down across europe since the 90s

LirW · 06-12-2019 8:14pm

Anyone who wants an open fire should seriously consider a masonry fire. My granny back home has one in her house and it's the best thing ever, keeps the place cosy the whole winter.

I have a fireplace but rarely use it, I'm so not bothered dealing with the local dodgy wood dealers that try to sell you softwood as hardwood and I hate the smell of coal.
Too broke to actually get a small stove for the room.

I hate that so many people in my area burn poor quality fuel. Additional there are plenty that straight up burn their rubbish in it. It's so bad on my road that I have no urge to be outside during heating season because the fumes and the smell in the air are horrible. It comes down to people wanting a nice fire but don't care about the crap they're burning.

Snow Garden · 06-12-2019 8:17pm

We have a stove that heats the water in the tank. The difference between stove heated water and oil heated water is actually quite remarkable when you are having a shower the next morning. There just seems to be more depth in the heat, more substance. I always miss it during the warmer months.

Snow Garden · 06-12-2019 8:19pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

not technically true i should think - fires can warm up rooms to 30'c or more. Normal room temperature is 20'c - more heat = more germs, they love heat , multiply more - sore throats , headaches , lethargic , fumes blowing back in the room when wind blowing in wrong direction , dangerous if chimney gets blocked, or catch fire to something nearby .. no I don't think open fires are good for your health TBH

I'd go out on a limb here and say I bet you could live without one honestly ...

You'd be technically wrong.

Let me out it another way...I will never live without an open fire.

Snow Garden · 06-12-2019 8:21pm

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/relaxing-by-the-fire-has-is-good-for-your-health-1-3613611

Relaxing in front of an open crackling fire after a stressful day has clear health benefits, a study has found.

The trance-like relaxing effects of a campfire are well known but now scientists have found that an open fire reduces blood pressure – the longer people sit in front of a roaring fire, the greater the relaxing effect it has on them.

Brain scans showed that even when the flames and noise are simulated in a laboratory they reduce blood pressure.

The findings may even explain why last year’s Norwegian television programme broadcasting a crackling fireplace for 12 hours proved so popular.

Campfires and fires in a hearth have played a key role in the evolution of human beings, with the flicker and crackle of burning logs directly linked to human psychology.

denismc · 06-12-2019 9:01pm

Right, how many of ye remember this:

pablo128 · 06-12-2019 9:29pm

Could you imagine camping with your mates up the side of a mountain and one of them wrestling a super ser up the hill. :pac:

badabing106 · 06-12-2019 9:34pm

Nothing beats coming back to a crackling open fire after hunting and catching wild game on a cold and brisk early evening. Cooking and then eating your hard earned meal, and feeling the warmth of the fire puts you into a state of meditative bliss

gozunda · 06-12-2019 9:36pm

LirW wrote: »

Anyone who wants an open fire should seriously consider a masonry fire. My granny back home has one in her house and it's the best thing ever, keeps the place cosy the whole winter.

I have a fireplace but rarely use it, I'm so not bothered dealing with the local dodgy wood dealers that try to sell you softwood as hardwood and I hate the smell of coal.
Too broke to actually get a small stove for the room.

I hate that so many people in my area burn poor quality fuel. Additional there are plenty that straight up burn their rubbish in it. It's so bad on my road that I have no urge to be outside during heating season because the fumes and the smell in the air are horrible. It comes down to people wanting a nice fire but don't care about the crap they're burning.

What's a masonry fire?

air · 06-12-2019 9:52pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

You get a feel for it fairly quickly if you have a stove. I really don't know where the anti-stove and anti-open fire sentiment is coming from

Air pollution has been on the way down across europe since the 90s

You get a feel for it quickly if you take an interest, many don't.

Air pollution is down primarily due to improvements in industrial and vehicle emissions.
There's very little scope for further improvements there other than the shift to electric vehicles.

According to this website an older wood stove emits 15 to 40g of particulate matter per hour.
I'd be fairly confident that a turf fire damped down as promoted by a few people in this thread emits a lot more.

A Euro 6 compliant diesel on the other hand can emit no more than 0.005g/km of particulate matter.

