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Quite possibly the best documentary I’ve viewed in ages.

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Comments

  • #92
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    He scored well in the radar operator course he did in the military base and was chosen based on that.

    You're doing standard garden variety conspiracy theorist stuff here. Assuming its a conspiracy and then erratically looking for info to suit that agenda. Thats not how it works unfortunately.

    There hundreds of radar operators in the US military. Scoring well doesn't mean you be given the job. You have to show you can keep things secret. Oswald was intelligence. There no way he be allowed to travel to the Soviet Union if he wasn't. He saw the advanced technology and could easily have given the tech knowledge to the Soviets.


  • #93
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    The bullet was a 30.06 calibre, that hit General Walker. Was never traced to the rifle in Dallas. The bullets in Dallas are 6.5mm.

    You right about the mart, i thought it was close to Love Field.
    Have you the full newpaper article what to see the date on it and when it was published?

    Its available online and is common knowledge.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    There hundreds of radar operators in the US military. Scoring well doesn't mean you be given the job. You have to show you can keep things secret. Oswald was intelligence. There no way he be allowed to travel to the Soviet Union if he wasn't. He saw the advanced technology and could easily have given the tech knowledge to the Soviets.

    He did give info to the Soviets. Nothing they didn't know already so they tried to deport him and thats when he tried to kill himself.

    They don't give out "intelligence" jobs (whatever that means) to 18 year olds. And they don't send spies to the Soviet Union with discoverable US military history experience, US names, US accents, US passports and pre authorised visas with their real name and the fact they're American. Kinda defeats the purpose.


  • #94
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Its available online and is common knowledge.



    He did give info to the Soviets. Nothing they didn't know already so they tried to deport him and thats when he tried to kill himself.

    Where exactly? Save time for me, post a link to the paper.

    Oswald was intelligence. Which opens him up to be recruited as a spy. It explains why he travelled to the Soviet Union and came home and was left alone. He likely feed the Soviets fake info. It's unknown, did the Soviets know about his involvement with the U-2 project?


  • #95
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Where exactly? Save time for me, post a link to the paper.

    It would be nice to see you do your own research.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Oswald was intelligence. Which opens him up to be recruited as a spy. It explains why he travelled to the Soviet Union and came home and was left alone. He likely feed the Soviets fake info. It's unknown, did the Soviets know about his involvement with the U-2 project

    Again, you're starting from an assumption and working backwards to meet that assumption. Its not logical.


  • #96
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »

    They don't give out "intelligence" jobs (whatever that means) to 18 year olds.

    What age was Snowden when he worked for NSA ( early 20s) Oswald went to Soviet Union aged 20.

    You forget Oswald was involved in civil air patrol at a very young age. He spend most of his life in an orphanage. He was a hard nut already.

    Whos knows someone in intelligence may have noticed he had maturity for someone this young, could keep a secret, and did not crack easily under pressure. And he was bright. Perfect candidate for intelligence field work.


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  • #97
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,258 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Man see's a documentary which he find's very interesting...so interesting in fact, he watches it for more than 3 hour's and is so impressed with it that he share's it with other people on a public forum, and triggers response's which beggar's belief...anyone would think that he was selling ring side seat's to a public performance..... and therefore must justify it !!! All anyone has to do is to watch 5-10 mins of the documentary, and see what they think, if they find it interesting well and good, watch it all, if not, switch over to something else,no problem. For me,all I can say is " Thank You" for sharing.


  • #98
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    It would be nice to see you do your own research.



    Again, you're starting from an assumption and working backwards to meet that assumption. Its not logical.

    You provided this paper as evidence Oswald knew the route four days before. This is a assumption. I just want to see the date the paper was printed to confirm that:confused:

    Why would you overlook the evidence Oswald was stationed at CIA base in Japan. And we know he was radar operator there spying on the Soviet Union. U-2 flights is a top secret project. It not a giant leap to believe Oswald role was intelligence gathering and that requires security clearances at the very highest level.


  • #99
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    You provided this paper as evidence Oswald knew the route four days before. This is a assumption. I just want to see the date the paper was printed to confirm that:confused:

    Its not an assumption. Its fact. Why were all the people out on those specific streets to see JFK? Because the route was published on November 19th.

    You could have easily googled this and found it yourself but as it doesn't suit your agenda, you didn't bother.

    dthtue.gif
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Why would you overlook the evidence Oswald was stationed at CIA base in Japan. And we know he was radar operator there spying on Russia. U-2 flights is a top secret project. It not a giant leap to believe Oswald role was intelligence gathering and that requires security clearances at the very highest level.

    I haven't overlooked it.

