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Report on High Percentage of Traveller Unemployment

12357…16

Comments

  • #122
    HBC08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,280 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Before doing the default thing of lashing Travellers out of it, ask yourself if you’d employ one. Their issues and problems are well documented but just on a real level, while being honest with yourself, would you take one on? It’s easy to tell someone to get a job but if there’s nowhere willing to give you a start it’s a tough predicament.

    They'd need to start by putting in an application.


  • #123
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    HBC08 wrote:
    They'd need to start by putting in an application.

    There's no point, most employers wouldn't take them on, our educational and training facilities, and employment system clearly doesn't work for them


  • #124
    Ckendrick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 128 ✭✭Ckendrick


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    There's no point, most employers wouldn't take them on, our educational and training facilities, and employment system clearly doesn't work for them

    These facilities all work perfectly for the very vast majority of citizens.
    Are you suggesting that we change everything that works in the vague hope that a very small amount of people might decide that they want to integrate with the rest of society? Do you know or work with any travellers wanderer. I do.


  • #125
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Pointing the finger won't work, as that's exactly what we ve always been doing, a radically different approach is needed

    Bending over backwards is what we've been doing

    Far too much carrot and not near enough stick


  • #126
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    There's no point, most employers wouldn't take them on, our educational and training facilities, and employment system clearly doesn't work for them

    Because they have an overly generous welfare system to cushion them, there are no consequences to leaving school with no qualifications for travellers, also no financial consequences for having ten children, no consequences for trashing accommodation

    Travellers live a life devoid of responsibility and the left fully support this, everyone looses yet the same left want us to allow them write policy for the next few decades

    It's a bad joke


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  • #127
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Ckendrick wrote: »
    These facilities all work perfectly for the very vast majority of citizens.
    Are you suggesting that we change everything that works in the vague hope that a very small amount of people might decide that they want to integrate with the rest of society? Do you know or work with any travellers wanderer. I do.
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Bending over backwards is what we've been doing

    Far too much carrot and not near enough stick
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Because they have an overly generous welfare system to cushion them, there are no consequences to leaving school with no qualifications for travellers, also no financial consequences for having ten children, no consequences for trashing accommodation

    Travellers live a life devoid of responsibility and the left fully support this, everyone looses yet the same left want us to allow them write policy for the next few decades

    It's a bad joke

    im sorry to break it to you folks, but our educational and training facilities, and systems, fail an enormous of people, from both settlers to travelers, and beyond. many folks in the trades and alternatives, would effectively fall into these employment avenues, after struggling their way through these systems, only to be spat out along the way. our educational system in academically biased, when many humans are simply not designed as so, baring in mind, society requires many different types of people to function, from academically trained, to trades, alternatives etc etc etc. when all of the above fails, you end up on the dole, or worse.......our reality!


  • #128
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Pointing the finger won't work, as that's exactly what we ve always been doing, a radically different approach is needed

    I can see where you coming from. In a modern economy there are very limited employment opportunities for those that leave school early. The change in attitude towards education needs to come from within the traveller community themselves. Now there are more going onto third level etc so hopefully others in the community will be influenced by that but it’s going to be a slow change. Do they need homework clubs or other initiatives to help them bridge the gap educationally. That is where the state can play a part.
    If you have low education attained and are unskilled you end up with only low paying jobs being your options. Leaving you in a situation where you cannot support a family on those wages. That poverty trap is very hard to get out off.

    I know a traveller who is a nurse and she has worked since she qualified. She was mostly raised by a foster family who really encouraged her to finish school and go on the third level. The other siblings of hers that I know don’t have jobs. The difference is her education and qualifications.


  • #129
    bobbyss
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Wanderer78 wrote:
    There's no point, most employers wouldn't take them on, our educational and training facilities, and employment system clearly doesn't work for them


    Why don't the facilities and system work for them?


  • #130
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    mohawk wrote: »
    I can see where you coming from. In a modern economy there are very limited employment opportunities for those that leave school early. The change in attitude towards education needs to come from within the traveller community themselves. Now there are more going onto third level etc so hopefully others in the community will be influenced by that but it’s going to be a slow change. Do they need homework clubs or other initiatives to help them bridge the gap educationally. That is where the state can play a part.
    If you have low education attained and are unskilled you end up with only low paying jobs being your options. Leaving you in a situation where you cannot support a family on those wages. That poverty trap is very hard to get out off.

