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Report on High Percentage of Traveller Unemployment

  • 13-04-2021 12:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭


    Traveller employment needs to become a significant focus for Government policy and strategy if unemployment among members is to be tackled, according to a new report.

    <snip>

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0413/1209538-traveller-employment/

    There's an inter-generational problem with unemployment in the community. Firstly, we need to focus on education and targeting areas for traveller employment. It is an more problematic for young traveller men. It's more common to meet traveller women in the workplace and they seem to do better in second level education. We live in a more diverse society, where integration should in theory be easier.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭touts


    There is a strong work culture among Travellers. The problem is there isn't a strong culture of taxable employment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭stratowide


    So that must mean that 20% are gainfully employed...Hmmm


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭Squeeonline


    Picachu face.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Would be good to see some figures on percentage finishing secondary school, getting trade qualifications, or completing 3rd level courses.

    Probably the most practical way of helping would be to look at what qualifications/training are there, and trying to fix that pipeline, before talking about discrimination etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    Let me guess: They are always the victim, it is never their fault.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,572 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Most of them wouldn't be employable. They are not integrated into our society and I don't think they want to be integrated. So if they can barely grasp the English language and don't finish primary school how would they ever be employed?
    I don't know what the solution is, you can't help those who don't want to be helped. And maybe they're bloody right, the rat race isn't all its cracked up to be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,915 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Let's see, hmm.. who wrote the report? How are they funded? Would this benefit their continuing public funding?

    If travellers want acceptance in mainstream society, they need to start low. Take work, pay tax, show themselves to be reliable.

    Instead of claiming benefits whilst engaged in gathering money by various means, including illegal means, and not paying tax of any sort on income. Instead of discarding their rubbish in the local ditches. And abiding by public health measures wouldn't do any harm either.

    How do you help a community who often give two fingers to the rest of society? They have to help themselves, giving out state sponsored jobs is not the way.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,532 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    This is one of the unfortunate byproducts of choosing to live a life ‘on the road’: you’re never going to end up with a stable job.

    No stable job means no references.

    No references means you won’t get a job.

    Repeat and rinse if desired.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,164 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Most of them wouldn't be employable. They are not integrated into our society and I don't think they want to be integrated. So if they can barely grasp the English language and don't finish primary school how would they ever be employed?
    I don't know what the solution is, you can't help those who don't want to be helped. And maybe they're bloody right, the rat race isn't all its cracked up to be.

    Not employable....you are probably correct but sometimes for good reasons that is not prejudice. For comparison. I would like to see employment stats for Irish non-traveller individuals with no education past primary school. Add to that, new-irish with equally no education and get those employment stats. I don't think you would be too surprised that the sets of data would compare quite well with each other.

    The education system is not for everyone. Some cannot cope with it and end up on the edges of society or employment in very poor paying jobs. But I don't think any other cohort of people have as big a non-engagement in education than the travellers. The question is why? Is it caused by attitudes within the traveller community or caused by the system. I know which one the traveller community will blame and which one every one else will blame.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Peintre Celebre


    One quite pertinent issue that isn't addressed is the percentage of travellers that want to be employed. Not too high I'd imagine


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Travellers should prioritise finishing school and gaining actual qualifications for a start, then they can become viable candidates for employment. Dropping out and feeling sorry for oneself doesn't open any doors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    touts wrote: »
    There is a strong work culture among Travellers. The problem is there isn't a strong culture of taxable employment.

    They have a strong work from home culture also


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    hawley wrote: »
    ...It says employment for members of the community should be a "named focus" and it calls for the creation of a work experience programme and internships for Travellers in the public sector.

    There was a previous programme like this in the Civil Service about 15 years ago- I don't know what the outcome of it was.

    But what I will say is as part of that programme I worked one to one with travellers in my section for several months each and I found them all very keen to learn, hardworking, and committed to getting on and doing well.

    The biggest thing standing in their way was they were genuinely nervous they would not be accepted by the other staff. But once they got past that, they settled in fine and worked very well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,164 ✭✭✭Damien360


    One quite pertinent issue that isn't addressed is the percentage of travellers that want to be employed. Not too high I'd imagine

    If my town is anything to go by, that's not true at all. A few are drug dealers (not work) but most are roofers, paving etc. During the boom these guys were on building sites doing the gutters. I see the vans on the road first thing in the morning without fail, off to work. Now how much of that is taxable is another question.


  • Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭batman75


    It is up to travellers to conclusively tackle the perception of thieving amongst their numbers. Yes settled people rob too but their is a perception amongst the general public that travellers are not worthy of being trusted. For a community of people who have high unemployment in their ranks they seem to be well able to amass wealth. This unexplained wealth is another source of understandable suspicion amongst the general public.

    So instead of crying about injustice and discrimination try tackling the very reasons for suspicion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭mohawk


    Many of us come from families where finishing secondary school and then going on to either college, a trade or some further training is expected of us. No ifs or buts. That is what is expected and that is what you do. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many growing up in traveller communities. School drop out is still a big issue.

    Like other posters above have said. When controlling for education are they doing better or worse then others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,441 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It’s very difficult to integrate such a separate culture when they want to pick and choose which norms of society suits them.