    Yes it is a giant leap to believe Oswalds role was intelligence gathering and that requires security clearances at the very highest level. Theres no evidence whatsoever to support it. He didn't have top secret clearance. He was 17 and 18 years of age. He shot himself by accident in Japan and was also court-martialed twice. Once for the shooting and once for fighting with his Sergeant. He was demoted to private. These are not the actions of someone being recruited as a top spy. He was too young and had an attitude problem. These are facts.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    What age was Snowden when he worked for NSA ( early 20s) Oswald went to Soviet Union aged 20.

    You forget Oswald was involved in civil air patrol at a very young age.

    I did not forget that.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Whos knows someone in intelligence may have noticed he had maturity for someone this young, could keep a secret, and did not crack easily under pressure. And he was bright. Perfect candidate for intelligence field work.

    Again, no evidence at all to support that. Do you think the CIA were sending spies to Moscow by train with their real identities and passports?!


  • #100
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Its not an assumption. Its fact. Why were all the people out on those specific streets to see JFK? Because the route was published on November 19th.

    You could have easily googled this and found it yourself but as it doesn't suit your agenda, you didn't bother.

    dthtue.gif



    I haven't overlooked it.

    Yes it is a giant leap to believe Oswalds role was intelligence gathering and that requires security clearances at the very highest level. Theres no evidence whatsoever to support it. He didn't have top secret clearance. He was 17 and 18 years of age. He shot himself by accident in Japan and was also court-martialed twice. Once for the shooting and once for fighting with his Sergeant. He was demoted to private. These are not the actions of someone being recruited as a top spy. He was too young and had an attitude problem. These are facts.



    I did not forget that.



    Again, no evidence at all to support that. Do you think the CIA were sending spies to Moscow by train with their real identities and passports?!

    Your assumption is he read the paper and then learned the route that way. You have know way of nothing how he learned about the route. May have heard it said at work or somewhere else in the days before Kennedy arrived?

    Debunkers like to claim he bought this Carcano rifle for killing Kennedy.  They used the link, the shooting of General Walker as evidence this rifle was used. Forgetting the bullet found at General Walker residence was not the same calibre round found in Dallas. There no evidence at all Oswald bought a Carcano rifle weeks before to Kill Kennedy and Walker. He would need to know weeks in advance the route to plan out the Kennedy killing and place himself at the TSBD for the shooting. 

    Nal you constantly ignore the supporting evidence here. Oswald tried to phone an intelligence officer in Raleigh when at the Jail in Dallas. He was reaching out to get help? We know from testimony agents at the jail would not allow the the call to go through to the intelligence officer. Oswald was likely double crossed and he figured it out when Kennedy was shot and probably tried to confront one of his handlers when caught later over the phone.

    You downplay his experience here.

    He would not be involved in U2- Flight intelligence gathering if he was a crackpot. It was a likely a cover story (sheep- dip) So he could be passed off a civilian who the military wanted to be rid off.  Oswald travelled to the Soviet Union and back again with no questions asked about his trip. Even brought over a Russian Wife., nothing odd about that.


  • #101
    Hagar7
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hagar7


    jmreire wrote: »
    Man see's a documentary which he find's very interesting...so interesting in fact, he watches it for more than 3 hour's and is so impressed with it that he share's it with other people on a public forum, and triggers response's which beggar's belief...anyone would think that he was selling ring side seat's to a public performance..... and therefore must justify it !!! All anyone has to do is to watch 5-10 mins of the documentary, and see what they think, if they find it interesting well and good, watch it all, if not, switch over to something else,no problem. For me,all I can say is " Thank You" for sharing.

    You’re welcome.:D


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  • #102
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    George von Mohrenschildt friendship is a red flag. A rich man involved in the oil industry spending time with a poor man kicked out of the marines? George ties to intelligence in the US is well known. There evidence everywhere Oswald is not what the official narratives claim him to be. He clearly was involved in more intelligence gathering after he returned from the Soviet Union and started to spy on Cuban groups. George hated the Soviets so the story he would friend a pro communist guy doesn't add up.


  • #103
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Your assumption is he read the paper and then learned the route that way. You have know way of nothing how he learned about the route. May have heard it said at work or somewhere else in the days before Kennedy arrived?

    What difference would that make? What an utterly irrelevant detail.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Debunkers like to claim he bought this Carcano rifle for killing Kennedy. 

    I've never seen anyone claim that. He bought it months before. Stupid thing to say
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    They used the link, the shooting of General Walker as evidence this rifle was used. Forgetting the bullet found at General Walker residence was not the same calibre round found in Dallas.

