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New leader or new Labour?

  • 06-04-2020 7:06pm
    #1
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭


    I was saddened to see Alan Kelly take leadership of Labour.
    A loss to the country. We might have had another viable alternative to FF/FG people could get behind.
    I thought picking Kelly was a mistake but the more I think about it he suits were Labour seem to be trying to head to. More Blair than Connolly.
    Well he 'loves power', hopefully they don't see any.


Comments

  • #2
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Bowie wrote: »
    I was saddened to see Alan Kelly take leadership of Labour.
    A loss to the country. We might have had another viable alternative to FF/FG people could get behind.
    I thought picking Kelly was a mistake but the more I think about it he suits were Labour seem to be trying to head to. More Blair than Connolly.
    Well he 'loves power', hopefully they don't see any.

    The Soc Dems have out flanked Labour on the new Labour space. PBP have out flanked them on the Connolly flank. Labour are irrelevant


  • #3
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    The Soc Dems have out flanked Labour on the new Labour space. PBP have out flanked them on the Connolly flank. Labour are irrelevant

    I wouldn't call the SD's new labour, maybe more social/left. Labour seem to be happy about where they've been heading ideology wise. Kelly confirms it for me. The more viable parties we have the better. Shame.


  • #4
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭crossman47


    His behaviour in the Dail yesterday screams of a man looking for attention. He served as a minister so surely he knows there will be disagreements between different agencies.


  • #5
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    Labour are dead and dont even know it.
    They have Ivana Bacik as a leading policy advisor, a woman that has stood for election on several occasions and each time has been rejected by the public. Unelectable yet she guides the Labour policy, that is something to ponder!
    They dont have the guts to clean house of the old guard and start fresh, as long as the likes of Ivana are leading lights in the party , they are unelectable


  • #6
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    da_miser wrote: »
    Labour are dead and dont even know it.
    They have Ivana Bacik as a leading policy advisor, a woman that has stood for election on several occasions and each time has been rejected by the public. Unelectable yet she guides the Labour policy, that is something to ponder!
    They dont have the guts to clean house of the old guard and start fresh, as long as the likes of Ivana are leading lights in the party , they are unelectable

    Bacik has run for the Dáil twice and Europe once without getting elected.

    New SF TD Paul Donnelly got in to the Dáil at his sixth attempt in February

    Who decides what is the limit of being rejected?


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  • #7
    Hello 2D Person Below
    Registered Users Posts: 13,755 ✭✭✭✭Hello 2D Person Below


    Could have had some sort of decent future had they had a clear-out post 2016 election. Alas, the same snouts remained at the trough and choked any life left remaining out of it.


  • #8
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    L1011 wrote: »
    Bacik has run for the Dáil twice and Europe once without getting elected.

    New SF TD Paul Donnelly got in to the Dáil at his sixth attempt in February

    Who decides what is the limit of being rejected?

    Toxic Ivana Bacik could not get dragged over the line by Eamon Gilmore when he was at the peak of his popularity.
    She and her line of advice for party policy have destroyed any electability for Labour, thats not just my opinion but the results of the last few elections, Labour are dead until they clear house.
    Also people dont like the fact that a multiple times election looser is parachuted into a handy Seanad number, money for nothing, a reward for failure.
    It gives the impression of a Golden Labour Circle, hence Labour is dead to the public until the dead wood is gone.


  • #9
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    da_miser wrote: »
    Toxic Ivana Bacik could not get dragged over the line by Eamon Gilmore when he was at the peak of his popularity.
    She and her line of advice for party policy have destroyed any electability for Labour, thats not just my opinion but the results of the last few elections, Labour are dead until they clear house.
    Also people dont like the fact that a multiple times election looser is parachuted into a handy Seanad number, money for nothing, a reward for failure.
    It gives the impression of a Golden Labour Circle, hence Labour is dead to the public until the dead wood is gone.

    You didn't answer the question

    She was elected to the Seanad before she ever ran for the Dail. She had run for Europe by that stage, however; as a second candidate with realistically no chance of being elected due to the name recognition of De Rossa.


    Is it possible that you just don't like her personally?


  • #10
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    L1011 wrote: »
    You didn't answer the question

    She was elected to the Seanad before she ever ran for the Dail. She had run for Europe by that stage, however; as a second candidate with realistically no chance of being elected due to the name recognition of De Rossa.


    Is it possible that you just don't like her personally?

    Seanad is not a proper election, its a joke in a democracy, just look at the people who get "elected" and tell me its not a reward for members of cliques.
    As for Ivana ,never met her, she could be super nice as a person, but i do know she is a main policy advisor for Labour, and Labour have moved far away from what they are supposed to be, a party for the workers,
    they are now champagne socialists, snouts at the trough, only in it for themselves.
    As long as she is a leading light, a unelectable politician , what chance does Labour have of regaining seats from real left leaning parties?


