The lack of fathers in boys (and girls) lives and the consequences

Pa ElGrande · 22-07-2019 9:02pm #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vX6345eeq4

Dr. Warren Farrell has written a book called the The Boy Crisis. He covers the lack of guidance and options for boys where the father is absent and the bias against young boys and men that permeates the education sector and media in many countries, the effects that has and what can be done. The interview is 48 minutes if you are interested in the topic.

liatroimabu · 22-07-2019 9:19pm

I haven’t the time on me to sit and watch the 48-minute interview but from reading through the webpage about the book he seems to have good points and some shaky stuff.

His point on suicide rates on young men I’d agree with is certainly a crisis.

I would have to see more on his education point “Worldwide, boys are 50 percent less likely than girls to meet basic proficiency in reading, math, and science.” As in, what are the rates in developed countries vs developing, what metrics he has used to come to this statement and so on. If it’s true, then sure it’s a crisis.

What I have a niggle with is his points on father figures and purpose. I grew up without a father, he passed away when I was 1, has it had a detrimental effect on me? Not in the slightest as I’ve seen people from 2 parent households struggle much more in every aspect of life. Obviously, I’d rather have had a father growing up (if he was a good dad) but I had an amazing mother and just having her was better than having her and an asshole dad. The problem isn’t with lack of father figures, people need 1 extremely strong person or 2 strong people regardless of gender to give them a good upbringing.

On the point of purpose, that’s a completely individual thing, his claim of men not being a warrior, a leader, or a sole breadwinner so that means they have a void is bs. Your purpose is what you make it, be it professional, athletic, social or whatever, it’s down to you to find that and it’s not set out on a plate for most people in this world.

Also the people he chooses to help promote his book also brings into question his thoughts on the subject given one of his main promo videos is a Tucker Carlson interview and also has a quote from Suzanne Somers (who said the guy who shot up sandy hook did so because of the detergents used in his house or something along those lines). If they’re the people you need to help promote your book it doesn’t really say much for the book or the legitimacy of its contents.

23-07-2019 11:05am

liatroimabu wrote: »

The problem isn’t with lack of father figures

Agreed. The error people like Farrell make is to take statistics on children that will already suffer issues - such as children of single parents and/or children who were exposed to the turmoil of divorce - and simply assume that the problems observed are due to the missing gender of the absent parent.

They never seem to make comparisons to other configurations to show those issues actually do or do not arise there. Or compare groups based on the reasons for the absence to distinguish if it is the absence - or more the cause of it - that cause issues.

Basically then they are falling into the correlation-causation trap. And we have seen a couple of vocal users on boards absolutely flapping around uselessly when this contradiction to their point about parenting needing to be one man and one woman is raised and their idea there is some kind of "ideal" is torpedoed.

He does seem to make a string of weird assumptions in his interview though. Such as how empathy develops, and seemingly anecdote only based ideas on things like being overwhelmed as a single parent - or "peas negotiations". While my anecdotes for many of his assumptions would be the opposite of his claims.

24-07-2019 3:38pm

I think it can make a huge difference. I have 2 daughters, the older one has come to me all her life for advice and support as she doesn't get on well with her mum - no animosity as such just a different way of looking at things. My younger daughter goes to her mum. So in our case both parents made a big difference.

eviltwin · 24-07-2019 3:53pm

Speaking from experience not having a parent in your life can have a huge impact and it goes far beyond childhood. My parent is alive but just chooses not to be involved in my life and that of my brother. It hasn't led to any sociatal issues, we work, no criminality etc but it's left a lot of mental damage.

It's different losing someone through bereavement. When someone chooses not to recognise you as their child how do you come to terms with that as a kid?

fits · 24-07-2019 4:05pm

I honestly don't know how single parents do it. Financially, emotionally, practically. I would find it very difficult to raise my two boys on my own. Its got to have an effect on children to have a lone parent. That's obvious.

One eyed Jack · 24-07-2019 5:58pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Dr. Warren Farrell has written a book called the The Boy Crisis. He covers the lack of guidance and options for boys where the father is absent and the bias against young boys and men that permeates the education sector and media in many countries, the effects that has and what can be done. The interview is 48 minutes if you are interested in the topic.

To be more accurate, the video is 48 minutes long if you’re interested in his opinions on the topic, and to be fair to him he has done his research, but unfortunately a lot of his research is coloured by his own bias on the topic, especially when he gives his opinions on how to address the issues he has identified and the people he has identified as responsible for the issues in society that he has identified.

Essentially, when you think he’s going to suggest that men step up to the plate and take responsibility for themselves, he goes and puts responsibility for men’s failings in modern society on modern feminism. He was once a prominent feminist himself, but had a falling out with them some time ago and now he’s following in the same vein as that other stalwart (I use the term loosely), Jordan Peterson.

Reviews and Books Galore · 24-07-2019 10:37pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Speaking from experience not having a parent in your life can have a huge impact and it goes far beyond childhood. My parent is alive but just chooses not to be involved in my life and that of my brother. It hasn't led to any sociatal issues, we work, no criminality etc but it's left a lot of mental damage.

It's different losing someone through bereavement. When someone chooses not to recognise you as their child how do you come to terms with that as a kid?

They died from a disease called assholism.

If somebody breaks the social contract of being a parent then that are not a parent. They, as a parent, are dead.

I am sorry to call the person an asshole, but its scummy to break that social contract.

I feel bad for giving a snarky comment after the one above but I'm going to go ahead anyway. (Embaressed smiley)

Thank god they're positive depictions of men in telivision. Its not as if were being inundated with rapists, pedophikes and gangsters now that the good men are too afraid to raise they're children.

God, I'd be curious about a study on two focus groups of two groups. One consuming common media that depicts men as abusers and one not. I'd be genuinely curious if it creates a 'battered child' persona where the person take on the symptoms of a child who has an abusive male figure in their life.

The lack of fathers in boys (and girls) lives and the consequences

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