Odd neighbour

Call me Al · 04-06-2021 10:11am

The DayDream wrote: »

I can guarantee he is not so universally beloved as it may seem - just that the other folks haven't had to be in such close proximity for long stretches and can more easily wave away concerns, or they felt pressure to not make an issue because of the same reasons you have described.

He's 100% behaved inappropriately before and he has gotten away with it, for way too long.

Don't sell your house because of him! That's your house you worked hard to get and honestly these creeps are just like any other bully - usually cowards who will scurry off as soon as you stand up to them.

I'm not going to say you should do something you don't feel comfortable doing or that you think would put you in danger, but honestly I would just be telling him calmly but firmly to foxtrot oscar any time he came near, and if he persisted just give him the bollocking of a lifetime.

The neighbours aren't going to come and surround your house with pitchforks because you fall out with this man. They might not jump to your side straight away but a single older man making a younger woman uncomfortable -it's very difficult for the man to come off looking the better in these situations, especially if people find out about things he's done and said.

I have two sisters, one is shy and the other is a complete wagon. The shy one had a creepy neighbour annoying her and kept it to herself for a while not wanting to make trouble in the neighborhood as she was new there. Well one day the wagon came over the shy one gaff, a few glasses of wine were had and the neighbour appeared in his garden. A graphic description of scrotal amputation was provided to the neighbour by the visiting sister if he didnt leave the other girl alone and he never tried to interact with her again.

I think it scared him more than a man would, so you don't need a big burly man to scare him off. In fact that can make you look worse - he can then counter your claims of intimidation and harassment with claims of his own. But if a woman rears up on a man he nearly has to back down.

Do you know any woman that are the 'take no shíte' type that could help you? I would ring my sister for ya but she's heavily pregnant at the moment so the only fella she'll be intimidating for the next while is the husband.

I've been put in the unfortunate position where I had to get cross with a guy who was supposed to be managing repair work on our new house (they'd left a complete mess behind them doing huge repair work after the render started falling off). Landscaped garden destroyed, new shed covered in render, missing side gate, blocked sewer drains I'd seen them pour mix into. Disaster. He asked me who did I think I was asking to have my house put back the way it had been after they'd left and then complaining when they didn't bother to comeback as promised and finish the job.
I was livid with how he thought he could speak to me in my own house.
I could not believe the crap he came out with. Let me tell you did I come out with my two barrels blazing.

Never said a word when my 6ft4 husband was there of course.
Nice as pie.
Just me.
After that there's no Ms Nicey Call me Al when it comes to dealing with a$$hole men who think they can intimidate me because I'm female and small.

Sometimes guys think they can get their way by intimidation or bullying and an expectation that a woman will not want to cause a scene or upset anyone, even when your instinct tells you that you're in the right and sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.
It can all be quite passive aggressive, not illegal of course, but there nonetheless.
I learned a lesson that day.

TP_CM · 04-06-2021 10:36am

leggo wrote: »

See your point only makes sense if you take it from the perspective: “Could you get a criminal conviction based on the evidence presented so far?” This is totally missing the mark of what the situation is and the advice being given.

People aren’t telling her to contact the Gardai for the sake of getting him thrown in jail or moved out of his home. The purpose of logging it with the Gardai is that he may have form for this (these types usually do and the one person the OP has confided in has experienced similar) behaviour and they could decide that a quick word with him could nip everything in the bud, which is all the OP wants. At worst, it builds a case for more formal action if she makes a complaint, then every time he does something else logs it, because these situations can escalate quite quickly and it’s easier to act if needed if there’s already a framework established and a pattern of complaints officially logged.

OP just wants the behaviour to stop. Reporting it to the Gardai is doing something proactive that could help bring about that end result quicker than the counterpoint of “Do nothing because he hasn’t used bad language” that’s being presented, bafflingly.