  • #11
    nigeldaniel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I would not say labour are finished just yet. Kelly is probably the best chance they have as who else can has been heard of outside their County. Ó Ríordáin I never knew until he pipped up. At least Kelly had a track record. Give Labour and Kelly 12 months before we can really judge is all I am going to say. The rebuild worked for the Greens so it can work for others too.

    Dan.



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  • #12
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    da_miser wrote: »
    Seanad is not a proper election, its a joke in a democracy, just look at the people who get "elected" and tell me its not a reward for members of cliques.
    As for Ivana ,never met her, she could be super nice as a person, but i do know she is a main policy advisor for Labour, and Labour have moved far away from what they are supposed to be, a party for the workers,
    they are now champagne socialists, snouts at the trough, only in it for themselves.
    As long as she is a leading light, a unelectable politician , what chance does Labour have of regaining seats from real left leaning parties?

    You still haven't answered the question I see

    Who decides how often is too often to lose a Dail election?

    Also, Bacik represents a university constituency which means she is not elected by councillors. You can't and don't get dropped in to a seat there


  • #13
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    L1011 wrote: »
    You still haven't answered the question I see

    Who decides how often is too often to lose a Dail election?

    Also, Bacik represents a university constituency which means she is not elected by councillors. You can't and don't get dropped in to a seat there

    She is unelectable
    She is a policy advisor
    Labour is now in the wilderness due to the public not interested in their policies
    Labour will remain in the wilderness while they follow her failed policies
    Her advice has made Labour a mickey mouse party, until she and her current fellow advisors are show the door and Labour get fresh blood in , Labour will not be making a comeback.
    You can give your can a fresh coat of paint, but if you dont fix the engine it will still be the same old banger at the end of the day.
    The old guard have to go, including Ivana if Labour are ever to become a political force again.
    Róisín Shortall left Labour and the likes of Ivana behind , starting form nothing the Social democrats have overtaken Labour in a few short years, there is all the proof you need that Ivana and her fellow labour old guard are unelectable dead wood that need to go.


  • #14
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    So you're never going to answer the question?

    The Soc Dems have about half the vote base Labour have and scraped a few extremely lucky last seats on SF transfers that won't be there next time (due to SF running more candidates), plus one from a botched FG tactic in Cork.


  • #15
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,066 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Uncivil post and response deleted.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #16
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    This discussion is about labour
    SF TD Paul Donnelly got in to the Dáil at his sixth attempt in February, he was not a leading light of SF, Ivana is in Labour.
    See the difference?
    Ivana has helped to steer Labour onto the rocks
    She is still advising the Captain on which direction to steer the ship.
    Labour are dead to the public until they change course and that wont happen with Ivana as a main policy advisor.
    So Labour should thank her for her work down the years and move her on, a bit like a football player who has been a loyal servant at a club, but who no longer can hack it at the highest level.


  • #17
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You do seem to be quite unhealthily obsessed with Bacik


  • #18
    man98
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭man98


    da_miser wrote: »
    This discussion is about labour
    SF TD Paul Donnelly got in to the Dáil at his sixth attempt in February, he was not a leading light of SF, Ivana is in Labour.
    See the difference?
    Ivana has helped to steer Labour onto the rocks
    She is still advising the Captain on which direction to steer the ship.
    Labour are dead to the public until they change course and that wont happen with Ivana as a main policy advisor.
    So Labour should thank her for her work down the years and move her on, a bit like a football player who has been a loyal servant at a club, but who no longer can hack it at the highest level.

    I believe Labour policy is dictated by the Labour Policy Unit, as well their head of policy. Ivana Bacik is not on that policy unit. There's plenty of blame to lay at the doors of people in the Labour Party, but Bacik isn't really on that list.


  • #19
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    man98 wrote: »
    I believe Labour policy is dictated by the Labour Policy Unit, as well their head of policy. Ivana Bacik is not on that policy unit. There's plenty of blame to lay at the doors of people in the Labour Party, but Bacik isn't really on that list.

    The definition of insanity = Labour
    Out with the old failed people and in with the new , whats the worst that could happen, they are already also rans?


  • #20
    patsman07
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭patsman07


    I'm in mid thirties, throughout my adult life I've felt Labour is my natural political home. I'm a Social Democrat. Basically I'd like Ireland to become more like the Nordic countries. Labour have been ahead of the curve on Social issues that have only recently been resolved. In recent years however, I've become increasingly disappointed by the parties embrace of wokeness/identity politics. Personally, I believe it's a divisive form of politics and I don't accept it's premise. Furthermore I think it's highly unpopular amongst most voters, particulary my generation and older. Just this week I've seen elected officials from the party express their support for protestors who are breaking all social distancing guidelines. Can't get their virtue signalling out fast enough, it's pathetic.


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