    Thats not true. There have been no conclusive studies done on that. All have been conflicting. You're lying again.

    Marina told the story of the Walker attempt in great detail and theres a note in Oswalds handwriting telling her what to do if he was caught.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    There no evidence at all Oswald bought a Carcano rifle weeks before to Kill Kennedy and Walker. He would need to know weeks in advance the route to plan out the Kennedy killing and place himself at the TSBD for the shooting. 

    That doesn't make any sense. Waffle.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Nal you constantly ignore the supporting evidence here. Oswald tried to phone an intelligence officer in Raleigh when at the Jail in Dallas. He was reaching out to get help? We know from testimony agents at the jail would not allow the the call to go through to the intelligence officer. Oswald was likely double crossed and he figured it out when Kennedy was shot and probably tried to confront one of his handlers when caught later over the phone.

    Nope wrong again. The amount of thing you get completely wrong is mental.

    He didn't try to call any intelligence officer. The guy worked in intelligence in WW2 and called the station drunk looking for Oswald. Switchboard operator wrote his number down but then threw it in the bin.

    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    He would not be involved in U2- Flight intelligence gathering if he was a crackpot. It was a likely a cover story (sheep- dip) So he could be passed off a civilian who the military wanted to be rid off.  Oswald travelled to the Soviet Union and back again with no questions asked about his trip. Even brought over a Russian Wife., nothing odd about that.

    The FBI had an open case on him. Read James Hostys book. Enjoyable.

    As for the rest, sheep dipping etc, no evidence. Waffle.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    George von Mohrenschildt friendship is a red flag. A rich man involved in the oil industry spending time with a poor man kicked out of the marines? George ties to intelligence in the US is well known. There evidence everywhere Oswald is not what the official narratives claim him to be. He clearly was involved in more intelligence gathering after he returned from the Soviet Union and started to spy on Cuban groups. George hated the Soviets so the story he would friend a pro communist guy doesn't add up.

    Hillside grazing. Waffle. Conspiracy bingo.


  • #104
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    What difference would that make? What an utterly irrelevant detail.



    I've never seen anyone claim that. He bought it months before. Stupid thing to say



    Thats not true. There have been no conclusive studies done on that. All have been conflicting. You're lying again.

    Marina told the story of the Walker attempt in great detail and theres a note in Oswalds handwriting telling her what to do if he was caught.



    That doesn't make any sense. Waffle.



    Nope wrong again. The amount of thing you get completely wrong is mental.

    He didn't try to call any intelligence officer. The guy worked in intelligence in WW2 and called the station drunk looking for Oswald. Switchboard operator wrote his number down but then threw it in the bin.




    The FBI had an open case on him. Read James Hostys book. Enjoyable.

    As for the rest, sheep dipping etc, no evidence. Waffle.

    Marina changed her story numerous times over the years. She believed there was no conspiracy and then changed her mind and said Lee was involved in a conspiracy and still holds that position today. Her mind is all over the place. And we know after Oswald was shot. She was coached what to say to the media. Her testimony may not be true. She wanted to stay in the US and not be deported so she defended the official narrative.

    Debunker claim is since he shot General Walker thats supporting evidence he shot Kennedy with the same rifle. Oswald only had one rifle the Carcano. No other rifle was found. The bullets don't match. It was a Dallas police report the bullet type was noted.

    House Select Committee on Assassinations in the late 1970s, established it was outgoing call and telephone operators supported that finding on the record. Two agents turned up in their office to listen. One of the operators was told to tell Oswald nobody was answering .


  • #105
    Hagar7
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hagar7


    Seems to be very argumentative recently,folk need to chill out.
    Hopefully this might give a few folk a better insight into what really happened that fateful day.
    https://jfkfacts.org/seven-years-ago-we-launched-a-blog-called-jfk-facts-these-are-29-new-facts-we-found/


  • #106
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    There no reason three telephone operators would lie about a call. The committee was still covering up for intelligence. He slipped up claiming he phoned in drunk as a prank. We know from the testimony two outgoing calls were attempted by Oswald one to a Lawyer in New York and another to this intelligence officer named John Hurt. The committee could not establish who the two agents were who be listening to the call, so the evidence was forgotten. Three telephone operators in the room said this what happened. Oswald tried to phone out.


  • #107
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    What difference would that make? What an utterly irrelevant detail.



    I've never seen anyone claim that. He bought it months before. Stupid thing to say



    Thats not true. There have been no conclusive studies done on that. All have been conflicting. You're lying again.

    Marina told the story of the Walker attempt in great detail and theres a note in Oswalds handwriting telling her what to do if he was caught.



