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GERALD FLEMING ON RTE LAST NIGHT

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    When this country is pushing an agenda as hard as this you can be sure it sees pound signs somewhere. Tax,tax,tax and Joe public will be the ones paying.

    There's a damn sight more profit to be made from digging up the earth's dwindling resources, processing them, manufacturing into crap there is no real need for, and selling them on to a consumer who has been trained to incessantly purchase stuff,
    AND leaving it to that same purchaser to discard the whole bag of tricks, somehow.

    That oil to make those plastic clothes, packets, toys, furniture etc doesn't go back into the oilwells, you know.

    Fracking in your corner of Ireland? Fancy it?

    Ask yourself, who makes the biggest profit here?
    Climate scientists in some underfunded university? Or huge corporations who need to go on selling?

    Loss of bio-diversity is barely visible because it is slow, gradual, subtle.
    But it does have downstream effects.
    Food will get more expensive. Transport also. Watch this space!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    gozunda wrote: »
    . . . You couldn't make it up - except they do ....

    The politically correct term for what RTE did is disinformation and fake news. They are abusing trusted authoritative voices like Gerald Fleming and their own standing as the Irish states public service broadcaster to foist an agenda on the Irish public that is unsupported by empirical data and relies on biased projections generated by people using computerised models and graphics. The fact that these are computer simulations with a track record for inaccuracy is never explained to the public.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    I dunno lads, thermal expansion is an issue as well as ice melting. As the sea gets warmer the water expands and obviously sea levels rise.

    There are a lot of predictions of a 1 metre sea level rise by 2100, so 400mm by 2050 is plausible.

    Add a metre to below and RTE's images are not far wrong.



    High%20tide%20on%20The%20River%20Liffey%20(Generated%20thumbnail)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    The politically correct term for what RTE did is disinformation and fake news. They are abusing trusted authoritative voices like Gerald Fleming and their own standing as the Irish states public service broadcaster to foist an agenda on the Irish public that is unsupported by empirical data and relies on biased projections generated by people using computerised models and graphics. The fact that these are computer simulations with a track record for inaccuracy is never explained to the public.


    NASA-Satellite-sea-level-rise-observations-1993-Nov-2018.jpg

    Here is the data since 1993, if it stays on the same path or accelerates remains to be seen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Day Lewin wrote: »
    There's a damn sight more profit to be made from digging up the earth's dwindling resources, processing them, manufacturing into crap there is no real need for, and selling them on to a consumer who has been trained to incessantly purchase stuff,
    AND leaving it to that same purchaser to discard the whole bag of tricks, somehow.

    There is an expression where there is muck there is brass, there is an industry dealing with the output from your personal consumption. Minerals stuck in the ground are no good to anyone, compare your personal standard of living with that of your ancestors, you live better than royalty did in centuries past.
    Day Lewin wrote: »
    That oil to make those plastic clothes, packets, toys, furniture etc doesn't go back into the oilwells, you know.

    It all gets recycled back into the planets ecosystem over time. In the meantime you use it to keep warm, manufacture the tools you need for survival, the medicine, the fertiliser and the fabrics to keep warm and dry on your cycle to work.

    Simulated sunlight reveals how 98% of plastics at sea go missing each year


    Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds

    Day Lewin wrote: »
    Fracking in your corner of Ireland? Fancy it?

    It is banned today on this Island, but when it gets the go ahead it will take place in an area known as the Northwest Ireland Carboniferous Basin which has been identified as a shale rich area, this comprises parts of Fermanagh, Cavan, Sligo, Leitrim, Donegal and Roscommon.


    It case you have not realised your electricity generation is department on gas to maintain a stable grid. 71% of Ireland's electricity supply was generated from natural gas in July 2018. Once the Kinsale and Corrib fields are exhausted - what then? Only a matter of time before the current lobbies are overruled by economic necessity.

