Would/do you tell insurance companies how many penalty points you have?

scuderia · 20-09-2015 8:42am #1

I've told them all since I started driving but thinking of taking the risk this time especially when the 2 I have expire next August. I renew my insurance mid October.

So would/do you tell them and what is the worst that can happen? Serious answers please! (Impossible on Boards)

Penny Tration · 20-09-2015 8:43am

Worst that'll happen is they find out and your policy is voided - which will be very awkward if you have an accident.

everlast75 · 20-09-2015 8:46am

Serious answer is if you lie on your insurance application the insurance company have the right to refuse you cover if (god forbid) you're involved in an accident.

If you are not covered, the MIBI step in and pay up.

Great says you.... nope!

you are on their database and any time you go to make any purchase, they will get there first so difficulties with car loan applications, mortgages etc.

Tldr - it ain't worth it!

ASOT · 20-09-2015 8:50am

scuderia wrote: »

I've told them all since I started driving but thinking of taking the risk this time especially when the 2 I have expire next August. I renew my insurance mid October.

So would/do you tell them and what is the worst that can happen? Serious answers please! (Impossible on Boards)

I work for an insurance broker, the only underwriter that can check as if right now is Aviva. I also have said iv zero.

scuderia · 20-09-2015 8:54am

Thanks for the responses. Do you know of anyone or ever heard insurance cover being refused after they find out you lied? I mean it can't be that extreme? It adds 150€ to my insurance quote. Just 2 penalty points!

ASOT · 20-09-2015 8:57am

scuderia wrote: »

Thanks for the responses. Do you know of anyone or ever heard insurance cover being refused after they find out you lied? I mean it can't be that extreme? It adds 150€ to my insurance quote. Just 2 penalty points!

If you were to have an accident and they did find out your policy would be cancelled for non disclosure which makes it very hard to get cover in the future, but again you could always say you never received the notice of the points etc if just say it was only two which wouldn't be to unbelievable.

Fr_Dougal · 20-09-2015 8:58am

scuderia wrote: »

I've told them all since I started driving but thinking of taking the risk this time especially when the 2 I have expire next August. I renew my insurance mid October.

So would/do you tell them and what is the worst that can happen? Serious answers please! (Impossible on Boards)

You have to declare them. 2 points won't effect your premium in most cases. If there's ever a claim and you have non-declared points you're leaving yourself open for your insurance company going after your for the claim amount or refusing you cover in future.

CFlat · 20-09-2015 9:03am

scuderia wrote: »

Thanks for the responses. Do you know of anyone or ever heard insurance cover being refused after they find out you lied? I mean it can't be that extreme? It adds 150€ to my insurance quote. Just 2 penalty points!

Really, 150e extra? My insurance company knows Ive 4 pts and said it wasnt a problem as long as it didnt go over that. No additional premium added, not that I know of anyway.

Maybe if you're young they load you?

Anyway its not worth the risk IMO.

Menas · 20-09-2015 9:09am

Definetly not worth the risk. Insurance companies are quick and happy to give quotes and take your premiums but when it comes to paying out for a claim they will look for any excuse not to pay.
Lying on your application for insurance is one of the dumbest things you can do IMO!

To Elland Back · 20-09-2015 9:11am

Declare everything to your insurer, I can't say it often enough. The actions insurers take on discovering non-disclosure are far more severe and longer lasting than any loading

fussyonion · 20-09-2015 9:13am

I'm with Aviva and I had two penalty points a year or two ago.

When I was ringing up to renew, I toyed with not telling them, but before I could even mention them, they said "I see here you've got 2 penalty points", so they already knew and I was glad I said nothing.

It didn't affect my premium very much; I think I had to pay an extra €35.
Anyway, if I went with another insurer, I'd definitely tell them.

It doesn't make a massive difference to your policy and at least you've been honest from the get-go.

scuderia · 20-09-2015 9:18am

Thanks for the responses again. I'll definitely tell them. Not worth the risk.

blueser · 20-09-2015 9:29am

CFlat wrote: »

Really, 150e extra? My insurance company knows Ive 4 pts and said it wasnt a problem as long as it didnt go over that. No additional premium added, not that I know of anyway.

Maybe if you're young they load you?

Anyway its not worth the risk IMO.

Same here. I had 3 points ("earned" back in '07) and my premium never went up. Whether my age at the time (45) had anything to do with that, I'm not sure. I did disclose them for the length I had to; just not worth the risk and any possible future hassle, IMO.

5W30 · 20-09-2015 9:40am

Yes you should most definitely declare penalty points to your insurance companies. They will find out later either way and it won't be good for you.

