Are Irish people really so friendly, and is Ireland really such a good place to live?

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 2:58am

I suppose the day one starts to take the essentialist concept of 'national characteristics' seriously, or to move it away from the public house counter, one is on the slippery slope. How can anyone possibly generalise about a society in this way? The Irish, like everyone else, are likely to be friendly to those they know; many of us are likely to be friendly to those we think can be useful to us financially or otherwise; some of us may be friendly to some or all strangers. In this, we are probably, give or take, much like everyone else, with our behaviour 'graphable' on a similar curve to that of the behaviour of any other nationality.

Now, as for the rhetoric and self-serving and self-flattering belief that we are unusually friendly, research has shown that this derives from the widely-disseminated documented experience of wealthy returned Yanks engaging with Killarney jarveys, with boatmen, with hotel porters, with beaters, with barmen and with gillies. The sight of half-crowns glinting in a Yank's paw in the sunshine of the 1950's made many a grumpy Irishman friendly, often for the first time in his life.

prinz · 14-11-2011 1:35pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Funny enough this is something I've heard many times from foreign people when they discuss Ireland and the Irish. Especially foreign women for some reason. Two non Irish exes of mine who lived here for many years found it very difficult to find and/or sustain friendships with Irish women for some reason. .....

As an Irish person I've found this myself. It can actually be hard to make new friends in Ireland, and by that I mean real friends, not drinking buddies or casual acquaintances.. that you might have a bit of chit-chat with. From the foreign female side, my wife has found it near impossible to make friends here (she has a few but it's mostly OH's of my friends).. she has made more male friends than female here also. Not sure what it is, but she has often remarked on the superficiality of the Irish, she found people will be your bestest best bud one day and barely acknowledge you a week later. The drink doesn't help in this area either. Overall she has been at the receiving end of some very negative behaviour and reactions from some Irish, particularly women.

southsiderosie wrote: »

In retrospect, I had a lot of casual Irish acquaintances when I lived there, but not really any good friends that I have kept in contact with.....

+1, this would be it. My wife had some friends she saw regularly when she was here, but since she has gone back abroad some of them have cut all contact with her, ignoring texts, calls, emails. It's like out of sight, out of mind.

southsiderosie wrote: »

I found much of the rental housing stock in Dublin to be atrocious, the public transport was not particularly good, and despite all of the costs, public services aren't great either..

Agreed on all counts.

looksee · 14-11-2011 3:23pm

^^^ After 40 years of living in Ireland I find that rather reassuring. I have told myself for a long time that its not just 'me' - I have non-Irish friends - but there is definitely a barrier.

srsly78 · 14-11-2011 3:50pm

Tweener wrote: »

Thanks for your contributions to this thread...I actually currently live in Germany, and can't wait to escape, to Ireland or to Switzerland (like many skilled Germans do...I hate "Goodbye Germany" on TV, because they talk about Germans who have emigrated, but always try to portray their new host countries as inferior to Germany.). I've met some nice people, and some natural landscapes that I've seen here are really beautiful, but...I've never been in an environment with so much - Sadness - Grumpy unfriendly and aggressive people - Mobbing in the workplace - A general sense of denial of problems (for example, even here there are scumbags and knackers, both Germans and foreigners...but of course nobody wants to talk about them...they exist only in the UK and in Ireland). In other countries, people know that there is a lot of **** going on (alcoholism, drugs, crime, corruption, etc...), but they have the honesty to admit it, and talk about it. In Germany...no. Everything here is clean and perfect, everybody is honest and reliable, there is no corruption...at least in the delusional minds of many people. I've lost the count of how many times I've seen drunk and scumbags here, even in rich areas (I'm not talking about the economically-depressed East). And here they are really dangerous, not like the "wannabes" in Ireland, because here they are fueled with anger and repressed negative emotions. And the wages here, in certain sectors are scandalously low (Google "400€ minijobs"), and there is no minimum wage. The economy might be growing at 3% (all exports, since the average German has to live a frugal life to survive), but high unemployment and poverty are still alive and can be felt and seen, and only a few riches become richer. No wonder that many skilled Germans flock to other countries (but nobody wants to talk about this, of course...). But of course many Germans are too focused on blaming other countries, rather than do an analysis of the dirtiness under their carpet. Like when this year there was an outbreak of food poisoning from a German farm that killed tens of people, but first they blamed Spanish cucumbers (the "latinos"), before admitting that the poisoning came from a German farm. Sorry for the rant, but what gets me really nervous is this sense of superiority, that makes them unable to see the problems in THEIR country.