There are multiple posts, quoting the legal textbook, insinuating that the creepy old man is a criminal, or "we don't know he's not a criminal". We can't just go around casually calling someone a criminal. And that doesn't mean I'm on his side, and it doesn't mean I think (or anyone thinks) that going to the Gardaí is therefore pointless. I don't believe anyone actually said that going to the Gardaí is a bad idea.

What they are saying is to do as much as you can before going to the Gardaí because they'll take it a lot more seriously than if you've done nothing at all. Or do both. But at least with a fence, she can tell the Gardaí that there is an old man climbing it and looking into her property. It carries a lot more weight than someone standing on a public road (or a private piece of property they have full access to) and looking at their house.

wildwillow · 04-06-2021 11:17am

The OP is being told that it is her fault that he is bothering her.

She should install CCTV, hedges etc. While this is good advice and practice it should not be necessary.

I wonder if the other houses require such actions to protect their privacy.

He is a nuisance and preventing her enjoyment of her property.

His actions would make me feel vunerable.

How many times do we hear that in hindsight people might have taken more notice.

Jequ0n · 04-06-2021 6:12pm

wildwillow wrote: »

The OP is being told that it is her fault that he is bothering her.

She should install CCTV, hedges etc. While this is good advice and practice it should not be necessary.

I wonder if the other houses require such actions to protect their privacy.

He is a nuisance and preventing her enjoyment of her property.

His actions would make me feel vunerable.

How many times do we hear that in hindsight people might have taken more notice.

I don’t think anyone is trying to tell the OP that it’s her fault? There is just some disagreement on some suggestions offered (contacting the police) because it might actually put more stress on the OP as a result (neighbours gossiping etc).

The man is highly annoying and if the OP feels unnerved then it’s understandable. This is a more recent development though as she initially expressed annoyance rather than fear.

Blocking his view onto her property needs to happen either way. The Op can decide if she wants to involve the police but she does not seem to be very fond of confrontations.

JustAThought · 04-06-2021 11:31pm

riclad wrote: »

His behavior is odd , creepy , and rude , nothing he has done is illegal.
He has not used bad language or insulted anyone.
Maybe simply putting up a fence will solve the problem
and allow you to enjoy your garden in peace.
....

Y - you’re dead right - maybe its a bit like the bully at school - they know exactly what to do and how to do it, to keep on the right side of the rules. Same with criminal classes - always just within the grey lines.

As you say - he HAS committed no crime. And unless the OP reports it, it’ll continue to go unremarked. Of course if the guy has any back history them it might go against him. That would be useful for the OP.

Sad part is the solutions are relatively straightforward - fence, cctv, report.

Sadder part IS that probably the gaurds will show little if any interest - but logging it is worthwhile. You can be sure if it was a gaurds sister or mother they probably would be on it like a hot snot. But as the OP hasn’t logged a complaint (yet) we don’t know.

Can someone make a complaint of coercive control against a neighbour? Does anyone know? Does this fall under that or is ‘just’ being a nuisance/ antisocial behaviour?

Darc19 · 04-06-2021 11:45pm

Get a couple of CCTV cameras, put them up on the front and back wall pointing just onto your property.

No system needed, just the cameras (about €40 each)

Tell him that people said someone was looking in your windows and the gardai advised you to install CCTV.

That might just get him to stop the creeping.

leggo · 05-06-2021 1:27am

TP_CM wrote: »

We can't just go around casually calling someone a criminal.

Sorry but what are you going on about here? It's absolutely relevant to look at actions that are borderline illegal and quote the law to see if they cross that line to examine what can and can't be done. You're acting like someone's reputation is being dragged through the mud. Newsflash: he's unidentifiable! It doesn't matter what's said about him because nobody knows who he is!

Gardai may ask if the OP has done anything to prevent it. Or they may hear that the village creep has struck again and go down and have a chat because they know that calms him down for a while at least. You have no way of knowing how the individual Garda she'll speak to will react. You've no idea of the context, weight or reputation that this guy brings with him because even the OP doesn't fully since she's only learning there are others who've dealt with similar from him since this thread has begun.

