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Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

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Comments

  • #1502
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Like most people on here I was pro choice, but I understand the barbarity of the practice and I've completely changed my outlook.

    Look up potassium chloride abortions. What a barbaric way to die.

    It's ironic really, the most dangerous place for a child statistically is in their mother's womb. It's sad.
    You voted Yes and now regret it.


  • #1503
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    There's so few adoptions because life is disposable.

    8 women on average were going to the UK to have abortions, the number of on-demand abortions are probably similar here since killing children in the womb was legalised.

    If you say so. But your facts have been fast and loose with the truth up to now, so I'll take it with the preverbal pinch of salt. "Probably" butters no parsnips.


  • #1504
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    There's so few adoptions because life is disposable.

    8 women on average were going to the UK to have abortions, the number of on-demand abortions are probably similar here since killing children in the womb was legalised.

    The 6000 kids in foster care would dispute that.


  • #1505
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    There's so few adoptions because life is disposable.

    8 women on average were going to the UK to have abortions, the number of on-demand abortions are probably similar here since killing children in the womb was legalised.

    Absolute BS. People aren't adopting because they are barely having children themselves. The average family size has decreased massively, with many opting not to have kids at all by choice.

    You can't suggest adoption as an alternative to abortion when;
    a) that's of no use to a woman who can't stay pregnant and
    b) there aren't enough willing adoptive parents to take on all these extra children.

    If there were 5 domestic adoptions for the whole year of 2018, where do you propose you'll find just under 3,000 suitable, willing adoptive parents for the babies of the 8 women per day who travelled for terminations in your above example?
    And the year after, and the year after that? So say over the course of 10 years, where are you going to find 30,000 adoptive parents for all these extra children?

    Its just a lazy, emotionally manipulative "solution" that is completely unworkable if you give it more than 30 seconds of thought.


  • #1506
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    There's so few adoptions because life is disposable.

    8 women on average were going to the UK to have abortions, the number of on-demand abortions are probably similar here since killing children in the womb was legalised.

    You claim you were previously pro-choice, but that learning the details of some specific abortion procedures changed your mind. However, you repeatedly refer to foetuses and embryos as "children". In fact, most of your language is very similar to that of a conventional, religiously-motivated, pro-lifer.

    Add to that your odd relationship with the facts, figures and science of this debate, and you've got a massive credibility problem.


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  • #1507
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    There's so few adoptions because life is disposable.

    8 women on average were going to the UK to have abortions, the number of on-demand abortions are probably similar here since killing children in the womb was legalised.

    This is a very grey area. I used to be very idealistic about this too, and often asked, "why can't people give their baby up for adoption instead of aborting them?" and I remember someone answered "because adoption is an alternative to parenting, not pregnancy". This is very true.

    I am currently 28 weeks with a baby who was unplanned but never unwanted. I wouldn't in a million years have aborted her because abortion just doesn't align with my values and I couldn't live with myself but, I can tell you that I came under pressure to do so. I can also tell you that pregnancy is far from easy. it isn't just a case of "oh sure just have the child and then give it away". It is a huge amount of time - I joke that Jesus only had to do 40 days, we get 40 weeks!:) It's a sacrifice - no more drinking or smoking, you need to eat healthily and be careful about literally everything. You can't take painkillers. It can also be expensive.

    Then the endless list of complaints like insomnia, mood swings, feeling like you are going mad. Anyone who suffered with mental health issues (as I did) will likely find these flaring up again and it can be really scary to feel like you are no longer in control.

    There's also the small matter of labour and the fear of how painful this will be etc. I feel all of these fears etc. and my baby is wanted and I have something wonderful to look forward to, but why would a woman go through all of this knowing that all that faces her is the pain and trauma of birth and then further pain and trauma of giving up her baby?

    I don't like abortion and I never will, and I will certainly never have one, but I can no longer be ok with the "oh just have it and give it up" argument because there is so much more to it than that.


  • #1508
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    pjohnson wrote: »
    "Anti-life"
    The no side are great value tbf. Never know what they'll vomit out next.

    same as 'anti-choice' being vomited out by the other side, tbf


  • #1509
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    same as 'anti-choice' being vomited out by the other side, tbf

    Not really, the anti choice label is actually quite accurate.

