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Rail line to Adare for Ryder Cup

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Comments

  • #62
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Veering off topic I know, but.......

    Killarney is 60 miles and hour from Adare, Limerick is 10 miles and 10 minutes from Adare. There are 250K visitors expected. Most won't be staying at 4 and 5 star hotels. If you honestly think that every hotel room in Limerick won't be booked out during that week, then you're deluded. And not just Limerick, but there won't be a hotel room available in Clare either.

    Yes I'm sure due to lack of availability close to the venue places like Killarney will do very well, but the majority of visitors will either start their journeys in Limerick or pass through Limerick to get to Adare.

    It’s a 3 day event and the most daily tickets ever sold was in France at 51k. I know there may be a lot of non-attending family/spouses but I have no idea where you get 250k from. Irrespective, a rail line for a one-off event is not just pie in the sky, it’s grounds for committal to an institution!


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Last Stop wrote: »
    I’m well aware of the project appraisal process.
    However I do not agree with your assertion along with others on here that this is not possible due to the timeframe.
    It’s 7 years away, it’s 15km of disused railway line. You’d practically build a metro line in that time.
    If we want a breakdown of the time frame, I’d suggest:
    12-18 months design including a public consultation period. (Remember there is no route selection required here as the route is fixed)
    12 months with An Bord Pleanala
    2 years construction.

    That gives you a time frame of 4-4.5 years. Even adding in the delay in getting it through cabinet and you can defo get this done within the time frame.

    You have also forgotten to mention that certain projects can be fast tracked up the list (for a variety of reasons) if the political will is there. The Adare road bypass is a perfect example of this. No one is suggesting that that won’t be completed on time despite it being a far more difficult project in terms of CPO required etc.

    Your not wrong, but

    #1 there is no will to get it done and

    #2 more importantly, there are far higher priorities than this

    #3 the CBA on this would be abysmal


  • #64
    webwayz
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭webwayz


    I cant see it happening. The idea of having a Limerick Urban Rail or even tram System has obstacles, such as the dead-end nature of Limerick Station, also the northern route of the ennis line has limited public transport catchment area, and wouldnt serve UL. So many of these wouldnt have the critical mass to justify it.
    If there was serious commitment you could argue of foynes to Limerick curving the line into the city, and similarly running the railway line to Shannon Airport would serve the city area. But the cheap and easy option is build roads and let people use cars and buses.


  • #65
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    webwayz wrote: »
    I cant see it happening. The idea of having a Limerick Urban Rail or even tram System has obstacles, such as the dead-end nature of Limerick Station, also the northern route of the ennis line has limited public transport catchment area, and wouldnt serve UL. So many of these wouldnt have the critical mass to justify it.

    A central terminal station is common for commuter rail in mall cities all over Europe. It's not a problem.
    webwayz wrote: »
    If there was serious commitment you could argue of foynes to Limerick curving the line into the city, and similarly running the railway line to Shannon Airport would serve the city area. But the cheap and easy option is build roads and let people use cars and buses.
    That policy has been an expensive failure to date


  • #66
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    The idea certainly has merit and makes a hell of a lot more sense than something as moronic as the 'Western Rail Corridor' between Tuam and Collooney being reopened.


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  • #67
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    MrAbyss wrote: »
    The idea certainly has merit and makes a hell of a lot more sense than something as moronic as the 'Western Rail Corridor' between Tuam and Collooney being reopened.


    It doesn't have to be either one or the other it can be both. And, it's not Tuam/Collooney that is being fought over, it's Athenry/Claremorris. Most realists know that Claremorris/Collooney is only a trainspotters wet dream.

    ****



  • #68
    gjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭gjim


    MrAbyss wrote: »
    The idea certainly has merit and makes a hell of a lot more sense than something as moronic as the 'Western Rail Corridor' between Tuam and Collooney being reopened.

    Meh - it doesn't make a whole of sense except, as you say, in comparison with something moronic.

    There's an hourly BE service that covers the same route already that takes just 25 minutes.

    I don't see rail doing it much faster despite the large capital investment required.

    And the route is all single track so even theoretical capacity is severely limited (max 2 or 3 trains per hour to cover both directions) compared to using buses where it's possible to put on more vehicles to scale up and down to meet demand.