    Day Lewin wrote: »
    Ask yourself, who makes the biggest profit here?
    Climate scientists in some underfunded university? Or huge corporations who need to go on selling?

    And what is the purpose of profit? It is a market mechanism to inform people where products are needed most and profit is transient, just as loss is there to tell people stop wasting resources. Most of the "climate scientists" who have been promoting doom over the past decades have an abysmal track record in predicting future weather patterns and environmental impact and have been reduced to using their biased computer models as props to hide their lack of knowledge. The universities who promote junk science are currently being compensated at a level unsupported by their results. If they could accurately predict the future their track record would support them and so would their funding. They have no grounds for complaint.

    Day Lewin wrote: »
    Loss of bio-diversity is barely visible because it is slow, gradual, subtle.
    But it does have downstream effects.
    Food will get more expensive. Transport also. Watch this space!

    You cannot explain how loss of bio-diversity is connected to the price of food or transport. I am watching that space and with Europe loosing 1,000 farms per day it is not lack of biodiversity driving up prices, the farmers of the Netherlands and Germany have something to say about people with two pot plants in the window sill dictating how to run their business. In fact our food generation is dependent on select species of plants like wheat and rice and animals like cattle, pigs and sheep all of which have been selectively bred over thousands of years to support the human population. Letting this island become overrun with forest and reintroducing wolves is a recipe for poverty and destruction of human life.

    The notion that humans are alien to the planets ecosystems and must be reduced to a select few is at the core of your posting it is the ideology of the extinction rebellion cult

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    easypazz wrote: »
    . .
    Here is the data since 1993, if it stays on the same path or accelerates remains to be seen.

    Even those numbers don't support the 300mm to 400 mm figures allegedly quoted by Gerald Fleming nor does that level support apocalyptic computer generated images of flooding in O'Connell Street as promoted in that RTE program.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    Even those numbers don't support the 300mm to 400 mm figures allegedly quoted by Gerald Fleming nor does that level support apocalyptic computer generated images of flooding in O'Connell Street as promoted in that RTE program.

    If that trend continues then it would be ~265mm in 80 years and ~100mm by 2050.

    "They" are predicting an acceleration in sea level rises from here.

    "They" being articles on the internet, of which there are many, its hard to know which ones to believe though.

    The sea will need to go from rising 3.3mm a year to 13.3mm per year on average.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    easypazz wrote: »
    If that trend continues then it would be ~265mm in 80 years and ~100mm by 2050.

    "They" are predicting an acceleration in sea level rises from here.

    "They" being articles on the internet, of which there are many, its hard to know which ones to believe though.

    The sea will need to go from rising 3.3mm a year to 13.3mm per year on average.

    Exactly, the problem you are wrestling with is how to measure sea level rise and fall and how those numbers are derived, it's not easy to measure this and the figures you are reporting are just assumptions. What are those assumptions we don't know? - but "they" have constructed a computer model based on the how they think the world works and fed it some data and then produced the number which then gets broadcast in the media. That number has no basis in reality i.e. when measured in the real world.


    Another factor to consider centering on O'Connell Street and the quays is that is all reclaimed land. The original river crossing from which the name Baile Atha Cliath derives was supposedly around where Hueston station is today and the original Viking settlements from which the name Dublin (the true meaning is lost in time) derives were not where the Custom house is today which was mud flats then. That area is all reclaimed, built and maintained by human engineering, therefore there is an engineering solution to any flooding that may or may not occur in the future. There is no cause for alarm.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    Exactly, the problem you are wrestling with is how to measure sea level rise and fall and how those numbers are derived, it's not easy to measure this and the figures you are reporting are just assumptions. What are those assumptions we don't know? - but "they" have constructed a computer model based on the how they think the world works and fed it some data and then produced the number which then gets broadcast in the media. That number has no basis in reality i.e. when measured in the real world.