I'm an Irish person that has lived for some time on the continent (1.5 years in Brussels, followed by 1 year in Germany). I disagree with your assessment. Ireland + the UK are infested with knackers and scumbags. Germany was indeed a clean well-run paradise in comparison. At least you guys don't have to worry about your natives, we do...

On another note, when I first arrived in Belgium I was shocked at the lack of fatties. They are pretty rare in francophone countries it seems. Germany is another story tho :pac:

prinz · 14-11-2011 4:23pm

srsly78 wrote: »

I'm an Irish person that has lived for some time on the continent (1.5 years in Brussels, followed by 1 year in Germany). I disagree with your assessment. Ireland + the UK are infested with knackers and scumbags. Germany was indeed a clean well-run paradise in comparison. At least you guys don't have to worry about your natives, we do...

I've spent about 2 years across Germany, Belgium and France and I'd have to agree. Yes there are scumbags and chancers in these countries too but not once in my time in any of them was I ever subjected to any sort of anti-social 'bullying' for want of a better word that is a regular occurence in Dublin in my personal experience.

Darkginger · 14-11-2011 7:32pm

Moved to Ireland from the UK in 1999. I find the people here to be far friendlier than they were back 'home' - and unlike others, I really haven't encountered any kind of barrier between them and me. I've made three very close female friends during my time here (the friendships have lapsed a bit in recent years due to them moving away), and my husband has a couple of close male (Irish) friends too, and he's another Brit.

We're out in the rural wilds, and it's true that public transport is a bit of a non-starter. Without our own transport we'd be a lot more isolated (and probably a lot fitter, due to all the walking!). I can't find the wide variety of goods in shops here that I could in the UK (even in places like Tesco), and I'm still bewildered by the paucity of variety in Irish cuts of meat - where are all these lambs with eight legs and no shoulders? The quality of Irish-produced food though, is beyond wonderful, and I find it easy to be 'holier than thou' with my mates back in the UK when we're talking about food miles and so on

I feel there's less state intrusion in your life in Ireland, compared to the UK - I suppose council tax and the proliferation of town centre CCTV (in the UK) are largely responsible for that. I just feel freer here.

Moving when we did, we managed to get a small house on half an acre of land from the proceeds of a two bedroom flat back in the UK. I could certainly not afford our lifestyle were I to attempt to move back, and I shudder when I look at what we could afford - mainly terraced houses or flats - I don't think I could even go back to semi-detached living after the space we have here.

My experience of moving to Ireland has been largely positive, with a few negative aspects, but not enough to counteract the sheer joy of living in such a beautiful place - which I think is enhanced by the weather that others may dislike

Having said all that, my experience is very much of rural Ireland - I wouldn't be happy in a city, and Dublin seems so different to the rest of the country. I do tend to romanticise it all a bit, so unless you're the sort of person who sees a challenge as opposed to an obstacle, maybe your experience would be less positive. I can only speak for myself, and I think moving here was the best decision we ever made. Wouldn't leave for the world.

x in the city · 14-11-2011 8:00pm

you can judge how 'friendly' a place is by the simple task of asking for directions.

no iffs, no butts just a basic dialogue.

try this in london and you would do very well to get a look in the eye let alone directions anywhere. London is one of the most rudest cities in the world by a long shot. Tokyo with a population of far greater than london puts it to shame.

dublin is not much better, you would do well to get directions at all and most likely would be met with a ...ugggghhhh

on the otherhand corkonians would most certainly go out of their way like.

as for anyone in kerry or the west they would probably invite you in for a cuppa.

this is basically the way things are in Ireland.

I am Irish and from the country but have long left, no jobs.. its desperate.

Im well qualified, but trying to get work in my field was impossible. alas thousands like myself have done the same.