    Plenty of people are pro life but respect that people will make their own choices when it comes to their pregnancy.

    Anti choice people do not respect people making their own choices in relation to their pregnancy and try to justify their views through the frankly stupid and false statements we've seen on here.


  • #1510
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    same as 'anti-choice' being vomited out by the other side, tbf

    Maybe both sides need to grow up, cut out the negative emotive language and stick with pro-life and pro-choice.

    This kind of one-upmanship helps neither side of the argument.


  • #1511
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Using the logic that some people are using here, men should be able to opt out of parenthood too by abdication of all his responsibilities AND rights.

    What if becoming a parent against his will makes a man suicidal too?


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  • #1512
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Using the logic that some people are using here, men should be able to opt out of parenthood too by abdication of all his responsibilities AND rights.

    What if becoming a parent against his will makes a man suicidal too?

    It’s very easy for man not to be a father, all he has to do is not have sex with a woman.


  • #1513
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    If you say so. But your facts have been fast and loose with the truth up to now, so I'll take it with the preverbal pinch of salt. "Probably" butters no parsnips.

    Murray, C., 2016. The Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act 2013: Suicide, dignity and the Irish discourse on abortion. Social & Legal Studies, 25(6), pp.667-698.


  • #1514
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    It’s very easy for man not to be a father, all he has to do is not have sex with a woman.

    Could you not say the reverse for women?


  • #1515
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Could you not say the reverse for women?

    Not all women.


  • #1516
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Not all women.

    ??


  • #1517
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Not all women.

    If a woman wants the right to opt out of unplanned parenthood then why shouldn't the men have that option too?


  • #1518
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Could you not say the reverse for women?

    I didn't know a rapist offers the sex or no sex option to a woman?


  • #1519
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    It’s very easy for man not to be a father, all he has to do is not have sex with a woman.

    It’s very easy for a woman not to be a mother, all she has to do is not have sex with a man.

    Imagine the **** storm for saying the opposite.


  • #1520
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I didn't know a rapist offers the sex or no sex option to a woman?

    So casual sex and falls pregnant... Two friends or bf and gf... Should she be allowed to abort?


  • #1521
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    It’s very easy for a woman not to be a mother, all she has to do is not have sex with a man.

    Imagine the **** storm for saying the opposite.

    What about a pregnancy as a result of rape or incest, what choice had the woman/girl?


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  • #1522
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    What about a pregnancy as a result of rape or incest, what choice had the woman/girl?

    Read my post above yours.


  • #1523
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    So casual sex and falls pregnant... Two friends or bf and gf... Should she be allowed to abort?

    You didn't answer my question, does a rapist offer a woman a no sex option?


  • #1524
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You didn't answer my question, does a rapist offer a woman a no sex option?

    Of course not. It's not the conceived baby's fault.

    Now answer mine


  • #1525
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    ??

    I hate to break it to you, but rape is totally a thing.


  • #1526
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Read my post above yours.

    A question answered by a question. Have you actually any valid point to make other than the usual bs posted by pro life nuts?


  • #1527
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    A question answered by a question. Have you actually any valid point to make other than the usual bs posted by pro life nuts?

    If women want abortion on demand do you think it'd be acceptable to give men the equivalent of "opting out of fatherhood" even if the girl wants to keep the child?


  • #1528
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    kylith wrote: »
    I hate to break it to you, but rape is totally a thing.

    Who said it wasn't?


  • #1529
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Murray, C., 2016. The Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act 2013: Suicide, dignity and the Irish discourse on abortion. Social & Legal Studies, 25(6), pp.667-698.

    Does it extrapolate to a "probably" as well?


  • #1530
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Of course not. It's not the conceived baby's fault.

    Now answer mine

    So in the case of rape or incest do you accept it's a valid reason for a woman or girl to have an abortion?

    To answer your question, you are aware women now have the choice to seek an abortion here since the referendum passed reasons not required up to a certain time period. I tend not to tell another individual what to do with their body. Personal choice and all that.


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  • #1531
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Of course not. It's not the conceived baby's fault.

    Yet the woman should still be forced to go through the pregnancy and birth, even though it’s not her fault either?


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