    Another factor to consider centering on O'Connell Street and the quays is that is all reclaimed land. The original river crossing from which the name Baile Atha Cliath derives was supposedly around where Hueston station is today and the original Viking settlements from which the name Dublin (the true meaning is lost in time) derives were not where the Custom house is today which was mud flats then. That area is all reclaimed, built and maintained by human engineering, therefore there is an engineering solution to any flooding that may or may not occur in the future. There is no cause for alarm.

    Jeez Pa....where do you think you're going posting here with your well-researched, logical, calm and reasoned responses??
    What happened to your hyperbole, hysteria and hearsay button?!!
    It seems your logic and reason has shut down the thread - they're all in shock! :D:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    Fell asleep watching tonight's programme. I think since George took over the environment at Rte they've all gone into hyper mode. 10 years ago the economy had us doomed now it's global warming!! Lol

    George 'Lorenzo' Lee.

    My new name for him after his self indulgence for the 'hurricane' that had a max gust of 107km over Ireland.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Hooter23


    The weather we got this year will be different than the weather we get next year..the weather we got 10 years ago is different than we get now...the weather we got 50 years was different than the weather they got 100 years ago...the weather we got 200 years ago was different than they got 100 years ago....

    The weather we get every year is different than the one before...It must be CLIMATE CHANGE:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Fell asleep watching tonight's programme. I think since George took over the environment at Rte they've all gone into hyper mode. 10 years ago the economy had us doomed now it's global warming!! Lol

    No brexit to talk about


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Meanwhile in the US ...
    Ruthless cold breaks dozens of long-lasting records in major cities throughout the East

    https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/ruthless-cold-breaks-dozens-of-long-lasting-records-in-major-cities-throughout-the-east/627067
    "A warming center is a heated facility where Chicago residents can go to find refuge from extreme cold weather conditions," the city wrote. "During the winter months, the Chicago Department of Family and Support Services (DFSS) operates six warming centers inside of the City’s six community service centers during work weekdays when temperatures dip below 32 degrees. Additional City facilities including, libraries, police stations or other structures might be made available after hours, on weekends, or on holidays, as conditions warrant."


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,802 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    gozunda wrote: »
    RTE is spending its money on tabloid style TV programmes in a bid to desperately increase viewer ratings. The stuff they are producing is truely worthy of a whole raft of Saturn Awards. Alongside the doomsday buses drowning on O'Connell Bridge and amongst other things we are also supposed to now take dietary advice from extremist plant food activists such as Dr Marco Springmann in their other recent screamers piece on planetary destruction - "What Planet are you on". The same show where participants get paid for their 'wokeness'. You couldnt make it up - except they do ....

    3g6nrt.jpg

    I believe Al Gore came out with similar bs doomsday alarmism over a decade ago

    armageddon-climate-change.jpg

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/3310137/Al-Gores-nine-Inconvenient-Untruths.html

    This might sound like a stupid question, but those images they showed were meant to highlight that Dublin would permanently have this water level, ok?

    So if the centre of Dublin was flooded all the time like that, why would you drive a double decker bus through it? How stupid are Dublin Bus??:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,802 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Very one sided agenda driven programme tonight.

    You aren't allowed to debate This.

    Its happening, and that's that.

    Now just do what you're told, pay your carbon taxes and shut up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    NIMAN wrote: »
    This might sound like a stupid question, but those images they showed were meant to highlight that Dublin would permanently have this water level, ok?

    So if the centre of Dublin was flooded all the time like that, why would you drive a double decker bus through it? How stupid are Dublin Bus??:rolleyes:

    Maybe it's an Dublin Aquabus ... :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    Very one sided agenda driven programme tonight.
    The agenda is to wake people up to the reality. With money making being the primary concern in life for the vast majority of the population on this planet its going to be touch and go to whether we can actually get all the competing interests to align enough to do something about it. IMO We really wont tackle this issue until there is one major cataclysmic event killing millions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Longing


    Naggdefy wrote: »
    George 'Lorenzo' Lee.