    That doesn't make any sense. Waffle.



    Nope wrong again. The amount of thing you get completely wrong is mental.

    He didn't try to call any intelligence officer. The guy worked in intelligence in WW2 and called the station drunk looking for Oswald. Switchboard operator wrote his number down but then threw it in the bin.




    The FBI had an open case on him. Read James Hostys book. Enjoyable.

    As for the rest, sheep dipping etc, no evidence. Waffle.



    Hillside grazing. Waffle. Conspiracy bingo.

    You're deluded. Is this the kind of man who would friend a pro communist and support his activities. When they are to blame for his family dying?
    Sergey von Mohrenschildt was arrested by the Bolsheviks for anti-Communist activities.[6] He was sentenced to exile for life in Veliky Ustyug, a town in the north of Russia. Mohrenschildt later testified to the Warren Commission that while awaiting transport to Veliky Ustyug, his father had become ill. Two Jewish doctors who treated him in jail advised him to stop eating so he would appear more sickly. The doctors then told the Soviet government that Sergey was too ill to survive the trip to Veliky Ustyug and he should be allowed to stay at home to recover, under the condition that he check in weekly until he was well enough to be sent to Veliky Ustyug. The Soviet government agreed. After his release, Sergey, his wife and the young Mohrenschildt then fled to Poland in a hay wagon (Mohrenschildt's older brother Dimitri was awaiting execution, but was later released in a prisoner exchange in Poland).[7][8] During their journey, Mohrenschildt, his father and mother Alexandra contracted typhoid fever. Alexandra died of the disease shortly after the family entered Poland.[3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt


  • #108
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Hagar7 wrote: »
    Seems to be very argumentative recently,folk need to chill out.
    Hopefully this might give a few folk a better insight into what really happened that fateful day.
    https://jfkfacts.org/seven-years-ago-we-launched-a-blog-called-jfk-facts-these-are-29-new-facts-we-found/

    If a deep state group in the 60s removed a sitting president, the world deserves to know the truth. There plenty of evidence Oswald did not act alone. You have to remember here is this faction took control and shaped history then.

    Presidents who came next
    Johnson- linked to JFK murder.
    Nixon- corrupt as ****
    Ford- sat on warren commission cover up.
    Carter- unsure
    Reagan- corrupt as **** (Iran- Contra
    Bushes- another corrupt CIA head.


  • #109
    paddythere
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭paddythere


    If you liked that you will love the documentary 'Money as Debt' on youtube


  • #110
    Hagar7
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hagar7


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    If a deep state group in the 60s removed a sitting president, the world deserves to know the truth. There plenty of evidence Oswald did not act alone. You have to remember here is this faction took control and shaped history then.

    Presidents who came next
    Johnson- linked to JFK murder.
    Nixon- corrupt as ****
    Ford- sat on warren commission cover up.
    Carter- unsure
    Reagan- corrupt as **** (Iran- Contra
    Bushes- another corrupt CIA head.

    That’s a good summation CS,one thing that I’m sure you’d like,and others of course is the link I posted has a video which shocked me to the core,forget the 1st 20 minutes or so of a general broadcast,the last 10 minutes well that was something entirely different.
    It lasts 31.17 mins altogether.
    https://jfkfacts.org/whats-the-most-important-piece-of-jfk-assassination-evidence-to-surface-in-the-past-5-years/#more-7860


  • #111
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Hagar7 wrote: »
    That’s a good summation CS,one thing that I’m sure you’d like,and others of course is the link I posted has a video which shocked me to the core,forget the 1st 20 minutes or so of a general broadcast,the last 10 minutes well that was something entirely different.
    It lasts 31.17 mins altogether.
    https://jfkfacts.org/whats-the-most-important-piece-of-jfk-assassination-evidence-to-surface-in-the-past-5-years/#more-7860

    I have not seen these tapes before. Is there something said that confirms a conspiracy? Or is just a recording of different events on the day?

    Oh i see now., a comment below. This is standard cover up to not release the full audio.

    Quoting from Jeff Morley’s October 26, 2013 article in the Dallas Morning News:

    “The available tapes capture 88 minutes of conversation. Kelly notes that the flight from Dallas to take JFK’s body back to Washington took almost four hours, or 240 minutes.

    “So it is virtually certain that there were other conversations to and from Air Force One that fateful day that were recorded but have never been heard. Even after 50 years, the real-time response of the Pentagon to the violent death of a commander in chief is not part of the public record.”


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  • #112
    Hagar7
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hagar7


    I didn’t say there was tbh,there will always be theories to anything and everything.
    False flags are sadly part n parcel of everyday life I guess.


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