Offcuts - the general chat thread

SpitfireIV · 16-05-2009 11:58pm

Nice plane JOA!! But then it no where as nice as the two beauties I got Wednesday

:p Two fine specimines of planes they are. A Record No5 and a Stanley 110. Payes the pricely sum of €10 for the both of them

In fact, the postage was about double the price of the two planes!

Heres a little something I made up today! I have a small enough workbench in the centre of the shop, so I'm away from the tool racks on the wall, and, when using chisels the table tends to get fairly crowded quickly. So, 10 mins or so with a bit of MDF and this was the result:

Takes up considerably less space on the table, the chisels can be easily viewed and it saves them from rolling off the bench and such!

I'm sure with a little more work a handle could be incorporated and pockets for other tools :pac:

I'm working on a project at the moment, but when I get that done I want to make some proper tool cabinets for my hand tools. Proper, professional looking cabinets, hand cut joints the whole lot! I have lots of lenghts of new maple floorboards taking up space in the shop that'll do the job.

Oh, I got an Eclipse No.77 saw set also the past week. Anyone here use a saw set to set there own saws? I'd like to learn how to sharpen handsaw, ye know, be more environmentally friendly and all that

. I want to get a gents back saw, so I'd like to be able to keep that sharp as well as an old tenon and rip saw I have.

Fingalian · 17-05-2009 8:55am

Hi Croppy,
This guy would be on my 'go to guy' list when I need to find out how to do something
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/bSmalser/index.asp

and he recommends:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html

the article is about saw filing and there is a link to using the set once you have the teeth filed.

jack of all · 17-05-2009 3:46pm

Great link there Fingalian, another one to be bookmarked. I've sharpened and set a couple of tenon saws in the past with reasonable success. Since my first endeavours in that area I've read an awful lot more about the subject and it really is another field in itself.

CroppyBoy- nice find, what a steal, you'll have some enjoyable hours fine tuning those.

ennisa · 26-05-2009 9:32am

I have yet to buy a saw that can be resharpened. I have been keeping an eye out for a couple that i can refile as rip and crosscut but I have not seen any, i would love to sharpen them by hand when i do find some. I am always hearing good things about the old disstons but the problem is as soon as Chris Schwarz says he can find something on ebay for $20 they all go up by 100%!

Is there anywhere around the country here that would sell old saws?

Fingalian · 03-06-2009 11:55pm

So what y'all working on at the mo? I'm working on a treehouse for the kids and a boat for me:) Can any of you explain why 90% of circular saws have the motor on the left and the blade on the right when most of us are right handed? You have to lean over the friggin thing to watch the cut line

Is it something to do with the way the armature on the motor is wound ? is it cheaper to make em that way?

ennisa · 04-06-2009 10:36am

Two seat garden bench, english style. I'm trying to figure out what the best wood i can afford is. Unfortunatley it is probably going to end up as red deal Which isn't bad but I would prefer a hard wood. The plan I am working from is a garden bench from Fine woodworking a couple of months ago but I will be modifying it slightly. Also give that I don't have a morticer I will be doing alot of the mortices by hand or with a little help from the drill press. There are lots

Fingalian · 04-06-2009 11:29am

Ennisa,is that the Lutyens bench? Is red deal weatherproof?

ennisa · 04-06-2009 12:38pm

fingalian, I'm not sure what the name of it is. It's the asian styled one with the horizontal piece in the centre of the back of the bench. It is made from teak in the magazine! Red deal is not weather proof no, i will have to give it a good coat of outdoor varnish and then start saving up to make a hardwood one before this on disintegrates in the irish climate!

Double Barrel · 11-06-2009 9:16pm

Fingalian wrote: »

Can any of you explain why 90% of circular saws have the motor on the left and the blade on the right when most of us are right handed? You have to lean over the friggin thing to watch the cut lineIs it something to do with the way the armature on the motor is wound ? is it cheaper to make em that way?

I have to think it is a matter of trade off's. Horses for races. They both have advantages and short comings.
The production saws in the Americas are worm drive and left blade, that says something. They are heavy but if one is ripping timbers or sheet goods a left blade worm drive (gears) is the cats meow - good blade & line visibility and hand & arm directly behind the blade allow excellent control.

You generally cut the waste-smaller piece off and save the larger supported piece, so the saw with the motor on the left, blade right lets the table ride on the larger piece giving more stability but not a better view.
In other words with the blade on the right you can hold the lumber with your left hand keep the saw in your right (for right handers) and have most of the saw resting on the keeper side of the timber and let the waste fall away. If one is cross cutting to length framing lumber on sawhorses, the right blade might have an advantage.

