The Last Of Us 2

goon_magee · 03-06-2020 11:20am

This notion that anyone who holds any negative perception of the game must be a bigot, in itself is extremely intolerant...Guess that makes those on both sides of the fence bigots in that case right?

There is a lot of discussion around gripes people have with the story that have absolutely nothing to do with gender or sexuality, and that seems to be getting glossed over so people can push this narrative that all negative criticism of the game must be political or an based on intolerance of more liberal social values. I mentioned a while back that I had what I assume is the ending of the game spoiled on me; the vast majority of criticism I have seen on the game is around this point, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what team Ellie bats for or her gender.

Of course there is bigots that don't like the focus of the game for those reasons, but people need to stop tarring all negative opinions with the same brush. If anything I have to commend some of these people getting lumped in with the intolerant crowd for being able to bite their tongue; it would be very easy to actually explain the reasons they don't like the game's direction, but they're choosing not to out of respect for not spoiling the game for others. Once this is all said and done and opinions can be voiced without fear of spoilers, hopefully all this virtue signalling and intolerance can **** off and we can actually just have a good critical discussion about the game based on its own merits, not the complete intolerance of people on both sides of the fence.

Retr0gamer · 03-06-2020 11:34am

Game isn't even out yet but already getting judged.

And the bit that is getting people worked up over isn't worth getting worked up over. Unless you are a bigot.

The Raging Bile Duct · 03-06-2020 11:37am

You won't tolerate my intolerance so that makes you just as intolerant... FFS...

goon_magee · 03-06-2020 11:54am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Game isn't even out yet but already getting judged.

And the bit that is getting people worked up over isn't worth getting worked up over. Unless you are a bigot.

I think you're seeing what you want to see I'm afraid, because it suits this everyone that speaks out is a bigot narrative that you seem intent on pushing. I've seen plenty of valid criticisms about pivotal plot moments, none that I personally agree with because I'd rather play the game and judge myself, but plenty that are not based on any intolerance of people's beliefs.

I'll agree to disagree with you, but personally I take issue with your intolerance of all negative opinions on the game and will consider you a bigot since it's as binary as that!

Leroy42 · 03-06-2020 12:09pm

But the question is, without having played the game and understood the full emotional journey, on what basis are people judging that certain plot decisions are wrong?

People are making judgements without context and assuming the decision is wrong based on what they would prefer to happen.

OptimusTractor · 03-06-2020 12:09pm

CASTS COOLING SPELL It's reaching playing Monopoly with family levels in here. It's just a game with no affects whatsoever on real life.

shrewdness · 03-06-2020 12:12pm

I guess I'm just surprised that some people already seem to have such negative opinions of the game when it's not even out yet. Especially when it's apparently come out since that not all of the leaks are accurate (I guess there were leaks in both video and text?).

Anyway, hard for me to understand yet given that I haven't seen the leaks, and I get that people can get an idea of the story from the leaks that they don't agree with. But I suppose I just want to wait to actually play through the game first and form my opinion from that experience, rather than online leaks which could be out of context for all I know. Maybe I'll also come to the conclusion that I don't like the direction they've taken, but I want to find out for myself.

goon_magee · 03-06-2020 12:16pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

But the question is, without having played the game and understood the full emotional journey, on what basis are people judging that certain plot decisions are wrong?

People are making judgements without context and assuming the decision is wrong based on what they would prefer to happen.

I agree, no real value to getting worked up over something without playing the game in its entirety. Just pointing out that the plot decisions people seem to dislike aren't all tied to people being bigots or intolerant, some people are just genuinely doubting the direction the game is taking in other areas.

Similar to your last point above, people are making judgements and assuming everyone is a bigot without the full context of why people are unhappy with the story. They have no basis for lumping each and every negative opinion into the same intolerant bracket as they also haven't played the game and don't fully understand why people hold those negative opinions. It works both ways and is equally stupid no matter what angle you look at it from IMO.

goon_magee · 03-06-2020 12:30pm

shrewdness wrote: »

I guess I'm just surprised that some people already seem to have such negative opinions of the game when it's not even out yet. Especially when it's apparently come out since that not all of the leaks are accurate (I guess there were leaks in both video and text?).

Anyway, hard for me to understand yet given that I haven't seen the leaks, and I get that people can get an idea of the story from the leaks that they don't agree with. But I suppose I just want to wait to actually play through the game first and form my opinion from that experience, rather than online leaks which could be out of context for all I know. Maybe I'll also come to the conclusion that I don't like the direction they've taken, but I want to find out for myself.