JustAThought · 20-09-2015 9:54am

I knew a couple whose house had been broken into & their carkeys taken - along with both cars : a BMW & Jeep. She was outraged as she'd been told by her insurance company to go to either Dublin castle or the civil building at dublin castle ( cant remember the name- its across from the front longue) to get a statement of her points & present it to the insurance company. If she had had points she hadnt declared they would not have replaced the cars even thou the crime was nothing to do with her & she was the victim. She was really shocked by this - and that her company wouldnt ( or couldn't) do this themselves & she'd had to take a dayoff work.

[Deleted User] · 20-09-2015 10:01am

everlast75 wrote: »

Serious answer is if you lie on your insurance application the insurance company have the right to refuse you cover if (god forbid) you're involved in an accident.

If you are not covered, the MIBI step in and pay up.

Great says you.... nope!

you are on their database and any time you go to make any purchase, they will get there first so difficulties with car loan applications, mortgages etc.

Tldr - it ain't worth it!

Plus the MIBI can go after the individual to recoup as much of their payout as possible.

QuinDixie · 20-09-2015 10:02am

OP a lot of zany comments here putting you off the reality.
Everyone is doing it, join in.
look at the L plate peeps who have accidents, no insurance company voids their policy because there was no full licence driver with them.
what normal person would ever tell their insurance company about penalty points, if it was so important to the insurance companies they would have a database to access this info.
Its like health insurance , very few people tell the truth and ,many people get health insurance because they have a condition which they then keep from the health insurance company.

Just do what the other 99.99% do, Lie but if ever asked if you tell insurance companies the truth, act indignant.:)

dellas1979 · 20-09-2015 10:13am

CFlat wrote: »

Really, 150e extra?

Yep - I renewed my insurance policy on Thursday gone, and for the first time, I was told if I didnt have 2 penalty points, it would be e150 cheaper also.

Fr_Dougal · 20-09-2015 10:31am

QuinDixie wrote: »

OP a lot of zany comments here putting you off the reality.
Everyone is doing it, join in.
look at the L plate peeps who have accidents, no insurance company voids their policy because there was no full licence driver with them.
what normal person would ever tell their insurance company about penalty points, if it was so important to the insurance companies they would have a database to access this info.
Its like health insurance , very few people tell the truth and ,many people get health insurance because they have a condition which they then keep from the health insurance company.

Just do what the other 99.99% do, Lie but if ever asked if you tell insurance companies the truth, act indignant.:)

Source?

Berserker · 20-09-2015 10:49am

dellas1979 wrote: »

Yep - I renewed my insurance policy on Thursday gone, and for the first time, I was told if I didnt have 2 penalty points, it would be e150 cheaper also.

Hmm, my insurance was the exact same as last years and I have never had any points. I have five years NCB also. Did yours go up?

Menas · 20-09-2015 10:50am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Source?

Waterford whispers!

_Kaiser_ · 20-09-2015 10:57am

QuinDixie wrote: »

OP a lot of zany comments here putting you off the reality.
Everyone is doing it, join in.
look at the L plate peeps who have accidents, no insurance company voids their policy because there was no full licence driver with them.
what normal person would ever tell their insurance company about penalty points, if it was so important to the insurance companies they would have a database to access this info.
Its like health insurance , very few people tell the truth and ,many people get health insurance because they have a condition which they then keep from the health insurance company.

Just do what the other 99.99% do, Lie but if ever asked if you tell insurance companies the truth, act indignant.:)

Some seriously bad advice here...

If you are involved in an accident and it's found out that you lied about something (be it penalty points, having a 3L turbo down as a 1.9 etc) the Insurer may decide to void your cover - they WILL pay for the other party's damage (if you were at fault) but you will be left to pay your own (and possibly their costs?), and as others have said above the repercussions will make things a lot harder - and more expensive - for you to get cover in the future.

[rant] It's "chancers" who follow this sort of advice that have the rest of us paying higher premiums in general [/rant]

Son Of A Vidic · 20-09-2015 11:14am

I always tell them I have no points, because I actually have no points. Anyone that lies to a car insurance company is an idiot and in the long run, they are only shooting themselves in the foot

To Elland Back · 20-09-2015 12:50pm

QuinDixie wrote: »

OP a lot of zany comments here putting you off the reality.
Everyone is doing it, join in.
look at the L plate peeps who have accidents, no insurance company voids their policy because there was no full licence driver with them.
what normal person would ever tell their insurance company about penalty points, if it was so important to the insurance companies they would have a database to access this info.
Its like health insurance , very few people tell the truth and ,many people get health insurance because they have a condition which they then keep from the health insurance company.

Just do what the other 99.99% do, Lie but if ever asked if you tell insurance companies the truth, act indignant.:)

You're very brave giving seriously bad advice that I bet you don't have the balls to follow yourself

CFlat · 20-09-2015 2:55pm

QuinDixie wrote: »

OP a lot of zany comments here putting you off the reality.
Everyone is doing it, join in.
look at the L plate peeps who have accidents, no insurance company voids their policy because there was no full licence driver with them.
what normal person would ever tell their insurance company about penalty points, if it was so important to the insurance companies they would have a database to access this info.
Its like health insurance , very few people tell the truth and ,many people get health insurance because they have a condition which they then keep from the health insurance company.

