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Enforcing a determination order

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Comments

  • #92
    Owlet
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Owlet


    airy fairy wrote: »
    Exactly.
    We were owed €15k and tenant was ordered to pay us. Never seen it.
    But we got our property back.
    Property left in a state of disrepair, but got it back.
    It's heartbreaking.

    Did you have to use the sheriff to gain access in the end? If so how long did that take?


  • #93
    airy fairy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    Owlet wrote: »
    Did you have to use the sheriff to gain access in the end? If so how long did that take?

    No, thankfully.
    But my barrister said that if there sheriff was appointed, then it would take a matter of 48hrs or so.


  • #94
    Owlet
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Owlet


    airy fairy wrote: »
    No, thankfully.
    But my barrister said that if there sheriff was appointed, then it would take a matter of 48hrs or so.

    Thanks so much. Good to know.


  • #95
    machalla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭machalla


    Owlet wrote: »
    Thanks so much. Good to know.

    I'm curious, how much is all of this costing you financially? 7k at least in arrears if not more now. Legal fees on top of that.


  • #96
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    id be petty certain that person has probally done a legger or is in the process of doing so in coming days

    when you get access, likely to just be filthy. renting is a bad investment get out of the market


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  • #97
    Owlet
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Owlet


    Good evening

    I thought I would update this post to let you all know the good news - we regained possession of the property last week.

    This has been one of the most stressful experiences of my life. Thank you to everyone who has provided practical and moral support on this board!

    Just to recap on our experience:
    Last year - tenant pays rent late every month
    April 2018 - tenant stops paying rent completely and tells us we will have to take him to court to get the property back
    April to December - tenant does not show up to RTB hearing or appeal the decision, tenant does not show up to court or appeal decision, tenant manages to evade being served for a couple of weeks, tenant is in the house the first time we try to change locks but then we are able to gain access the following day. Also during this time the tenant confirmed he doesn't live at the property full time and only uses it as a pied a terre 'when I am in Dublin'. Another highlight was when some moron in the district court wrote down the wrong amount we were owed on the court order, then went on sick leave for two weeks, and it took me going in person to the court and bursting into tears with my baby in my arms to convince them to sort it out (which they then did within a couple of hours).
    December 2018 - Locksmith and I gain access to property late one night while tenant is out. If we weren't able to do this then we would have had to get the Sheriff involved and they told me they wouldn't be able to do it until mid January.

    So, in a case with ZERO extenuating circumstances and in which the tenant did not engage AT ALL with the legal process it has taken us 8 months to regain possession. We are at the very minimum €15k out of pocket and we will never see a penny of that.

    As expected the property is in a fairly terrible state so we will lose more money doing it up again. (Anyone know a cheap and quick carpet fitter in Dublin???)

    However, the main thing is that we did it legally and we have the keys back in our hands and that feels fabulous.

    Thank you again everyone.


  • #98
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Well done. Sorry you had to go through that. Thanks for sharing.


  • #99
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Delighted for you, Owlet. Would I be right to assume that not a single member of the Irish media has contacted you and asked to write up your story?


  • #100
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    Well done Owlet. Thankfully you have some piece of mind coming up to Christmas. Sounds like as is the situation in this country you had no support from any state support despite being forced to go through the rtb and you had to personally bring this to the courts. Sorry for your trouble.

    He should be named and shamed so no one else gets caught by him. Speaking in jest though as I know doing so would be illegal.


  • #101
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Is there no mechanism to persue the Tennant for owed rent?


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  • #102
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,605 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    Is there no mechanism to persue the Tennant for owed rent?

    There is (and for damage/repairs), and while we had one success story here years ago, it is usually throwing more money at retrieving nothing. You need to find them and they need to actually have money to get.


  • #103
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    Also Garda would likly pursue if any furniture
    Is missing


  • #104
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,608 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Would be interested in how the tenant was chosen originally.

    What was provided in terms of references. Security or otherwise.

    Might help others to avoid making similar mistakes.

    Well done on getting the place back . Nice gift for Christmas to have that off your back.


  • #105
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Owlet wrote: »
    As expected the property is in a fairly terrible state so we will lose more money doing it up again. (Anyone know a cheap and quick carpet fitter in Dublin???)
    Would you consider getting rid?


  • #106
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    Is there no mechanism to persue the Tennant for owed rent?

    Surely it would make sense to take out a judgement against them so they will have great difficulty if not make it impossible for them to get a loan in Ireland again and if they have earnings then potentially they can be sued for not just the loss but interest and distress. While the latter might all be unlikely at least you you can prevent them from living comfortably and easily without any concern of their actions.


  • #107
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭h2005


    Tenant leave anything of any value there? Doubtful I’d say but curious as to what happens in that situation?


  • #108
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Owlet what an ordeal, so sorry you went through this, absolute nightmare that there is no push back on the tenant. Wishing you well for the future, thanks for sharing.


  • #109
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Op take photos of all damage and use a newspaper in the photo. Check you inventory and write out all that is wrong or missing or damaged to cover yourselves. He could say you have his property and charge you for it. Do you have contact details if so give him a few days to collect possessions. Cover yourselves now. Take loads and loads of pictures. Get electricity and gas back in your name and change locks.
    This is very important!!!


  • #110
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Squatter wrote: »
    Would I be right to assume that not a single member of the Irish media has contacted you and asked to write up your story?

    Would probably just end up with a negative story about how an evil landlord had a house empty for 8 months.