Agreed. If someone had set out the plot of the original game in front of me I probably would have brushed it off as generic and nothing original. At it's core it's just a retread of special child/zombie combo that was a huge crutch at the time when it was a must for everything to have zombies in it. Naughty Dog's storytelling almost always shines through no matter how tropey things might seem at first.

s8n · 03-06-2020 1:46pm

J. Marston wrote: »

Cite you definitions all you want but don't lump me in with that word because I don't like a video games story's direction. My reasons have zero to do with gender, race, sexual preference or anything else like that. It's purely to do with hacky writing.

I'll never understand how you're a mod. Pointlessly antagonistic.

**Yawn**

bennyl10 · 03-06-2020 1:54pm

splashthecash wrote: »

Sorry all, pardon my ignorance but what exactly is the reason for all the forum chatter about LOU part 2? There seems to be all manner of comments about Naughty Dog's behaviour, potential poor review scores, wokeness....where is this all coming from? Its hardly cos of a leak is it or cos yer wan is a lesbian is it?

I watched the trailer and am very much looking forward to it - the first is one of my all time favourites

this is why,
A bunch of sexist 'incels' who think that 'SJW' and 'leftists' are pushing the 'homosexual agenda' into their game

any reviewers who are positive are the same and don't understand the real world.

were all just sheeple if we're excited for this game and not appalled ND have done this

the reddit thread really is dispicable

The Raging Bile Duct · 03-06-2020 2:02pm

J. Marston wrote: »

Fúck off labelling everyone who doesn't like the leaks a bigot.

You mightn't like it for the hacky writing and that's fair enough but you can't deny that the vast majority of the most vocal hate for the game is definitely coming from a culture war, alt-right asshole brigade.

J. Marston · 03-06-2020 2:13pm

bennyl10 wrote: »

this is why,
A bunch of sexist 'incels' who think that 'SJW' and 'leftists' are pushing the 'homosexual agenda' into their game

What I don't understand is why is it a problem now? Ellie has been gay since the first game and it's been a long time but I can't remember uproar about her and Riley back then.

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

You mightn't like it for the hacky writing and that's fair enough but you can't deny that the vast majority of the most vocal hate for the game is definitely coming from a culture war, alt-right asshole brigade.

There absolutely is that element to it but I took umbrage with being lumped in with them by that clown.

johnny_ultimate · 03-06-2020 2:21pm

There is zero doubt there are people who genuinely don’t like details of the plot, and there are people who’ll dislike the game for a whole range of reasons. To dismiss all those people as bigots is wildly unfair.

Equally, important to not understate how much ‘controversy’ is being driven by a load of perpetually furious YouTubers and forum warriors who think the mere existence of a female lead character that doesn’t comply with their narrow worldview is some kind of radical leftist political statement. It’s not just games that experience this, but all ‘nerd culture’ - you get the same deal with superhero movies and the like. These people will never be happy until the very narrow type of media they obsess over follows a deeply conservative (not just in the political sense, but more this idea that everything should be exactly the same forever) approach. It’s not just enough to not like something - it’s important for these people to be endlessly furious about the most trivial things. A lot of these people are, to be perfectly frank, bigots.

What’s important to remember is that such people represent a small - albeit loud and toxic - percentage of those who play video games. Most people who play The Last of Us 2 will never watch a video about how it’s ‘SJW propaganda’ or such garbage. Most people will play it and judge it on its own terms, rather than some never-ending internet culture war.

As an aside: I wholly agree that it’s impossible to judge how effective any game is without playing it. Many plot synopses in great films and books read ridiculously outside of context. This could well be hacky nonsense - but playing a 15-20 hour game is very different than reading a few plot details on a forum

The Raging Bile Duct · 03-06-2020 2:26pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

As an aside: I wholly agree that it’s impossible to judge how effective any game is without playing it. Many plot synopses in great films and books read ridiculously outside of context. This could well be hacky nonsense - but playing a 15-20 hour game is very different than reading a few plot details on a forum

I was actually thinking this morning of a plot line in Breaking Bad that involved Walt, Jesse, an air traffic controller and his daughter which would have sounded like the stupidest, soapiest plot possible if explained to someone in a couple of lines. But the way it unfolds in the series is really interesting and it shows how twisted Walt's sense of morality has become and even when he tries to redeem himself he makes a complete bags of it.

Retr0gamer · 03-06-2020 2:44pm

It's not actually the gay angle people are giving out about, it's a feminist one. You wouldn't know unless you spoiled that part of the game for you.

And if you did spoil that part of the game for yourself you'll have two reactions.

1) druckmann is a sell out. Anita sarkesian is whispering in his ear.

Or

2) that's it? That's what the whole ****show is about? Fecking bigots getting upset to make themselves upset again.

I mean it actually works in the context of the story from what I've seen. Now there is a possibility that you don't like it and would love a discussion about it in a non spoiler thread but the only discussion is about feminists ruining my hobbies for me and that's utter balls.