IMO in the 80s/90s Ireland was a much nicer place to live, its gone all rat assed now for quite a while, Dubs with their superiority complex doesnt help things.

skregs · 14-11-2011 8:08pm

Tweener wrote: »

Thanks for your contributions to this thread...I actually currently live in Germany, and can't wait to escape, to Ireland or to Switzerland (like many skilled Germans do...I hate "Goodbye Germany" on TV, because they talk about Germans who have emigrated, but always try to portray their new host countries as inferior to Germany.). I've met some nice people, and some natural landscapes that I've seen here are really beautiful, but...I've never been in an environment with so much - Sadness - Grumpy unfriendly and aggressive people - Mobbing in the workplace - A general sense of denial of problems (for example, even here there are scumbags and knackers, both Germans and foreigners...but of course nobody wants to talk about them...they exist only in the UK and in Ireland). In other countries, people know that there is a lot of **** going on (alcoholism, drugs, crime, corruption, etc...), but they have the honesty to admit it, and talk about it. In Germany...no. Everything here is clean and perfect, everybody is honest and reliable, there is no corruption...at least in the delusional minds of many people. I've lost the count of how many times I've seen drunk and scumbags here, even in rich areas (I'm not talking about the economically-depressed East). And here they are really dangerous, not like the "wannabes" in Ireland, because here they are fueled with anger and repressed negative emotions. And the wages here, in certain sectors are scandalously low (Google "400€ minijobs"), and there is no minimum wage. The economy might be growing at 3% (all exports, since the average German has to live a frugal life to survive), but high unemployment and poverty are still alive and can be felt and seen, and only a few riches become richer. No wonder that many skilled Germans flock to other countries (but nobody wants to talk about this, of course...). But of course many Germans are too focused on blaming other countries, rather than do an analysis of the dirtiness under their carpet. Like when this year there was an outbreak of food poisoning from a German farm that killed tens of people, but first they blamed Spanish cucumbers (the "latinos"), before admitting that the poisoning came from a German farm. Sorry for the rant, but what gets me really nervous is this sense of superiority, that makes them unable to see the problems in THEIR country.

Just so's you know, Irish people appreciate a good paragraph every now and again.

x in the city · 14-11-2011 9:11pm

skregs wrote: »

Just so's you know, Irish people appreciate a good paragraph every now and again.

lmao.

*my eyes...

MyKeyG · 14-11-2011 10:50pm

skregs wrote: »

Just so's you know, Irish people appreciate a good paragraph every now and again.

Ah paragraphs...a great bunch of lads.

texidub · 14-11-2011 11:17pm

Having lived in the U.S. on and off for a decade, I have to agree with southersiderosie that in general the people there are more open than Irish people. I think the size of the respective countries might have something to do with it. (And where you end up in the U.S.)

I'm saddened to hear that people come here and some feel they have made no real friends. I've made true friends in the U.S. --people I genuinely miss when I am back here-- and have always been made to feel extremely welcome.

Nowhere is perfect (and generalizations are always false, including this one), but I find Irish society quite clannish and built on conservative notions of respectability, class, and 'who you know' that I find really distasteful. (Of course the U.S. has racial problems which produce similar results.)

Of course, having being raised in Dublin, the place kinda bores the arse off me sometimes; life is short and there is a whole world to explore...

Lived in Mexico City for a while too and a friendlier people you couldn't meet. There is always the chance of being kidnapped and killed of course, but that eh.. 'puts a spring in your step' as it were, which I enjoyed

Would I recommend Ireland? For certain people, certainly! It all depends where you are coming from.. what you want to leave behind in your home country... and what you intend to do when you get here.

slowburner · 15-11-2011 1:35pm

prinz wrote: »

As an Irish person I've found this myself. It can actually be hard to make new friends in Ireland, and by that I mean real friends, not drinking buddies or casual acquaintances.. that you might have a bit of chit-chat with. From the foreign female side, my wife has found it near impossible to make friends here (she has a few but it's mostly OH's of my friends).. she has made more male friends than female here also. Not sure what it is, but she has often remarked on the superficiality of the Irish, she found people will be your bestest best bud one day and barely acknowledge you a week later. The drink doesn't help in this area either. Overall she has been at the receiving end of some very negative behaviour and reactions from some Irish, particularly women.

+1, this would be it. My wife had some friends she saw regularly when she was here, but since she has gone back abroad some of them have cut all contact with her, ignoring texts, calls, emails. It's like out of sight, out of mind.

Agreed on all counts.

looksee wrote: »

^^^ After 40 years of living in Ireland I find that rather reassuring. I have told myself for a long time that its not just 'me' - I have non-Irish friends - but there is definitely a barrier.

