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Are Single Module RCBO faster reacting than Double Module?

  • 26-11-2020 12:51pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭


    I'm having issue with nuisance tripping.
    2U RCBO works fine 20A 30mA, trip time 28ms
    1U RCBO is nuisance tripping 32A, 30mA trip, time 25ms and 8ms with a 180° offset.


    I'd rather use the 1U for reasons but it's too sensitive. If I get another will it be the same?


    Hager AD920J (2U)
    Hager ADA332G (1U)


Comments

  • #2
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Are these feeding nonlinear loads?
    I do not see why the width of the device and nuisance tripping would be related.
    In terms of reliability I would consider Schnieder Electric RCBO’s to have the edge on Hager. Schnieder make 1 mod RCBO’s.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Synchronising inverters tripping with load transfer feeding the house (test load). So yeah fridge motors and leds.
    It does it with purely resistive loads too though. It's something to do with the phase shift.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    2011 wrote: »
    Schnieder make 1 mod RCBO’s.


    Acti-9 won't fit unless I put them upside-down...:(


  • #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just ordered a Schneider EZ9D16832
    Rebranded GET so I'm not 100% on yer brand confidence.

    I'll let you know if it fairs any better. Cheers.


  • #6
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    They should be fairly random the trip times shouldn't they?

    Anything over 1/2 I∆N

    Are.any of single mod units actual double pole switching?


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  • #7
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    Synchronising inverters tripping with load transfer feeding the house (test load).

    The high frequency PWM switching of inverters can cause nuisance tripping.
    This can still be an issue even if the inverters are supplying a resistive load.


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I swapped the RCBO. Had no problem with the last one. I only use low frequency inverters because they're waaaay better and the HF requirement of B-type RCDs are a waste of money I could just spend on transformer surge capability instead.

    Pretty consistent trip times on a digital RCD tester.
    Occasionally didn't nuisance trip when the master and slave gensets were harmonising or swapping roles but did most of the time.

    There's no fault on the load side.


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    1U RCBOs only interrupt the Live. Single phase TN-S application.

    And yes both sets are TN-S but not at the same time.
    A double pole would be better in hindsight but I sacrificed the space to metering and a 16A sub.


  • #10
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    1U RCBOs only interrupt the Live. Single phase TN-S application.

    And yes both sets are TN-S but not at the same time.
    A double pole would be better in hindsight but I sacrificed the space to metering and a 16A sub.
    Don't think double pole is strictly required for TN


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not. Would be for floating applications which is a possibility (like right now ironically). I can always put a module inline on a fly lead for this. It's not something I'd elect to do without good reason though. TN-S is my prefered method.


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  • #12
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Pasteur. wrote: »
    Don't think double pole is strictly required for TN

    As far as I recall it is a requirement in ROI. I will look later if I get a chance.

    Anyway 1 mod wide RCBO's are available with 2 pole switching.


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do building regs apply when there's no building or/nor utility involved? :p

    If you do find a reference I'd appreciate the feedback. I like the space-saving so would bias 1Us for this.

    I'll have a look for double pole breaking too. Obviously better.


  • #14
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    2011 wrote: »
    As far as I recall it is a requirement in ROI. I will look later if I get a chance.

    Anyway 1 mod wide RCBO's are available with 2 pole switching.

    I haven't checked either but I think they use the phrase

    "Neutral reliably at earth potential" for everything TN

    Which means only have to switch the phase/ line


  • #15
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    2011 wrote: »

    Anyway 1 mod wide RCBO's are available with 2 pole switching.

    That's good to know thanks


  • #16
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    I know Siemens have one and without the fly leads also, they can get very messy. Siemens - 5SV1316 we got them from Farnell or RS I think.
    Do you have a model for a Hager brand, I could never find one?


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah those fly leads are a pain alright.

    Hager ADA332G is the one I have. Nobody else think it's odd that the trip times are 3 times faster with the phase angle offset 180°?


  • #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Working grand now! Cheers 2011.

    npZhvog.jpg

    e7RUKDu.jpg


  • #19
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    2011 wrote: »
    Schnieder make 1 mod RCBO’s.
    So do Hager, however they are single pole.


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The new RCBO is earth referenced by it's own PE lead.

    I'm not sure if that makes a difference.
    The old 2U Hager that hadn't one worked fine.


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