Mr Crispy · 03-06-2020 2:47pm

Edit: Never mind, answered above.

EoinMcLovin · 03-06-2020 6:52pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02mXLLt4vLk

mutley18 · 03-06-2020 8:41pm

Could we possibly expect another delay with the riots in the US?

pedatron · 03-06-2020 9:12pm

Have lads this pre-ordered and if so where? Tried searching the thread but I'm getting an error when I search at the minute.

OptimusTractor · 03-06-2020 9:16pm

mutley18 wrote: »

Could we possibly expect another delay with the riots in the US?

Seriously I hope not. It'll just give the agenda theorists more fuel.

At this stage I'll be playing the game just to spite a select few youtubers and the sh!tfest that the mods let the Reddit page become.

The Raging Bile Duct · 03-06-2020 9:19pm

pedatron wrote: »

Have lads this pre-ordered and if so where? Tried searching the thread but I'm getting an error when I search at the minute.

Smyths doing pre-order click and collect for €55

pedatron · 03-06-2020 10:37pm

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Smyths doing pre-order click and collect for €55

I may go for that so probably. Not gonna be getting any bargains here!

JimBurnley · 04-06-2020 12:40am

I have a collect in store pre order with GameStop. Is there any word yet if they'll be open by then? Maybe next week with Phase 2? Or is that for more essential stuff still?

Jordan 199 · 04-06-2020 12:48am

JimBurnley wrote: »

I have a collect in store pre order with GameStop. Is there any word yet if they'll be open by then? Maybe next week with Phase 2? Or is that for more essential stuff still?

You might a phone call from the manager about getting it delivered to you. I was talking to the manager of the shop where I was going to pick mine up but I will get it delivered as the shop will be closed.

Minime2.5 · 04-06-2020 4:56am

[/For me It was never an issue that Ellie is the main character or that she is a lesbian. Anyone that’s mad about that probably has issues. It’s more the treatment of Joel (the main character) as secondary character now and then how’s he’s killed and to top it off you play as his killer. If I played without knowing any of that, I’d get that point and stop. It just makes me feel sick a bit. I stopped watching the walking dead when they battered Glenn to death. I thought “you know what this isn’t fun or interesting, it’s just shocking and cruel and overly gruesome for the sake of Shock value”, It was also getting worse and worse quality wise.

Another issues for me is
There’s a trope in media referred to as woman in the fridge or something like that , I’ll let you look it up. Basically it’s a story beat that sets up a character for the audience to like to just to kill them off so the primary character has something to fight for... revenge, grief etc. now women have been complaining about it for years and rightly so as it’s a bit simple and tropey but it’s kinda exactly what they’re doing with Joel,
And I think it’s hypocritical to complain about something for years and then use it as a main plot point then not criticise it for use here.

As for if it’s true if the new character is trans woman. Not sure if that is true. But it looks like Abby is unnaturally built, if she’s a born female, as in the apocalypse steroids and even food would be rationed so a female getting to tank status is highly unlikely, same if she’s a trans character, transitioning is an indulgence of a society that has had it pretty soft for generations and in an apocalyptic scenario it seems very unlikely / unrealistic someone would make that decision to make they’re life exponentially harder.

Robert ninja · 04-06-2020 5:41am

J. Marston wrote: »

What I don't understand is why is it a problem now?

It's not a problem. A character being gay in and of itself doesn't actually upset the majority of people making fun of the wokeness of this game and the behavior of ND & Sony. Nor is it even close to what people have an issue with when it comes to far-left progressive biases in the industry.

Minime2.5 wrote: »

As for if it’s true if the new character is trans woman. Not sure if that is true. But it looks like Abby is unnaturally built, if she’s a born female, as in the apocalypse steroids and even food would be rationed so a female getting to tank status is highly unlikely

AFAIK it is true and the ridiculousness of it given the game setting has caused some of the controversy. See videoS below for further digging on this kind of thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5UXp-TbPhM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1m8KF31ySA

OptimusTractor wrote: »

At this stage I'll be playing the game just to spite a select few youtubers and the sh!tfest that the mods let the Reddit page become.

Yes spending your money out of spite will surely teach independent online creators a lesson. If that was a twitter post it would be used as material in their videos/posts to laugh at.

OptimusTractor · 04-06-2020 6:20am

Robert ninja wrote: »

Yes spending your money out of spite will surely teach independent online creators a lesson. If that was a twitter post it would be used as material in their videos/posts to laugh at.

Any chance you can screenshot the post and send it to them for me. Stopped using twitter after my leaving cert.

Cheers.

Robert ninja · 04-06-2020 6:49am

If you want to use twitter do it yourself.

The Last Of Us 2

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