Genuinely and with all due respect, is the ease or difficulty in making friends not a function of 'time of life' rather than nationality?
The older you are, the more difficult it is to make new friends. The older you are, the more set you are in your ways and the less likely it is that your ways will dovetail with someone else.

One very negative difference I notice socially, between the Irish and most other nationalities, is the tendency to say things along the lines of "We'll have to meet up sometime" and to actually have no intention of doing so.
A bit like "Don't call me, I'll call you''.
I was on holiday in France many, many years ago where our family befriended a young Englishman. To tell the truth, he was a touch odd and became a bit clingy after a while. Eventually, we managed to get away and my father told him that if ever he was in Ireland to come and stay with us. To our horror, he arrived at the front door, suitcases in hand, two months later - I can't remember how long he stayed or what the parting was like.

I think when any other nationality extends an invitation - they mean it.

JackieChan · 15-11-2011 1:59pm

x in the city wrote: »

you can judge how 'friendly' a place is by the simple task of asking for directions.

no iffs, no butts just a basic dialogue.

try this in london and you would do very well to get a look in the eye let alone directions anywhere. London is one of the most rudest cities in the world by a long shot. Tokyo with a population of far greater than london puts it to shame.

dublin is not much better, you would do well to get directions at all and most likely would be met with a ...ugggghhhh

on the otherhand corkonians would most certainly go out of their way like.

as for anyone in kerry or the west they would probably invite you in for a cuppa.

this is basically the way things are in Ireland.

I am Irish and from the country but have long left, no jobs.. its desperate.

Im well qualified, but trying to get work in my field was impossible. alas thousands like myself have done the same.

IMO in the 80s/90s Ireland was a much nicer place to live, its gone all rat assed now for quite a while, Dubs with their superiority complex doesnt help things.

I'm surprised by this.
Is this your own personal experience of asking directions? I'm from the midlands but have never had problems asking for directions in Dublin.

prinz · 15-11-2011 2:01pm

slowburner wrote: »

Genuinely and with all due respect, is the ease or difficulty in making friends not a function of 'time of life' rather than nationality?The older you are, the more difficult it is to make new friends. The older you are, the more set you are in your ways and the less likely it is that your ways will dovetail with someone else

I don't think so. My time of life hasn't stopped me making friends with other nationalities with a variety of age groups. It's easy to make friends in Ireland, but it depends on what you define as a friend I suppose. To me a 'real friend' is someone I trust, could share anything with, could depend on absolutely if I needed it etc.. and those are few and far between. It's far easier in Ireland to acquire fair weather friends. I have most experience in Germany and tbh I find they fall into two groups relatively quickly (a) a real friend as I would define it or (b) an acquaintence of sorts, friendly but not friend.

I find it harder to get people in Ireland into the real friend bracket. There's almost an ingrained natural supicion in Ireland, avoid any deep stuff e.g. deep and meaningfuls are for you gf/bf/wife/family, not for your friends. Friends are for banter and the craic. To me they should be for both, I just find it difficult to develop relationships in Ireland where I feel the former is possible if needed.

slowburner wrote: »

One very negative difference I notice socially, between the Irish and most other nationalities, is the tendency to say things along the lines of "We'll have to meet up sometime" and to actually have no intention of doing so.
A bit like "Don't call me, I'll call you''..

+1, hate that, and you've hit the nail on the head as far as my mrs goes. She takes what people say at face value, and she can't understand why people would say things and not mean it. Along with a lack of punctuality. 'I'll be there at 7' - AKA 8.30....maybe...

slowburner · 15-11-2011 3:31pm

I find it harder to get people in Ireland into the real friend bracket. There's almost an ingrained natural supicion in Ireland, avoid any deep stuff e.g. deep and meaningfuls are for you gf/bf/wife/family, not for your friends. Friends are for banter and the craic. To me they should be for both, I just find it difficult to develop relationships in Ireland where I feel the former is possible if needed.

I suppose that this suspicion is a product of a history which is fairly well unique in a European context - it is definitely a real trait though.
Oddly enough, I have found that the degree of suspicion varies considerably from county to county and that it is highest in rural areas which border major urban areas.

Along with a lack of punctuality. 'I'll be there at 7' - AKA 8.30....maybe...

This lack of punctuality I neither like nor understand - it is simple, silly, arrogance.

Are Irish people really so friendly, and is Ireland really such a good place to live?

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