    My new name for him after his self indulgence for the 'hurricane' that had a max gust of 107km over Ireland.

    George Leerenzo;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Any mention in the show about RTE's generous use of taxis on expenses and the carbon generated by such single-passenger journeys?

    From the RTE Secret Producer:
    8:20 PM - 17 Sep 2017
    People are asking me good things to FOI - start with looking at taxis - especially ones booked 8AM to 11AM in the morning going to RTÉ and 5PM to 10PM in the evening going from RTÉ. They are mainly staff using them and claiming them back even though it is private travel.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Here's the full annual minimum Arctic sea ice volume dataset for the satellite era, with the trend for the past decade. In any case, sea ice has practically zero contribution to sea level.
    Your first link is blocked by my adblock.. tracker warning. Might be worth doing a scan if you aren't aware

    Eh, you wouldn't be presenting a 5 year time block as evidence here would you? The irony


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Any mention in the show about RTE's generous use of taxis on expenses and the carbon generated by such single-passenger journeys?

    From the RTE Secret Producer:
    8:20 PM - 17 Sep 2017
    People are asking me good things to FOI - start with looking at taxis - especially ones booked 8AM to 11AM in the morning going to RTÉ and 5PM to 10PM in the evening going from RTÉ. They are mainly staff using them and claiming them back even though it is private travel.

    'Claiming them back' = ripping off the Irish people and taking them for complete mugs. Isn't that right, D.4orbes?

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    Your first link is blocked by my adblock.. tracker warning. Might be worth doing a scan if you aren't aware

    Eh, you wouldn't be presenting a 5 year time block as evidence here would you? The irony

    "Eh" - as you say yourself - firstly, he was not relying on any "5 year time block" as evidence.
    Secondly, he provided the September Ice data on two charts - one for the last 40 years and one for the last decade.
    He gave a total of 8 referenced charts - and you choose to sneer the post because you don't like one of them.
    Sorry - there is nothing ironic in that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    Liffey4A wrote: »
    I always trust your opinion on this forum, always the voice of reason but have you any links to explain the artic/Greenland ice melt or lack there off?
    I'm not doubting you but all mainstream media is saying the opposite.
    I'd be interested in seeing the data for myself.

    Do you not think that they all have to sing of the same hymn sheet when pushing a worldwide agenda?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Dakota Dan wrote: »
    Do you not think that they all have to sing of the same hymn sheet when pushing a worldwide agenda?
    I'm not sure it is as much a worldwide agenda as it is the bourgeoisie and their useful green tea supping suburban idiots needing *something' to believe in. They are as bad as those fundamentalist cultists who quote the Book of Revelations at every given opportunity, and like those fundamentalist cultists, their prophesies of the end of days always seem to get pushed further and further into the future when previous ones curiously fail.

    Charles Manson springs to mind, and it is more than a little interesting how his 'followers' were all from particularly comfortable backgrounds also.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Faustino


    I’m certain man made pollution is having some sort of effect (which we should be amending) but I always have a chuckle when I read headlines like yesterday “Venice experiencing highest tide in 50 years”

    So what was the reason 50 years ago? 🙂


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Faustino wrote: »
    I’m certain man made pollution is having some sort of effect
    You could have a point.

    "The fact that our planet is getting warmer even though aerosols are cooling it down at higher rates than previously thought brings us to a Catch-22 situation: Global efforts to improve air quality by developing cleaner fuels and burning less coal could end up harming our planet by reducing the number of aerosols in the atmosphere, and by doing so, diminishing aerosols' cooling ability to offset global warming."

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190122104611.htm

    I also recall reading a few years back that the mass reduction of industrial scale coal burning in eastern Europe, Germany & the UK etc over the last 20-30 years coincided with a sharp warming in the Arctic. Whether there is some truth to that or not, I guess it doesn't really matter in the end.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Here's the full annual minimum Arctic sea ice volume dataset for the satellite era, with the trend for the past decade. In any case, sea ice has practically zero contribution to sea level.