Again, people's issues with advice given seem in total bad faith and don't hold up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny here. If you find yourself offended by someone being called criminally creepy, you need to figure out why that is in your own time because there's a real live issue ongoing here that isn't helped by the "You can't be saying that" obstructive nonsense that, spade a spade, comes from overly-sensitive lads every time the word 'creepy' is uttered. Give it a rest.

qwerty13 · 05-06-2021 9:50am

While I’m absolutely of the view that the OP should take every avenue possible about protecting herself (fence, locked gate, cameras, a ‘Ring’ doorbell), she shouldn’t have to do that - but it serves a few purposes: 1) should make her feel safer 2) will probably (I hope) deter the neighbourhood creep 3) will show Gardai that she has taken all reasonable actions, if she needs/wants to report Mr Creep

It really really annoys me that there appears to be a view that Mr Creep hasn’t done anything illegal. To people who say that, have you ever been shouted at from a car, especially when walking alone / late / in fitness gear? Told to cheer up and that if you smiled more you’d look much prettier? Closely followed by a guy? A man sitting right beside you when a bus or DART carriage is mostly free? A guy sitting on the outside seat on a bus/train, and leaning his leg over on to you - and making it difficult for you to get by him without touching him. Had someone stand way way too close to you in a queue, and start putting their hand on your back to advance the queue? And that’s the tip of the iceberg/the casual extent of what happens to almost every woman at some stage. Often a few times a week. None of this is illegal. But it’s sleazy, creepy, unwanted, intimidating, nasty, upsetting, concerning for personal safety, and makes you change the patterns of your day-to-day life.

I do know that women can be inappropriate too, but the general difference in physicality, combined with history, means that women know and have learnt for generations that a guy who might not be doing anything illegal (but is being creepy and makes them feel very uneasy) is bad news.

ShaShaBear · 05-06-2021 9:09pm

Here's the thing about criminals. They have to be caught. How do they get caught? By being caught in the act or reported.
There are child rapists, assaulters, burglars, animal abusers, murderers, drug dealers, kidnappers and all-round bad people being "neighbours" to people all over the country, and indeed the world.

When a van pulls into your driveway and two men get out, have a look around your garden and then knock your door and ask if you need your driveway power-washed, do you report this suspicious behaviour, or do you operate under the principle of these people not being criminals?

Women should not have to wait until they have physical proof of dangerous men.

Darc19 · 05-06-2021 9:19pm

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Here's the thing about criminals. They have to be caught. How do they get caught? By being caught in the act or reported.
There are child rapists, assaulters, burglars, animal abusers, murderers, drug dealers, kidnappers and all-round bad people being "neighbours" to people all over the country, and indeed the world.

When a van pulls into your driveway and two men get out, have a look around your garden and then knock your door and ask if you need your driveway power-washed, do you report this suspicious behaviour, or do you operate under the principle of these people not being criminals?

Women should not have to wait until they have physical proof of dangerous men.

Sorry, but that is just ridiculous. And thankfully the op doesn't have your weird train of thought.

Someone call to your door and asking if you want a driveway cleaned - and you immediately want the gardai to arrest them for a criminal act?

Seriously?

B.A._Baracus · 06-06-2021 3:30am

Op,
Tell him to F-off. Look, you wouldn't be the first or the last neighbor to fall out.

ShaShaBear · 06-06-2021 8:17am

Darc19 wrote: »

Sorry, but that is just ridiculous. And thankfully the op doesn't have your weird train of thought.

Someone call to your door and asking if you want a driveway cleaned - and you immediately want the gardai to arrest them for a criminal act?

Seriously?

The rest of what I said? About scoping out your garden before the door is knocked? The guards themselves put out social media posts regularly urging people to report these kinds of "suspicious" interactions with people. People report suspicious activity every day - I'm using this as one of the most common tropes and because it is similar in that it involves strangers doing something completely legal that arouses suspicion in vulnerable/frightened people because of its link to illegal activity.