So even taking the lower figure of 15g per hour for a wood stove a single stove emits more PM than 40 cars doing 80kph.

If an average car does 18,000km per annum at 50kph, it's only running for 360 hours a year.
I'd guess a wood stove would run for at least twice that number of hours per year (say 4 months a year for 6 hours).
This would mean the PM emissions of one wood stove would be equivalent to that of 80 cars.

Hopefully this helps explain where the anti wood stove sentiment is coming from.

air · 06-12-2019 9:55pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

We have a stove that heats the water in the tank. The difference between stove heated water and oil heated water is actually quite remarkable when you are having a shower the next morning. There just seems to be more depth in the heat, more substance. I always miss it during the warmer months.

What absolute nonsense. Hot water is hot water.
It's almost certain that the tank is heated by two indirect circuits.
The only possible difference is in the temperature.

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 1:59am

LirW wrote: »

Anyone who wants an open fire should seriously consider a masonry fire. My granny back home has one in her house and it's the best thing ever, keeps the place cosy the whole winter.

I have a fireplace but rarely use it, I'm so not bothered dealing with the local dodgy wood dealers that try to sell you softwood as hardwood and I hate the smell of coal.
Too broke to actually get a small stove for the room.

I hate that so many people in my area burn poor quality fuel. Additional there are plenty that straight up burn their rubbish in it. It's so bad on my road that I have no urge to be outside during heating season because the fumes and the smell in the air are horrible. It comes down to people wanting a nice fire but don't care about the crap they're burning.

well said - yep poor quality fuel / coal and bunging all the rubbish in the fireplace you can smell in the air that its not just a coal or turf or wood smell a lot of the time I just think a lot of the time 'what the hell are they burning!'

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 2:06am

Snow Garden wrote: »

We have a stove that heats the water in the tank. The difference between stove heated water and oil heated water is actually quite remarkable when you are having a shower the next morning. There just seems to be more depth in the heat, more substance. I always miss it during the warmer months.

i think I know what you mean about how different the shower feels if its been heated up by immersion heater or by oil. - in the summer our oil boiler was off all summer and the water was just heated up by electric immersion heater in the hot press.

Now here's another thing. - in previous houses we have rented the central heating and oil were heated up by an older non-condensing boiler , but the house we are in at present has a newer condensing oil boiler - now not only is it much more efficient than the older ones , but I feel (unless its in my head) that the showers feel much better here , I will use your terminology because I like it - yes it feels like there is more depth in the heat, more substance with this water heated up by condensing boiler rather than the old fashioned traditional oil boilers.

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 2:14am

Snow Garden wrote: »

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/relaxing-by-the-fire-has-is-good-for-your-health-1-3613611

Relaxing in front of an open crackling fire after a stressful day has clear health benefits, a study has found.

The trance-like relaxing effects of a campfire are well known but now scientists have found that an open fire reduces blood pressure – the longer people sit in front of a roaring fire, the greater the relaxing effect it has on them.

Brain scans showed that even when the flames and noise are simulated in a laboratory they reduce blood pressure.

The findings may even explain why last year’s Norwegian television programme broadcasting a crackling fireplace for 12 hours proved so popular.

Campfires and fires in a hearth have played a key role in the evolution of human beings, with the flicker and crackle of burning logs directly linked to human psychology.

have you ever put a digital thermometer in your living room when an open fire is burning well? - my in-laws used to and when I visited them I put a thermometer in their living room it reached 28'c , no lie it had a back boiler on the open fireplace (a grant triple pass I think it were) and you would scald your hands on the radiators in the rest of the house they were scalding. the water that came out of the hot tap would nearly be as hot as a kettle - they loved it (they were old and felt the cold) but when I went down and sat in their living room it was terribly uncomfortable and stuffy I had to strip off and it was nice to actually get out into the cold frosty air afterwards - they would fall asleep in their armchairs and always felt tired - is it any wonder when their living room was that temperature in the winter .

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 2:15am

pablo128 wrote: »

Could you imagine camping with your mates up the side of a mountain and one of them wrestling a super ser up the hill. :pac:

its a lot lighter when you remove the gas bottle

what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

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