Fingalian · 12-06-2009 1:15pm

Sheet goods,Yep that is my problem, I'm cutting long arcs out of 16x4 sheets of ply. Ryobi make a small cordless saw but by the time you add the battery and charger it ends up being around €300. I've used worm drive Skils and cordless Makitas in the States.Super Tools, but out of my budget for current project. I ending up buying a yoke for a €100 called an Exhact Saw (spelling might be wrong) in B&Q ....needed it in a hurry. It is like a mini grinder with a small carbide tipped circular saw , not bad , kerf is only about 2mm but the on/off switch is sh**te. Oh well you gets what you pay for:(

SpitfireIV · 13-06-2009 6:42pm

Heres my latest piece of work. It was a wedding present for my brother and sis in law. It was made for there second child whose to come along later in the year. The crib was made from ash and walnut. For more info on it see the thread below. I couldnt post about it here as it was a surprise present and I wasnt sure if my brother looked in at boards or not

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32553

If I get time I might put together a more detailed thread on it here with more 'work in progress' pictures etc.

Double Barrel · 13-06-2009 8:41pm

Croppy,

Your Great Great Great ........ Great Gran nieces & nephews will also enjoy the rock.

Well done.

aerosol · 13-06-2009 10:12pm

Beautiful Croppy:D A fine future heirloom.

I've not had a chance to do much in my shop lately,my third(and most defo last!!) child was a month old yesterday.a boy at last;)He could do with a lovely rocking crib....

Fingalian · 13-06-2009 10:32pm

Lovely work Croppy, I like the way you laminated the the rockers with the walnut in the middle, it defines the curve very well.Any recommendations for a basic set of carving tools....just for doing the stuff like your Celtic knotwork? Do you use riffler files for the deep relief work? Thanks.
F

SpitfireIV · 14-06-2009 11:57pm

Double Barrel wrote: »

Croppy,

Your Great Great Great ........ Great Gran nieces & nephews will also enjoy the rock. Well done.

aerosol wrote: »

Beautiful Croppy:D A fine future heirloom.

I've not had a chance to do much in my shop lately,my third(and most defo last!!) child was a month old yesterday.a boy at last;)He could do with a lovely rocking crib....

Thanks DB and aerosol. You know, when I making the crib I was just focused on getting it done and getting something nice made for a present, it wasnt until people seen it done and remarked on how it would become an heirloom and probably be passed down the family that it really struck me. Its quite humbling to think that something you made may stay in the family and be used long after you've kicked the bucket :P. I like that thought

Fingalian wrote: »

Lovely work Croppy, I like the way you laminated the the rockers with the walnut in the middle, it defines the curve very well.Any recommendations for a basic set of carving tools....just for doing the stuff like your Celtic knotwork? Do you use riffler files for the deep relief work? Thanks.
F

Thanks also Fingalian. I must admit that the majority of the crib just happened by chance. I had intended on making a swinging crib but couldnt settle on a design I liked, so at the last minute thought 'feck it, I'll go the simpler route and make a rocking crib!'. So I was literally making it up as I went along and with what felt or looked right at the time

.

As for the carvings all I used on the carvings was a half inch chisel, a bent 10mm chisel and a 6mm v tool. Nothing too fancy. There are sets of chisels availible, but to be honest you'd be best off selecting a few seperate chisels to start off with because you'd never use all the chisels in the set. A few gouges of various sizes, a v tool or too and a bent chisel would get you well under way! But then it depends on what kind of carving you're looking to do really.

jack of all · 15-06-2009 12:09am

Beautiful work CroppyBoy, a lot of hours went into it I'm sure.

ennisa · 15-06-2009 4:18pm

Croppy that is fantastic. I love walnut and the finish and colours just set's it off lovely against the ash. It has that wow factor that I love in a well done project, I'm still in the chess board and side table category at the moment but sure I have a lifetime to go yet

How did you bend the rockers?

Did you do all the design yourself or did you work to/modify and existing plan?

Double Barrel · 15-06-2009 7:02pm

"So I was literally making it up as I went along and with what felt or looked right at the time ...."

Croppy,

The real secret here is creativity, for some people inner enjoyment and self expression are more important and more gratifying. As long as it is honest, it is legitimate.

SpitfireIV · 15-06-2009 9:13pm

jack of all wrote: »

Beautiful work CroppyBoy, a lot of hours went into it I'm sure.

A couple of hours, yes

, didnt time it unfortunately, but I'd imagine all together it'd be a weeks work more or less.

ennisa wrote: »

Croppy that is fantastic. I love walnut and the finish and colours just set's it off lovely against the ash. It has that wow factor that I love in a well done project, I'm still in the chess board and side table category at the moment but sure I have a lifetime to go yet How did you bend the rockers?

Did you do all the design yourself or did you work to/modify and existing plan?

Thanks ennisa

. Chess board and side table stage? Is that a recognised stage in the woodwork game? I've made neither as of yet, I'm sure you'd be well able to make such a crib, sure dont we have the same planer/thicknesser?!