I'm more pleased that the OP doesn't appear to share the train of thought with people who thinks she should just ignore the matter and pray it doesn't get worse.

leggo · 06-06-2021 2:08pm

The truth is, and it’s worth calling out, whenever the word ‘creepy’ is mentioned on boards there’s a massive onset of defensiveness that instantly sets in.

If your man was breaking into OP’s house and staring at her while she slept, you’d still see lads coming on here suggesting a “wait and see” approach was best rather than holding a creepy person responsible for their behaviour.

antix80 · 06-06-2021 2:42pm

leggo wrote: »

If your man was breaking into OP’s house and staring at her while she slept, .

What's the point of this?

leggo · 06-06-2021 3:05pm

leggo wrote: »

you’d still see lads coming on here suggesting a “wait and see” approach was best rather than holding a creepy person responsible for their behaviour.

That was. You just needed to continue reading.

Jequ0n · 06-06-2021 9:13pm

Somehow this thread has gone completely off the rails.

Mad_maxx · 09-06-2021 5:56pm

OP , perhaps bear in mind that the property market has gotten incredibly strong this past year , if you are really unhappy where you are , just sell , if you are willing to make compromises in some areas , chances are you will be able to afford a decent replacement elsewhere

the guy living next door sounds like an awful pest but he is old and therefore the guards might be reluctant to deal with matters decisively or certainly speedily

Himnydownunder · 10-06-2021 2:34pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

OP , perhaps bear in mind that the property market has gotten incredibly strong this past year , if you are really unhappy where you are , just sell , if you are willing to make compromises in some areas , chances are you will be able to afford a decent replacement elsewhere

the guy living next door sounds like an awful pest but he is old and therefore the guards might be reluctant to deal with matters decisively or certainly speedily

Rent it out to female martial artists for the year and buy another place.

LegacyUser · 10-06-2021 5:32pm

Hi OP here,

Today when I was home from work he was in the next door neighbours garden doing some 'gardening' at the time that I would be arriving back from work.

I just drove off and parked up elsewhere for a while.
I spoke to the contractor re my fence, he said with shortage of materials at moment, it could be at least a month before he can do the fence.

Hannibal_Smith · 10-06-2021 6:56pm

A month isn't that long a wait OP. That's great. Though I'm sure you'd like it done sooner at least you're on the road to more privacy.

Himnydownunder · 10-06-2021 6:58pm

Oddneighbour wrote: »

Hi OP here,

Today when I was home from work he was in the next door neighbours garden doing some 'gardening' at the time that I would be arriving back from work.

I just drove off and parked up elsewhere for a while.
I spoke to the contractor re my fence, he said with shortage of materials at moment, it could be at least a month before he can do the fence.

Maybe it’s easier to start renting out the place in say 3 weeks time and try and find a new place to buy. All of this isn’t good for your mental health. I don’t think any amount of fencing or cameras will put your mind at ease. He really has got under your skin.

Jequ0n · 10-06-2021 8:31pm

I concur that a month is not a long time considering how long you had toyed wir the idea.

Regarding your account of today’s events: it’s a warm day and he was helping out neighbours: be careful not to go down the paranoia route now. Not every single thing he does will be centred around you.

Himnydownunder · 10-06-2021 10:36pm

Jequ0n wrote: »

I concur that a month is not a long time considering how long you had toyed wir the idea.

Regarding your account of today’s events: it’s a warm day and he was helping out neighbours: be careful not to go down the paranoia route now. Not every single thing he does will be centred around you.

He clearly is a weed/ creep, but I can’t help but wonder if the OP has issues of her own? Maybe we are not getting the full picture here?

o1s1n · 10-06-2021 10:46pm

Himnydownunder wrote: »

He clearly is a weed/ creep, but I can’t help but wonder if the OP has issues of her own? Maybe we are not getting the full picture here?

Unfortunately in these situations when people are at a heightened state of alert, they can also interpret coincidences and chance acts as being premeditated.

I've lived in some house shares that went south and tiny things would be perceived as slights against the other person, when in reality probably 60-70% of them weren't.