    Extent is similar. All data here.






    Greenland melt area has reduced over the past decade. From here and here.










    Regarding Greenland fisheries, was that piece actually shot now in November? I didn't see it. In any case, the subpolar gyre is anomalously cold over the past several years and may be signalling the decline in the positive AMO we've had since the mid-'90s.


    Taken from the same website:
    NSIDC scientist Julienne Stroeve was one of the contributors to the chapters on sea ice and Arctic amplification—the outsized rise in Arctic air temperatures compared to the globe as a whole. One of the drivers of the special report is recognition that the oceans play a key role in the changing climate system, absorbing 90 percent of the excess heat within Earth’s system and up to a third of the carbon dioxide. Sea ice also reflects much of the sun’s energy back out to space, helping to keep the planet cooler than it otherwise would be. There is high confidence that the Arctic sea ice cover will continue to shrink (Figure 6).
    As you say though, the melting arctic itself will not really affect sea levels but the reduction in its reflective effect is expected to lead to increased temperatures.
    The effects of anthropogenic warming are not as clear in the Antarctic, in particular for sea ice trends. This results in low confidence in any forecast of how Antarctic sea ice will evolve. The report also highlights how permafrost and snow cover are expected to change, as well as sea level rise from glacier and ice sheet mass losses. Given that the Antarctic ice sheet is starting to contribute more each year to global mean sea level rise, the potential for a meter (3.28 feet) of sea level rise by the end of the century remains possible. A key message of the report is that limiting global warming to a total of less than 2 degrees Celsius (4 degrees Fahrenheit) by the end of the century will help to mitigate the negative effects of climate change.
    So while the the figure of 0.3-0.4m by 2050 might be on the high side, surely it's better to overestimate than underestimate?

    It's a fairly simple concept - global temperatures are rising (I don't think anyone is disputing this?), increased temperatures mean ice melts, increased melting ice means higher sea levels and also increased global heating (due to less heat being reflected by the white snow/ice)

    It could be that climate change is a massive conspiracy by the vast majority of the scientists in the world but it seems unlikely to me


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Not sure how accurate http://flood.firetree.net/ is but shows 1m increments of sea rise levels and flooding.

    Agreed we all know sea levels are rising, more storms, more rain but I believe it's how it is being reported is the main problem. Lot of the media is hyping it up and also when that and the drama is being pushed at you day in and day out you start ignoring it, call it climate change fatigue.
    The TV3 program a few months back with the professor from Maynooth was about the best one so far it was measured and he had a lot of valid points about climate change and especially about the EU farming policy. Good example was farming creates C02, EU pushing farmers to have more cattle which then produces more C02, which means more bad weather.
    There is only so much fodder that can be grown for cattle and again more cattle, more fodder needed, more bad weather so less fodder. We are getting to the point that there is not enough land to produce the fodder to feed all the cattle.
    For me that type of info is far more beneficial than showing a cgi of dublin streets with a meter of water.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Neddyusa wrote: »
    "Eh" - as you say yourself - firstly, he was not relying on any "5 year time block" as evidence.
    Secondly, he provided the September Ice data on two charts - one for the last 40 years and one for the last decade.
    He gave a total of 8 referenced charts - and you choose to sneer the post because you don't like one of them.
    Sorry - there is nothing ironic in that.

    Try looking at it again. His claim is related only to the last few years of the data. Which is technically correct the way it's phrased (if you trust the unsourced data I can't access), but the oldest tactic of the denialist is to claim short periods aren't suitable, hence the irony


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    I see president Higgins is preaching about it as he flies around Ireland in a jet plane.

    Leo flew to the UK a few weeks ago on the jet for a meeting with Boris.

    Governments really need to lead by example. Civil servants fly economy, or by train etc. where possible.


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