    I guess many of us here are rail enthusiasts but in some contexts, buses simply make more sense.


  • #69
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,703 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    gjim wrote: »
    I guess many of us here are rail enthusiasts but in some contexts, buses simply make more sense.
    Yes and that is particularly true of the N5 and N22 projects recently signed off on. Idiots saying that the money should be spent on public transport, completely ignoring the fact that roads can and do accommodate buses! Some people seem to think if it doesn't run on tracks then it isn't public transport.


  • #70
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Yes and that is particularly true of the N5 and N22 projects recently signed off on. Idiots saying that the money should be spent on public transport, completely ignoring the fact that roads can and do accommodate buses! Some people seem to think if it doesn't run on tracks then it isn't public transport.

    Some people seem to think that buses are the cheap answer to public transport and ignore the fact that not only do they have to fight for road space with other traffic but will never attract the bulk of motorists out of their vehicles.

    ****



  • #71
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Some people seem to think that buses are the cheap answer to public transport and ignore the fact that not only do they have to fight for road space with other traffic but will never attract the bulk of motorists out of their vehicles.


    Not only that, but busses last maybe 5-8 years, so that "cheaper" alteranative just costs more and more, and guess what spending is the first to go when there's a downturn.


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  • #72
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    Not only that, but busses last maybe 5-8 years, so that "cheaper" alteranative just costs more and more, and guess what spending is the first to go when there's a downturn.

    Dublin Bus last 14 years and they are sold on for a couple years more usage beyond that.

    Buses and coaches are VASTLY cheaper then trains.

    Trains of course have their place, but they are WAY more expensive then buses/coach.
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Some people seem to think that buses are the cheap answer to public transport and ignore the fact that not only do they have to fight for road space with other traffic but will never attract the bulk of motorists out of their vehicles.

    Neither will trains on rural Victorian lines only running a few times a day and taking twice as long as a car/bus.

    Trains into and around dense cities are absolutely a must. But trains trundling along rural lines really don't make any sense at all. They have no place in our modern world with motorways, etc.


  • #73
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    In a country where the current commuter trains are at wedge capacity , Dart Expansion has been delayed for 30 years , as has numerous other high demand train, cycling and bus projects around the country especially Cork and Galway. How anyone could consider the Adare line a good idea is beyond me.


  • #74
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Yes and that is particularly true of the N5 and N22 projects recently signed off on. Idiots saying that the money should be spent on public transport, completely ignoring the fact that roads can and do accommodate buses! Some people seem to think if it doesn't run on tracks then it isn't public transport.

    I think the anger is over the massive spend on roads compared to negligible spend on public transport(buses included) on a national level. Take the budget this year for example. There have been no public transport projects. Lots of roads being built though. We're going to spend x amount bypassing the village of ballyvourney but the same amount could make Cork City and a bus and bike mecca.


  • #75
    webwayz
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭webwayz


    Just to bring back to the original suggestion on this thread.
    I do think events such as the Ryder Cup can be used to have a legacy of some infrastructure, the Nass Dual Carriage way was upgraded for the event in the K-club. Surely an upgrade of this railway line should be considered, rather than just the building of a by-pass.
    As was Portrush Railway Station invested in for the Open Championship.


  • #76
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    webwayz wrote: »
    Just to bring back to the original suggestion on this thread.
    I do think events such as the Ryder Cup can be used to have a legacy of some infrastructure, the Nass Dual Carriage way was upgraded for the event in the K-club. Surely an upgrade of this railway line should be considered, rather than just the building of a by-pass.
    As was Portrush Railway Station invested in for the Open Championship.

    Ok here the lists of projects to be considered in no particular order

    Metro Link
    Rolling stock for the current rail network
    Dart Expansion
    Dart Underground
    Luas Expansion Dublin
    Luas Cork
    Luas Galway
    Luas Limerick
    Cork Commuter rail improvements
    Bus Connects Dublin
    Bus Connects Waterford
    Bus Connects Cork
    Bus Connects Galway
    Cycling Dublin
    Cycling Cork
    Cycling Galway
    Cycling Limerick
    Cycling every major town in Ireland
    Quad tracking the Dublin coast line
    Bypassing the Greystones tunnel
    .....
    ......
    ........ etc

    And then maybe the Adare line


  • #77
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Nenagh line 2.0 - €761 per passenger of a subsidy......