    Social welfare, yes they seem comfortable with that part of being in society.
    Social responsibility, no, not enough traveller families are embracing their social responsibilities to the rest of society.

    You can’t be half in and half out of society and expect to be accepted and respected, I say this for settled people too where were in places were seeing generational unemployment as the lifestyle of preference. There’s only so much give in society without some return, that’s where resentment grows.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    80% not working, I want to know what accounts for the other 20% it's certainly not in employment


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,017 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    thanks OP

    I needed a good laugh this afternoon


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    I can believe that 80% are in receipt of job seekers but i dont think that means that 80% are not working.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0413/1209538-traveller-employment/

    The unironic use of the word "microaggressions" quoted in that article tells you all you need to know.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭millb


    Travellers have certain skill sets and historical "employment" activities which should be the focus of some schemes. For example if each "County Development" agency took on a particular "trade or type of employment" then they could generate a productive activity following the concepts of business development and thereby employ / educate / develop the skills and ethos of responsible business.

    EG say Clare, Cork, Mayo and Carlow had animal breeding, wildlife management and animal welfare orientated operations - and if Kildare, Louth and Longford had horse industry apprentices and SMEs then that could be a benefit.

    Recycling and metalwork could also be a win - win if for example, different niches were approached and facilitated with appropriate plant or technology. Say niche operations for example: mattress recycling; wood processing; metal recovery, caravan building & repair.

    Culture and entertainment could be other niches - say a new "Wanderly Waggon" type experience or programme.

    The problem is that "values" are placed on the quick buck, expediency, win-loose, "dodge and avoid" behaviors.

    Government generally couldn't adapt or progress these schemes as they rely on leadership and consensus / buy in, flexibility and creative agility which is not a strong point of administration or taxpayer wishes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭conorhal


    mohawk wrote: »
    Many of us come from families where finishing secondary school and then going on to either college, a trade or some further training is expected of us. No ifs or buts. That is what is expected and that is what you do. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many growing up in traveller communities. School drop out is still a big issue.

    Like other posters above have said. When controlling for education are they doing better or worse then others.


    The top three routes out of poverty are:
    1)Education
    2)Education
    and
    3)Education


    This fatuous report seems more interest in creating a host of QUANGOs and 'social programmes' destined to fail because there is no focus on fixing the root of the problem.

    Like many programmes designed by the well to do chattering middle classes, they always focus on 'visibility' rather then substance.


    You have to start with traveller kids in primary school and work from there, there's no quick fixes, no shortcuts and no quota you can put in place that does anything other then set them up for failure if you're ignoring the basics that need to be in place for them to succeed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭millb


    Damien360 wrote: »
    If my town is anything to go by, that's not true at all. A few are drug dealers (not work) but most are roofers, paving etc. During the boom these guys were on building sites doing the gutters. I see the vans on the road first thing in the morning without fail, off to work. Now how much of that is taxable is another question.

    That is a good example of some progress - they can take on main-stream activities once some role-models, skills and pathways to success can be established.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,325 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    80% travellers unemployed.
    I'd guess 80% also have very new vans and cars.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Fake Scores


    I wonder what the ratio of traveller to settled was in the work force that compiled this study?

    And also in the 'St Stephen's Green' Trust activities in general?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,834 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    This whole "all disparities are discrimination" nonsense really needs to be nipped in the bud. It gives a license to activists to claim that any disparity is because of discrimination, with no need for proof. Of course it only goes one way too. If the disparity goes against a non protected group, then it will be ignored, as it is nothing but an inconvenience to them.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭Batattackrat


    Why do they need to work when they have social welfare and "alternative income".

    Also marrying your relatives is going to significantly lower your IQ I'd imagine.

    Threadbanned


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Is there going to be anything done about the big big issue coming with the Roma gypsies.

    I'm seeing so many now that I met that were a child, still a child by the way but now with children of their own, at the weekend I seen 12 going to board a 15 bus.... Theses were all kids, with their own kids.

    Cab needs to come down hard as does revenue and social services....

    These kids aren't in school when they should be, of course last ages school were out but still.


    Giving them ethnic status was a huge huge mistake and we will pay dearly for that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Pussyhands wrote: »
    They have a strong work from home culture also

    Do a lot of work in other peoples homes too, mostly with the elderly.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,577 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I can believe that 80% are in receipt of job seekers but i dont think that means that 80% are not working.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0413/1209538-traveller-employment/

    The unironic use of the word "microaggressions" quoted in that article tells you all you need to know.

    Yes that part stands out...
    Ms Quilligan said changing such attitudes will involve significant cultural shifts.

    "As the report points out, unfortunately, micro-aggressions in the form of workplace conversations that are hostile or negative about Travellers are a common and difficult experience for many.," she added.

    "Changing this culture is crucial and will require action by employers and trade unions - for example line managers need to challenge unacceptable behaviour by other employees towards Travellers."

    Yep, it's everyone else who is at fault for their perception of Travellers. The Travellers themselves bear no responsibility for this or ownership in changing it, they're the victims.

    Quite!


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