Just do what the other 99.99% do, Lie but if ever asked if you tell insurance companies the truth, act indignant.:)

QD if you actually didnt declare to your insurance co. that you have points on your license, than you didnt buy an insurance policy, you bought a lottery ticket.

One time in a million you'll be lucky and they wont check and pay out your claim. The other 999,999 you'll be unlucky, they wont pay out and if thats a big accident, god forbid, I assume the gards will be knocking on your door considering you wont have cover.

Hardly worth that worry everytime you get behind the wheel?

QuinDixie · 20-09-2015 3:49pm

its not true. a breach of contract in this case would have to be material, by material it would have to be something that goes to the very reason you have the contract. Not informing about penalty points will not void your insurance because its not material enough and anyone who says it does has not got a clue.
Not informing about a previous accident, may void your insurance but it would take the courts to decide this.

When there is an accident, insurance companies are all in cahoots. They want someone to admit guilt, they dont care who, and they then want to close any claims very quick. They do not want any long drawn out process of you said, they said, and barristers getting involved.
any notification of penalty points etc will be usually be done by Phone/Internet. And who is to say you did not inform them. they would have to prove you did not.

That is why Insurance companies do not void policies. And if they tried it would only revert to MIBI anyway, incurring more huge costs for the insurance companies.

but hey, do what you want.

Cienciano · 20-09-2015 3:52pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I always tell them I have no points, because I actually have no points. Anyone that lies to a car insurance company is an idiot and in the long run, they are only shooting themselves in the foot

No, what if they lie and get a much cheaper premium and they never have to claim?

challengemaster · 20-09-2015 4:16pm

QuinDixie wrote: »

look at the L plate peeps who have accidents, no insurance company voids their policy because there was no full licence driver with them.

It's a clause that's been added to a lot of policies recently.

QuinDixie wrote: »

its not true. a breach of contract in this case would have to be material, by material it would have to be something that goes to the very reason you have the contract. Not informing about penalty points will not void your insurance because its not material enough and anyone who says it does has not got a clue.
Not informing about a previous accident, may void your insurance but it would take the courts to decide this.

That is why Insurance companies do not void policies. And if they tried it would only revert to MIBI anyway, incurring more huge costs for the insurance companies.

but hey, do what you want.

They can't void the policy to escape paying for a crash after it's already happened. But as already explained, they'll pay the 3rd party damages and then pursue you in court to recoup the losses.

You'll find something similar to the below in every insurance policy booklet

We will only have to make a payment
under this policy if:
a all the answers in the proposal and
declaration for this insurance are
true and complete (the proposal and
declaration form the basis of this
contract between us and you); and
b you or any insured person meets
all the terms, conditions and
endorsements of this policy.

You must tell us immediately if:
...
...
This is not a full list and you should tell
us about any change if you are not sure
whether it may affect your policy.
When you tell us about a change, we
may then reassess your premium and
your cover. If you do not tell us about
any relevant changes, we may:
i. reject or reduce your claim; or
ii. cancel the policy and treat it as
though it has never existed.

timthumbni · 20-09-2015 4:18pm

scuderia wrote: »

I've told them all since I started driving but thinking of taking the risk this time especially when the 2 I have expire next August. I renew my insurance mid October.

So would/do you tell them and what is the worst that can happen? Serious answers please! (Impossible on Boards)

I know someone who works in insurance. They don't give a monkeys of you telling lies, in fact they welcome it. The minute you are involved in a (serious) accident they will then rip up your cover and leave you holding the baby.

I've friends who say how cheap their insurance is (as they lie about previous accidents/points etc) I keep telling them they are being idiotic but long runs the fox I suppose. They are in effect driving around without insurance but sure whAtever makes them happy.

CFlat · 20-09-2015 4:37pm

timthumbni wrote: »

I know someone who works in insurance. They don't give a monkeys of you telling lies, in fact they welcome it. The minute you are involved in a (serious) accident they will then rip up your cover and leave you holding the baby.

I've friends who say how cheap their insurance is (as they lie about previous accidents/points etc) I keep telling them they are being idiotic but long runs the fox I suppose. They are in effect driving around without insurance but sure whAtever makes them happy.

Yea. Some posters here living in some kind of cloud cuckoo land. Thinking they're going to pull one over on a massive insurance company.

mutley18 · 20-09-2015 4:45pm

I had 4 points, they expired recently after 3 years, car is insured till next March, do I have to tell the insurance company my licence is clean again or will they know?

Would/do you tell insurance companies how many penalty points you have?

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