    It is beyond crazy something that wasn't even opposed and where nobody is even living in the house takes 8 months to resolve. Except I have heard of a case where someone broke into a pensioners house and changed the locks. Took months to get them out too so this doesn't surprise me.


  • #111
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    psinno wrote: »

    Would probably just end up with a negative story about how an evil landlord had a house empty for 8 months.

    True enough, alas. And you omitted to add the tear-jerking "human interest" angle about how the heartless landlord and the RTB conspired to throw a wholly innocent parasitic tenant family onto the streets just before Christmas! :(


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  • #112
    Owlet
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Owlet


    Thanks for the replies.

    We will lodge the judgment with the high court asap. There is no point pursuing him for money now as it is clear he has none at this point in his life and of course we don't have a new address for him, but we have 12 years to pursue him and we have set reminders in our phones for every six months to check social media etc to try and hunt him down. He has a distinctive name and (when he is in work) profession so it is not hard to find him.

    We have made a comprehensive inventory and photographed every item as per our solicitor's instructions. We have been told to keep it for 21 days initially and then if he isn't in touch we give him a final 14 day grace period. Our solicitor has made it clear that if we dispose of anything we could be facing a €20k fine which is extraordinary given the value of the stuff is about €20, if that.

    He was a successful enough business man but he did lie on his references - or rather gave references for directorships of companies that were true but which did not reflect his main source of income. However we do believe the letting agent could have done more in terms of character reference checking. To recap, he paid his rent on time for 4 years, so we didn't think to really check up on him during the tenancy. Then he developed a massive drug habit - borne out of a hedonistic lifestyle associated with his job - then when his company went bust (he was fined tens of thousands for under declaring VAT), his girlfriend left him and the drug habit escalated we became the victims of his drug addled brain. The thing that removes any sympathy for his situation for me is that we actually offered to write off all the debts if he would just leave, but he refused.

    All we can hope is that one day (in the next 12 years!) he turns his life around and then we might be able to recoup a few costs, but I won't hold my breath.

    We will sell the property but it is not a saleable condition at the moment. We will never rent out a property ever again.


  • #113
    Judeloveen
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Judeloveen


    This has been very interesting for me as currently in exactly the same situation. Tenants €6500 in arrears and overholding for 6 months. I'm indecisive about whether to legally Perdue the enforcement of the determination order myself or wait for RTB (if they accept my case). I'm also in Dublin-would you mind telling me what the legal costs were and the solicitor you used?
    Many thanks and congratulations-a bitter sweet victory no doubt
    Owlet wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies.

    We will lodge the judgment with the high court asap. There is no point pursuing him for money now as it is clear he has none at this point in his life and of course we don't have a new address for him, but we have 12 years to pursue him and we have set reminders in our phones for every six months to check social media etc to try and hunt him down. He has a distinctive name and (when he is in work) profession so it is not hard to find him.

    We have made a comprehensive inventory and photographed every item as per our solicitor's instructions. We have been told to keep it for 21 days initially and then if he isn't in touch we give him a final 14 day grace period. Our solicitor has made it clear that if we dispose of anything we could be facing a €20k fine which is extraordinary given the value of the stuff is about €20, if that.

    He was a successful enough business man but he did lie on his references - or rather gave references for directorships of companies that were true but which did not reflect his main source of income. However we do believe the letting agent could have done more in terms of character reference checking. To recap, he paid his rent on time for 4 years, so we didn't think to really check up on him during the tenancy. Then he developed a massive drug habit - borne out of a hedonistic lifestyle associated with his job - then when his company went bust (he was fined tens of thousands for under declaring VAT), his girlfriend left him and the drug habit escalated we became the victims of his drug addled brain. The thing that removes any sympathy for his situation for me is that we actually offered to write off all the debts if he would just leave, but he refused.

    All we can hope is that one day (in the next 12 years!) he turns his life around and then we might be able to recoup a few costs, but I won't hold my breath.

    We will sell the property but it is not a saleable condition at the moment. We will never rent out a property ever again.


  • #114
    Owlet
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Owlet


    Hi - We decided the RTB would be far too slow and I think we could safely have added another 4 - 6 months to the process if we had gone down that route. For us it wasn't worth the stress to wait that long.

    I'm not sure I can name our solicitor publicly on the forum but what I recommend you do is ask the RTB to send you a list of their panel solicitors then email the ones in Dublin for a quote (the RTB sent me the list the same day I requested it). These are the solicitors the RTB would instruct themselves - so they are all well experienced in these types of cases - but you can also instruct them on a private basis. We went for one near our places of work as that was most practical. Most of the quotes were in the same ball park with the odd outlier. We haven't received our final bill yet but I expect it will be between 2000 - 2500 or so I think though I can't remember exactly what the quote was.

    PM me if you want more info.


  • #115
    Owlet
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Owlet


    PS good luck. It is horrible but you will get there in the end.


  • #116
    KOR101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Owlet wrote: »
    We will lodge the judgment with the high court asap.

    He was a successful enough business man......
    I would say that there is a very good chance that this person will eventually get his act together and get back into business. If he was ever successful, it's unlikely that he never will be again.


    So, get the judgement against him and bide your time.


  • #117
    flatty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭flatty


    Owlet wrote: »
    PS good luck. It is horrible but you will get there in the end.

    You seem a nice person owlet, and I wish you well. We rented a house out for a short while before selling it, and despite our tenants in general being decent kind people, it was still more trouble than it was worth to us. You are either of the landlord disposition or not, I suppose, but if you're working away and trying to get by and enjoy family life, it's an intrusion not worth the money in many cases , well, in ours at least.


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