  • #78
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    Nenagh line 2.0 - €761 per passenger of a subsidy......

    Good man - regurgitate the old CIE claptrap!

    ****



  • #79
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,027 ✭✭✭prunudo


    webwayz wrote: »
    Just to bring back to the original suggestion on this thread.
    I do think events such as the Ryder Cup can be used to have a legacy of some infrastructure, the Nass Dual Carriage way was upgraded for the event in the K-club. Surely an upgrade of this railway line should be considered, rather than just the building of a by-pass.
    As was Portrush Railway Station invested in for the Open Championship.

    No that was an awful legacy, they rushed through the widening. Rather than planning a proper new motorway to link up with m50 at jn8 they rushed through the widening with countless private entrance and small roads. Not to mention dumping it onto Newlands cross and then onto the Red cow for more traffic carnage.


  • #80
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Good man - regurgitate the old CIE claptrap!

    Do you want to rebut the "CIE claptrap"? Is it not operating at a ridiculous subvention?


  • #81
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Do you want to rebut the "CIE claptrap"? Is it not operating at a ridiculous subvention?


    The figure per passenger seems to grow ever time it is mentioned and, in any event, who do you think is responsible for the situation?

    ****



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  • #82
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Ok here the lists of projects to be considered in no particular order
    And then maybe the Adare line

    I don’t think you quite grasp the concept of “in no particular order”


  • #83
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Considering the bypass is going to be right on top of it, there's no way it wouldn't delay that.

    Removing the traffic on that road would probably do more good for Adare than anything else.


  • #84
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Do you want to rebut the "CIE claptrap"? Is it not operating at a ridiculous subvention?

    I'd bet you anything the patronage on the Limerick-Nenagh-Ballybrophy line would be over 600 people a day if the journey time from Limerick to Ballybrophy via Nenagh was about 1 hour, and if the frequency was 8 trains daily in both directions.
    The cost per passenger, I'm certain, would plummet too.


  • #85
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    webwayz wrote: »
    Just to bring back to the original suggestion on this thread.
    I do think events such as the Ryder Cup can be used to have a legacy of some infrastructure, the Nass Dual Carriage way was upgraded for the event in the K-club. Surely an upgrade of this railway line should be considered, rather than just the building of a by-pass.
    As was Portrush Railway Station invested in for the Open Championship.

    Portrush Railway Station Building was upgraded as it was already active, and serves a town of 8,000 people. This is in no way comparable to a line that is not active or in use.


  • #86
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    The figure per passenger seems to grow ever time it is mentioned and, in any event, who do you think is responsible for the situation?

    Who is responsible? Probably the NTA who thought this was a good idea and agreed to this stupid, pointless line.


  • #87
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    Who is responsible? Probably the NTA who thought this was a good idea and agreed to this stupid, pointless line.


    We're talking about the Ballybrophy/Limerick line not the so called WRC.

    ****



  • #88
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    We're talking about the Ballybrophy/Limerick line not the so called WRC.

    I know, but in a country where there's hundreds of thousands of people commuting into our major cities, the last thing we need is some white elephant to Adare to cost the tax payer a fortune.

    Do you really think a €700 subsidy per passenger journey is good value for money for the service?


  • #89
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    I know, but in a country where there's hundreds of thousands of people commuting into our major cities, the last thing we need is some white elephant to Adare to cost the tax payer a fortune.

    Do you really think a €700 subsidy per passenger journey is good value for money for the service?


    At least you've dropped the figure from your original €761.

    ****



  • #90
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    At least you've dropped the figure from your original €761.

    Is that your best argument?


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  • #91
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    The figure per passenger seems to grow ever time it is mentioned and, in any event, who do you think is responsible for the situation?
    ohographite wrote: »
    I'd bet you anything the patronage on the Limerick-Nenagh-Ballybrophy line would be over 600 people a day if the journey time from Limerick to Ballybrophy via Nenagh was about 1 hour, and if the frequency was 8 trains daily in both directions.
    The cost per passenger, I'm certain, would plummet too.

    The subvention is €761.60 per passenger as of two years ago.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-routes-3570004-Aug2017/

    This is an absolute scandal and you are calling for an increase in frequency to make a useless alignment less useless.


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