    I know a traveller who is a nurse and she has worked since she qualified. She was mostly raised by a foster family who really encouraged her to finish school and go on the third level. The other siblings of hers that I know don’t have jobs. The difference is her education and qualifications.

    we ve been trying this approach also, im not convinced its working, yes numbers are increasing, very slowly, of travelers continuing education, but i actually think this is also largely failing. the only thing i can think of is encouraging them to become self employed, to provide services for each other, but im sure that would also be fraught with problems, due to feuding etc


  • #131
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Why don't the facilities and system work for them?

    this is not an easy one to answer, and i dont think anyone knows for definite, but it does seem to me anyway, complex psychological disorders are playing a part, but only a part, theres more than likely deep social problems at play within these communities, to the point we may not truly understand


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  • #132
    eggy81
    Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭eggy81


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Pointing the finger won't work, as that's exactly what we ve always been doing, a radically different approach is needed

    Nothing will work.


  • #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    ED E wrote: »
    Another govt report says 11.5%, triple the general populace.
    It's 9% or 11.5% depending on how you measure employment and the proportion of people at working age. But with the latter measurement, the settled people's disability incidence also rises to 5%.

    So nowhere near the majority of/ most ravellers are on disability. That claim is completely false.
    This post will probably be silently deleted too as only certain "truth" is permitted here.
    Lol? Yeah watch out for Novachok on your hall door, too.


  • #134
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    eggy81 wrote: »
    Nothing will work.

    maybe, but we cant give up, as this is festering, everyone is getting p1ssed off with the current situation regarding them, theyre not gonna simply go away, criminal activates are high in the community, this is an everybody problem


  • #135
    thegetawaycar
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    How does one get the ethnic status of traveller? I ask as a serious question, can I just decide to be a traveller, do I need to be born into a known traveller family etc...?

    I actually believe in a lot of cases now the issue is that older generation travellers hold back the newer/younger members from becoming employed/educated. They don't want to let go of the past and believe it will kill their traditions.
    A lot of younger travellers do quite well in primary school but it is frowned upon as they get older.

    I went to school with a few and as they got past junior cert (if they didn't drop out) they had to pretty much avoid their own community as they were being harrassed, they started hanging around with non-travellers a lot more and the 2 I still know now have decent jobs and a lot of the younger travellers look up to them and want to be like them.

    More role models like that being encouraged will help the next generation.

    Even the ones that dropped out are back being friendly with them and encourage their kids to look up to them. The mindset is beginning to change but it will be VERY slow. It's probably easier to do for the ones that are settled travellers as they get more inbedded in their community.


  • #136
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Dare I say it, some of the problems are deeply embedded in their own culture.

    One of the ladies I worked with (coincidentally, they were all young women) told me that she was getting a very hard time at home for not being married and not wanting children (yet). She was 26, and her father in particular was putting a lot of pressure on her. She said their menfolk were absolutely against women working outside the home and that in their view, men worked and made the money and women should be at home looking after the house and the children.

    After she finished the programme, she did continue working, but the only job she could get was in childcare. She couldn't find an office anywhere that would give her a start in an admin role.


  • #137
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    eggy81 wrote: »
    Nothing will work.

    of course it will , travellers are no less inherently capable than anyone else , the problem is cultural , their culture is completely incompatible with a twenty first century economy and needs to be left behind .

    shoe makers
    men who shoed horses

    the list is long of obsolete ways of life or ways to earn a living , the sons and daughters of shoe makers and blacksmiths realised that life no longer had value and made the decision to learn skills suited to a modernising country , the left seem to want travellers to be some kind of state subsidised museum , the tax payer cant afford it and worse still its the bigotry of low expectations towards travellers , they are humans , not exotic animals

    we need to take back traveller policy from the progressive left , its been an abject failure.


  • #138
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    of course it will , travellers are no less inherently capable than anyone else , the problem is cultural , their culture is completely incompatible with a twenty first century economy and needs to be left behind .

    shoe makers
    men who shoed horses

    the list is long of obsolete ways of life or ways to earn a living , the sons and daughters of shoe makers and blacksmiths realised that life no longer had value and made the decision to learn skills suited to a modernising country , the left seem to want travellers to be some kind of state subsidised museum.
    You can't get a farrier for love nor money. They are in extremely high demand. Training programmes to specifically divert young travellers into trades like farriery, lorry driving, equitation and related jobs in the equine industry is exactly the type of thing that is needed.