This neighbour definitely sounds like a creep but I'd imagine the OP is now in a state where every time she sees him around it feels premeditated, even if just coincidental.

riclad · 11-06-2021 1:38am

I don't know why people are talking about going to the Gardaí, he's a creepy old man, he's not a criminal. And he's also a friend of your neighbour he has not broken the law

You should ignore him.
He, ll lose interest.
In a month you, ll have a fence and you, ll be able to enjoy your garden

riclad · 11-06-2021 1:42am

[
To be clear he is not living next door he is a friend of your
neighbour who seems to have nothing to do but hang around

The DayDream · 11-06-2021 5:04am

riclad wrote: »

[
To be clear he is not living next door he is a friend of your
neighbour who seems to have nothing to do but hang around

Yes, I think it should be noted if anyone is unclear and as has been suggested, is under the impression this is all in OPs head, the dude is basically at or around her house all the time and he doesn't live next door.

Read the first post it's like the start of a creepy film. And with the comments... He's there on purpose. I predict this goodwill gardening will not be the last chores he volunteers for this neighbor now the weather is good.

OP I'm unable to afford a house due to the housing crisis, are you in a desirable area? Or if you want to rent a room for a good price I'll keep the creep away, I don't care about how well liked the fker is by the yokels in the parish.

Meeoow · 11-06-2021 7:46am

OP, would you consider renting out a room in your house? A bit of company might help you, and creepy hole couldn't be as obvious if there was someone else in the house.

Hannibal_Smith · 11-06-2021 1:40pm

I always assumed this was your next door neighbour OP, I never realised that he lives some where else on the road and still manages to hang around outside your property and appear as soon as you do. How does he manage to look in at the back?

Can I ask whether the questions about where you sleep etc started happening after you declined his help re bins etc?

This fella has dictated and set the boundaries, not only with you but with everyone in that neighbourhood. It's odd that he'd be getting on so well with a neighbour that he'd be doing their gardening. I'd lay a bet he's overstepping the mark with them, but they're too afraid to say anything because they think he's so popular. He's got himself a perfect set up, where he's dumping rubbish in someone else's garden and in other people's bins and and illegally burning rubbish in his own garden and no one thinks twice to tell him they're scummy things to be doing. He's ruling the roost.

You've tried all the polite ways over the years you've lived there and rejected his attempts to set the same boundaries with you. Good for you. If others have stopped talking to you on the road, let them away - you're not in the wrong here. The nerve of him.

It's hard to say what to do, because ideally the next time you see him looking into the back of your house I'd love you to fling open the window and shout at him. But at the same time, I don't want you to make things worse for yourself. The problem with people like him is that even though he's totally in the wrong, they make you feel you're the person doing something wrong if you dare to address it head on!

With that in mind - for now, if he is in next doors garden the next time you come home, don't drive away. I bet you feel like you have to make a dash from the car to the house? Don't do that either. Take your time to get your stuff together and saunter into your house. Blank him. He's removed any entitlement to neighbourly politeness so don't feel obliged to give him any.

Order the CCTV and the fence and in the meantime keep a note of all that's happening and everything that continues to happen. See what you gather on the Cctv and then talk to the Gardai, bring whatever relevant footage you have and your diary. Even if they can't do anything, ask them to take a note or record of what you're saying. Then get back to enjoying your garden and your property, keeping a note of all his behaviour towards you and if you notice it escalating or intensifying, go back to the Gardai and ask what they can do, or what you should do.

Continue to blank him. He has set the need for these boundaries, not you.

You are entitled to privacy in your own home and garden. It's not much to ask to be able to come and go from your property without some neighbour coming up to you and asking where you sleep or peering into your property while you enjoy your garden. I would hate to see you at a loss financially or otherwise by having to move because of this guy. You've done nothing wrong.

Jeff2 · 11-06-2021 2:29pm

He lives nextdoor and calls into the neighbour on the other side.

Odd neighbour

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