The rockers were made from 4 stripes of ash and the centre strip of walnut. I cut them a foot or so longer than was needed and at 25 x 6mm planed. I settled on the curve I wanted and cut out the curve on a piece of MDF and used this as the former, both a male and female part.

I soaked the strips in boiling water for 20 mins or so, stacked them in the order they were going (ash, ash, walnut, ash, ash) and put them into the former, clamped it up good and tight and dryed off the wood with a hairdryer. That was then left over night, next day I opened the former, took out the strips and glued them all, then, put them back in the former until the following day, at which stage the glue should be well set and the strips taken up the curve.

You will lose a little of the curve once you remove it from the clamp, unless the curve is being held it will open a little.

The design is my own, rocking cribs are a much of a muchness, so its by no means unique, but its from my head.

Double Barrel wrote: »

Croppy,

The real secret here is creativity, for some people inner enjoyment and self expression are more important and more gratifying. As long as it is honest, it is legitimate.

Self expression, there is the term that I have to get used to, I find that when making objects that I'm far too conservative in my ideas and style, I need to start freeing up a little and being more creative and wild!

I've had some interest from a local nursery shop owner into the crib, she'd like to have one to put in the shop and see what the reaction is to it. She was a little unsure as she doesnt do local handmade stuff, but i guess its worth a try. Looks like I'll be making another crib shortly so!

ennisa · 16-06-2009 4:52pm

thanks for the info croppy, chess board/side table is a recognised stage, it's just above spice rack/bird house and below drawer chest/morris chair

good luck with the local nursery shop, out of interest and only if you don't mind answering, how would you decide what to charge for one made the same as what you have done? I understand no two would be the same but just for the sake of curiosity.

SpitfireIV · 17-06-2009 2:50pm

ennisa wrote: »

thanks for the info croppy, chess board/side table is a recognised stage, it's just above spice rack/bird house and below drawer chest/morris chair

good luck with the local nursery shop, out of interest and only if you don't mind answering, how would you decide what to charge for one made the same as what you have done? I understand no two would be the same but just for the sake of curiosity.

Ennisa, its a hard thing to put a price on such a piece, I didnt make it with a price in mind, but, I guess if I were forced I'd imagine I'd have to ask for at least €500, basically a weeks work.

Now, with regard to the price, the Eigse festival is currently on here in town, and there is a great display of green, traditional and contemporary chairs on display (I have some pics, I'll put them up later). The prices for some of those pieces were pretty high! You wouldnt have got any of them for under the 500 mark, even ones priced in the 600 - 800 range were relatively simple.

Fortunately you, I and the others furniture makers/craftspeople here can understand the price because we have an idea of the amount of time and effort that has gone into the piece, so its not as shocking to us as the layman off the street whom cant believe there eyes and may think 'sure I'd get a cheaper chair in arromount or land of furniture!', and perhaps rightly so, we have to look after the pennies too

. I think the 'celtic tiger' has reduced our appreciation and expections from a piece of furniture, in the last number of years furniture was cheap and expendable, flatpack and 'self assembly' from some unknown workshop or factory in Mexico or the far east. Certainly not something you'd pass down from generation to generation, we're gonna have to change peoples perceptions of the value of furnishings

maybe even revive the arts and crafts movement??!

:pac:

jack of all · 18-06-2009 1:50pm

I went to see the chairs in Shamrock Plaza yesterday, some of them were very nice- I like the "green wood" chairs myself. As you say most of these were around €600, which I wasn't surprised at; I think €500 is a little low for your piece Croppy, it will be passed onto future generations.

