Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

more of it now, we're all women-hating misogynists, just want to exert control, shame the hussies because they deserve it, isn't that it?
nothing to do with philosophical questions about 'life' at all

you haven't asked any philosophical questions? or at least ones that have not been asked a million times already

STB. wrote: »

So this is where the weirdos with their signs and the parish priest hang out when they aren't down hassling other people in Holles Street.....

well, it was meant to be a thread about a misdiagnosed ' Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks', but then things took a turn

STB. wrote: »

So this is where the weirdos with their signs and the parish priest hang out when they aren't down hassling other people in Holles Street.....

I work beside Holles Street...I think those people have disappeared I haven't seen them in a few months anyway literally zero people even engaged with them...they could have moved online though true ...

Same as eating an egg.

Crock Rock wrote: »

If the parents didn't want to kill a child in the womb then this wouldn't have happened.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/woman-who-had-abortion-after-misleading-test-calls-for-an-inquiry-1.3916959

“We did not take the steps to terminate lightly and we were not scared of the prospect of caring or loving a very sick child. We were told this was a fatal foetal abnormality,” the couple told RTÉ News on Thursday.

DubInMeath wrote: »

So you haven't actually read the accounts of the case either. Why am I not surprised.

He did read something at least. He learnt the word womb. He thought babies were in the pregnant ladies stomach earlier.

it's not,

Antares35 wrote: »

This is a very grey area. I used to be very idealistic about this too, and often asked, "why can't people give their baby up for adoption instead of aborting them?" and I remember someone answered "because adoption is an alternative to parenting, not pregnancy". This is very true.

I am currently 28 weeks with a baby who was unplanned but never unwanted. I wouldn't in a million years have aborted her because abortion just doesn't align with my values and I couldn't live with myself but, I can tell you that I came under pressure to do so. I can also tell you that pregnancy is far from easy. it isn't just a case of "oh sure just have the child and then give it away". It is a huge amount of time - I joke that Jesus only had to do 40 days, we get 40 weeks!:) It's a sacrifice - no more drinking or smoking, you need to eat healthily and be careful about literally everything. You can't take painkillers. It can also be expensive.

Then the endless list of complaints like insomnia, mood swings, feeling like you are going mad. Anyone who suffered with mental health issues (as I did) will likely find these flaring up again and it can be really scary to feel like you are no longer in control.

There's also the small matter of labour and the fear of how painful this will be etc. I feel all of these fears etc. and my baby is wanted and I have something wonderful to look forward to, but why would a woman go through all of this knowing that all that faces her is the pain and trauma of birth and then further pain and trauma of giving up her baby?

I don't like abortion and I never will, and I will certainly never have one, but I can no longer be ok with the "oh just have it and give it up" argument because there is so much more to it than that.

One of the best posts I've ever seen on this subject Antares. I have three beautiful children (grown now) and have had an abortion after having the three of them.

Not for one second could I consider going through what I did for nine months with the other three and then handing it over, not a hope in hell. Even when people have said to me would you be a surrogate I've said no, I just couldn't be that unselfish.

Thanks for your post.

volchitsa wrote: »

Anyway, there was literally nobody promoting a pro choice position in the 1980s

The Workers' Party
Maybe half of Labour, although few campaigned
A few in FG
A couple of independent senators and TDs


However they were overwhelmingly shouted down in the media, their (few) posters ripped down, denounced from the pulpit, denied venues for public meetings, anti-amendment canvassers were shouted at and abused (still happened in 2018 to some extent), and at least one anti-amendment march in 1983 was attacked by Provo thugs.



Whereas in 2018 the No side had:
Several ex-FG politicians
Peadar Toibin
Most of FF
Most rural independents
And their secret weapon - Ronan Mullen

VAST quantities of posters and internet ads, the funding for which has never been explained
50:50 coverage on TV/Radio (and the first RTE debate was clearly biased in their favour)
Lots of newspaper and billboard ads (again, funding???)
Vast quantities of freesheets and leaflets through doors, Alive! magazine anyone??
Priests battering away at it on the pulpit again, though a lot fewer listening this time.
Etc.

The No vote actually declined between the start of the campaign and the end! they'd have probably done better if they hadn't kept ramming their hateful and anti-woman arguments down the throats of the electorate.

beejee wrote: »

1) believe in straight up biology that presents the simple truth that life begins at cellular fusion.

Yes. To which I say, in all sincerity, so what?

Just because a "life" exists doesn't mean it is deserving at all times of any legal rights or human rights. As has been pointed out to you many many times now.

Most of these fertilised eggs never implant and go down the toilet and nobody ever knows they existed. Should the gardai investigate and conduct forensic examinations of sanitary products just in case there is a "dead body" there?

If we try to give full legal and human rights to a fertilised egg then it leads to all sorts of problems. We pretended this was the case under the 8th amendment, but in practice we didn't give zygotes any legal rights provided actual abortions were not taking place here (Massive hypocrisy no.1 : we were fine with Irish women having abortions provided it happened in another country.)

If you actually try to enforce and protect these rights from conception, then it leads to crazy situations. IVF clinics being banned, women in Central America getting 20 years in prison for a perfectly natural miscarriage. Or women being sued by lawyers appointed by the state on behalf of her pregnancy because she took brand X of vitamin supplement instead of brand Y.

If you actually believe that a zygote has full legal rights then do frozen embryos in IVF clinics have a right to be born? If so, then abducting women off the street and forcibly implanting them with these embryos to give them their chance to be born would be moral. Sure isn't it only 9 months of minor inconvenience for her, as we were constantly told during the referendum campaign? If this isn't in fact moral, and therefore a woman's right to bodily integrity is more important than the right of an embryo to be born, well congratulations on belatedly accepting the pro-choice argument.

At the other end of the spectrum, a person with a heartbeat and no brain activity is technically alive, but legally and morally we accept that treatment can be withdrawn, their organs harvested etc. By your arguments this is just as morally unacceptable as popping an abortion pill at six weeks. It's a nonsense.

volchitsa wrote: »

Were those people all pro-choice, or just anti-8th-amendment?

Interesting results here
https://irishelectionliterature.com/?s=1983+amendment

The last two are from the official anti-amendment campaign, which was pro-choice in cases of rape and incest at least. See point (2) here:



Pretty sure WP, a couple in Labour and a couple of independent TDs / senators were explicitly pro-choice.