  • #139
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    You can't get a farrier for love nor money. They are in extremely high demand. Training programmes to specifically divert young travellers into trades like farriery, lorry driving, equitation and related jobs in the equine industry is exactly the type of thing that is needed.

    cant see travellers going for truck driving , very poor pay , no wonder most are eastern european in terms of younger drivers


  • #140
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    cant see travellers going for truck driving , very poor pay , no wonder most are eastern european in terms of younger drivers
    Source?

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • #141
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    cant see travellers going for truck driving , very poor pay , no wonder most are eastern european in terms of younger drivers
    Truck driving isn't very poorly paid. My understanding was that it was a good income.

    Anyway, I was on a different tangent, meaning specifically the ability to drive a horsebox lorry. Guys who do that on racing yards and other establishments usually also work on the yard, and I'm mentioning it because they also are in short supply, like farriers are.

    I wonder has there ever been a programme to specifically get young travellers into schemes for targeted industries where young traveller men and women show an existing interest. Something like RACE, which is for trainee jockeys, but for a wider array of trades.


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  • #142
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Truck driving isn't very poorly paid. My understanding was that it was a good income.

    Anyway, I was on a different tangent, meaning specifically the ability to drive a horsebox lorry. Guys who do that on racing yards and other establishments usually also work on the yard, and I'm mentioning it because they also are in short supply, like farriers are.

    I wonder has there ever been a programme to specifically get young travellers into schemes for targeted industries where young traveller men and women show an existing interest. Something like RACE, which is for trainee jockeys, but for a wider array of trades.

    per hour , its barely above minimum wage , they do a lot more driving than officially recorded , any driver will tell you that


  • #143
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Truck driving isn't very poorly paid. My understanding was that it was a good income.

    Anyway, I was on a different tangent, meaning specifically the ability to drive a horsebox lorry. Guys who do that on racing yards and other establishments usually also work on the yard, and I'm mentioning it because they also are in short supply, like farriers are.

    I wonder has there ever been a programme to specifically get young travellers into schemes for targeted industries where young traveller men and women show an existing interest. Something like RACE, which is for trainee jockeys, but for a wider array of trades.

    Truck driving pay is absolutely rubbish. You'd be lucky to see 30k a year for 60 hr weeks before taxes. You'd get better pay 25 years ago driving a rigid.


  • #144
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    per hour , its barely above minimum wage , they do a lot more driving than officially recorded , any driver will tell you that

    Add a few thousand € spent on getting the different licnces all the way up to Artic, and the CPC, Safe Pass certification , ADR. etc.Not to mention nights spent sleeping in the cab in the middle of winter. Its not everyones cup of tea for sure.


  • #145
    Mike Murdock
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    this is not an easy one to answer, and i dont think anyone knows for definite, but it does seem to me anyway, complex psychological disorders are playing a part, but only a part, theres more than likely deep social problems at play within these communities, to the point we may not truly understand

    Is it the facilities and systems that are failing them? Or their own culture.


  • #146
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    jmreire wrote: »
    Add a few thousand € spent on getting the different licnces all the way up to Artic, and the CPC, Safe Pass certification , ADR. etc.Not to mention nights spent sleeping in the cab in the middle of winter. Its not everyones cup of tea for sure.

    It's a skilled job which is completely unrewarded, insurance costs etc make haulage a tight margin business so not having a go at employers


  • #147
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,516 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Mike Murdock wrote: »
    Is it the facilities and systems that are failing them? Or their own culture.

    Or is it Ireland’s culture that is failing?

    Replacing the word traveler with black and reading this thread reveals fascinating attitudes/relationships in Irish culture about their segregated minority.


  • #148
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Overheal wrote: »
    Or is it Ireland’s culture that is failing?

    Replacing the word traveler with black and reading this thread reveals fascinating attitudes/relationships in Irish culture about their segregated minority.

    Have you ever met a traveler?


  • #149
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Overheal wrote: »
    Or is it Ireland’s culture that is failing?

    Replacing the word traveler with black and reading this thread reveals fascinating attitudes/relationships in Irish culture about their segregated minority.


    why not replace it with the word cat instead because they outright refuse to work and only do as they please?
    But I guess that wouldn’t serve your purpose of calling everyone a racist


  • #150
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,516 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Have you ever met a traveler?

    Yes. I’m not the topic though am I.


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  • #151
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Overheal wrote: »
    Or is it Ireland’s culture that is failing?

    Replacing the word traveler with black and reading this thread reveals fascinating attitudes/relationships in Irish culture about their segregated minority.

    There is absolutely no comparison between black people and travellers. Utterly disparaging remark towards black people.


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