ennisa · 20-06-2009 3:56pm

Croppy,
I have to agree with Jack that €500 seems a little low for something of that quality and beauty. It might be a weeks work and €500 might be a weeks pay for what you do now but that does not mean that the object is not worth more than that. I was and am still an avid recreational photographer and discovered as part of that, that if you don't price your work high enough then people don't value it as much as they should. The only indication that they have of the amount of work that went into something is the price. Because they don't have the skills, time or inclination to do it. And don't think that a weeks work went into something like that because it wasn't a week. it's all the projects that you have done up to now that refined your skill to this point and will continue to refine it on into the future. Every mortive and tennon. Each test or whimsical carving that you did or all the time with the fore and smoothing planes that allowed you to finish the wood to the degree needed to be able to hand it to a family member as a wedding present and as an heirloom.
They would get a cheaper chair in the land o' furniture but the clue is in the question. 'cheaper'. They would also be giving out about the chair from the moment it started to sag or split and what is the gum chewing summer student working in the land ' furniture going to do? Shrug his shoulders and offer another 'cheap' replacement. I have made only one or two things for people but I was present for every moment of that item from the day it was conceived and designed (often not as conciously as that) in my head and then put together and delivered. If something goes wrong with that then I am over there to find out what the problem is and the best way to sort it out yet. There has never been anything significant as the pieces were small and simple but I wasn't about to stand there and shrug my shoulders and offer some crocodile tears. Factor that into your price as well.
The celtic tiger and globalisation have come together to allow people to buy cheap furniture at a cheap price and then throw it away and get some more when either it has broken or they have lost interest in it. And while I hate that I have to say that I would have next to no furniture in my house without that and I am pretty sure that the wife would not be so pleased having to wait for me to skill up to the point where I can start to make things that don't look like I found them in a skip. The problem is that, as you say, very few people other than those that know a woodworker or have done/tried it themselves know the difference. Or even realise how much more is involved making something out of solid wood as opposed to making them out of veneered MDF. A lot of people don't care. If it looks like a duck and quacks like oak then what do they care. The Jone's next door will never know that the 'long boy' coffee table is made from walnut veneer. Or, heaven forfend,, just plastic imitation wood.
I love arts and crafts, I love the mortice and tennons. I love the solid, square, reliable look to it. I like how deceptively simple a Morris chair looks until you realise there are 40 or so mortice and tennon joints in a basic one. I love that you could use it to beat somebody to death with and then sit back down.
Would I like to revive the arts and crafts movement? You bet your ass I would.

jack of all · 21-06-2009 11:21am

Great post ennisa!

Double Barrel · 21-06-2009 7:58pm

ennisa, :cool: post.

Alison Ospina's whimsical chair at the Éigse Festival.

"My hands work as if they had knowledge of their own, creating a chair that goes beyond functionality, into the realms of grace and beauty."
Alison Ospina, Green Wood Chairs

ennisa · 21-06-2009 9:38pm

I'm always amazed at how strong chairs have to be while also trying to look light and 'whimsical' the amount of load on the joints that join the chair seat to the back legs is enormous. The stress when chubby uncle Bert tucks his thumbs into the waist of his baloon seat jeans and tips the chair back onto the back legs so that he can let rip a good belch after the christmas dinner is much more than any single joint in a dining table has to contend with. Not to mention book cases and furniture that does not actually have to take the strain of any kind of shifting load. I admire anybody that can combine that strength with joints that are almost always at odd or compound angles and then also has to make it comfortable enough so that you are not contravening the geneva convention on torture at the same time. And then to do it 5 more times to match the dinning table. Tough work. When we bought the house we got an 5' oak table with 6 chairs for €600 or around that price. There is no way that I could make that for that price based on the time involved. The bed was the same price (including mattress), King size bed with head and foot board, some kind if pine I reckon, it is hard to tell with all the stain that they slopped onto it while trting to make it look like cherry. I could make that for half the price in about 2 weeks. And out of real cherry.

This seems a little ass about face to me.

Thanks for the thumbs up on the last post. What I forgot to mention of course is that while I would love to revive the arts and crafts movement, I don't yet have the skills. But of course I have time and a lot of good reference pieces and materials. And hey, if nobody wants what I make then I can always use it to beat people to death with.

aerosol · 21-06-2009 11:28pm

Many wise words Ennisa;):cool:

I've the plans for one of these stools for years,just not the space to grow one,just stumbled upon the site again... http://www.grown-furniture.co.uk/index.htmlI must now get it planted with the kids in the in-laws garden.

You can "grow" some cool furniture,probaly in about the same time it would take me to make a crib like croppys!!;):o
http://www.arborsmith.com/krubsack.html

ennisa · 22-06-2009 10:44am

I love those weird little forms that they use to train the tress. I can imagine stumbling across a load of them in the forest somewhere after the apocolypse and trying to figure out what the hell they are for

SpitfireIV · 29-06-2009 11:43pm

ennisa wrote: »

Croppy,
I have to agree with Jack that €500 seems a little low for something of that quality and beauty. It might be a weeks work and €500 might be a weeks pay for what you do now but that does not mean that the object is not worth more than that. I was and am still an avid recreational photographer and discovered as part of that, that if you don't price your work high enough then

Great post indeed Ennisa, you have the fire burning in you!

Going to have a go at another crib this week hopefully, something a little different to the last one and featuring a little more steam bending and a bit of metal work too.........hopefully.

Have any of ye guys ever had any contact or dealings with the 'Crafts Council of Ireland'??

http://www.ccoi.ie/

Check out the furniture makers, some funky stuff in there!
http://www.ccoi.ie/portfolio/

Click on 'Main Menu' and then 'Furniture'

Fingalian · 30-06-2009 12:20am

Afaik they have an annual show in the RDS. My aunt is is a quilter and she had nothing but praise for them. Flicked through the furniture,the adzed serving table by Michael Bell is very impressive,steady hand there or what! Real workmanship of risk. I liked his chainsaw detailing too.

Offcuts - the general chat thread

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