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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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  • Options
    #1562
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    There is an effort to equate antifa as being similar or even equal to far right fascist violence. This effort is aided by "journalists" like Andy Ngo, and the far right grifter set.

    People have copped on that this is not true at all.
    In addition the whole alt right sh1posting, dishonest actor, fake news and lying is clear now to everyone.

    Those tricks worked before but not so much now.


  • Options
    #1563
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Mindless violence is mindless violence and it should all be condemned.

    Start a thread about far right violence and I guarantee you nobody that condemns Antifa will post in support of it, assuming of course the examples you cite are unprovoked and not just self defense.


  • Options
    #1564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote:
    There is an effort to equate antifa as being similar or even equal to far right fascist violence.

    if we allow your remark of the right wing extremists being much worse to be true, will you be willing to condemn Antifas violent actions?


  • Options
    #1565
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    if we allow your remark of the right wing extremists being much worse to be true, will you be willing to condemn Antifas violent actions?

    Allow the remark to be true?
    lol, its true in every sense of the word.



    If there was no right wing problem there'd be no antifa.


  • Options
    #1566
    FartyBlartFast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭FartyBlartFast


    notobtuse wrote: »
    20Cent wrote: »
    The president of the USA is acting like an alt right s1tposter at the moment.

    The far right aren't a problem?

    LvlcA06.jpg
    Such faux outrage. Trump called out Congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a tweet, the Somali-born left-wing member of Congress who feels her new country is a hellhole. Omar's assimilation into America is the assimilation of identity politics and grievance, and her default is to blame America first. Trump urged her to return to her native country and fix it before presuming to tell us what to do. I believe many Americans agree with what Trump thinks in this matter. And let’s face it, Omar proved Trump’s point when she still refuses to say she does not support Al Qaeda. She is a radical anti-Semitic ingrate. Omar’s approval ratings are in the toilet at 9% and I’m surprised they’re even that high. Trump Derangement Syndrome rots the brain!
    You seem to have forgotten ocasio Cortez, Tlaib and Pressley. If Trump meant what you are trying to claim, what countries was he suggesting these women should "go back" to?

    I mean, considering that despite not being white, they are all American born and raised.


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  • Options
    #1567
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    You seem to have forgotten ocasio Cortez, Tlaib and Pressley. If Trump meant what you are trying to claim, what countries was he suggesting these women should "go back" to?

    I mean, considering that despite not being white, they are all American born and raised.
    He really went after Omar but on a more subtle note also against “The Squad.” Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wants to fight for illegal immigrants over the larger interests of the country. Representative Rashida Tlaib’s Palestinian roots, and her seemingly hatred of the alliance between the US and Israel... and also of Pressley’s race baiting tactics. He is exposing a select few Democrats (who the leadership appears to be afraid of) overall view of America that he finds derisive, and is keeping them in the news… and of who the majority of Americans (not on the far left) find offensive, IMO.

    But as anyone paying attention will notice... if they truly take to think about the outrage over Trump’s tweets are a distraction from his winning tactics. Do you not know what is going on? Trump loves supporters of all races and goes after critics of all races. His battles are about politics, policy and his core beliefs and attacks all opposition to his agenda. It was guaranteed that Democrats and their media minions sworn to destroy him would launch into a racism charge against Trump over his tweet to Omar… IT'S ALL THEY SEEM TO HAVE. Well, I’ve got news for Democrats who hope to win over anyone other than their core supporters (and they better think long and hard going into the 2020 race)… Your race card has been declined… You got any other arguments you’d like to put forth?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #1568
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,970 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    notobtuse wrote: »
    He really went after Omar but on a more subtle note also against “The Squad.” Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wants to fight for illegal immigrants over the larger interests of the country. Representative Rashida Tlaib’s Palestinian roots, and her seemingly hatred of the alliance between the US and Israel... and also of Pressley’s race baiting tactics. He is exposing a select few Democrats (who the leadership appears to be afraid of) overall view of America that he finds derisive, and is keeping them in the news… and of who the majority of Americans (not on the far left) find offensive, IMO.

    ..............


    Again - where are they supposed to "go back" to?


  • Options
    #1569
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    So the child rapists trump has as friends aren’t the dark underbelly. The American born women standing up to his racism are.

    That’s some reach. Even for this administration

    https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1151140719601639425?s=21


  • Options
    #1570
    FartyBlartFast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭FartyBlartFast


    notobtuse wrote: »
    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    You seem to have forgotten ocasio Cortez, Tlaib and Pressley. If Trump meant what you are trying to claim, what countries was he suggesting these women should "go back" to?

    I mean, considering that despite not being white, they are all American born and raised.
    He really went after Omar but on a more subtle note also against “The Squad.”
    That's it true though, is it? Here is the full body of his tweets

    So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......

    ....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

    ....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!


    Now that we have cleared up you either not reading or intentionally misrepresenting the tweets (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former, though even that means you will blindly defend anything he says without having even heard or read it), please let me know what countries that Tlaib, Presley and Ocasio Cortez should "go back" to.


  • Options
    #1571
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    So the child rapists trump has as friends aren’t the dark underbelly. The American born women standing up to his racism are.

    That’s some reach. Even for this administration

    https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1151140719601639425?s=21

    I love how you stopped the sentence at dark underbelly’ instead of finished the quote , possibly to make it seem racist or something but i dunno.

    What ‘the squad’ represent is a political viewpoint at odds with the american people and have regularly hurled insults at the man, the report is not wrong, they beling to a reactionary left wong fringe inside the democratic party who are trying to instill policies that would even be a hit too left by european standards, they align themselves with pollitical militia groups like antifa, BLM, etc..

    We know all too well what you get when you have a political wing of a violence group (sinn fein)


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    #1572
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Surprised* that the freedom of speech brigade aren't up in arms over trumps tweets and attacks on these congresswomen for having different opinions.











    *Not


  • Options
    #1573
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I love how you stopped the sentence at dark underbelly’ instead of finished the quote , possibly to make it seem racist or something but i dunno.

    What ‘the squad’ represent is a political viewpoint at odds with the american people and have regularly hurled insults at the man, the report is not wrong, they beling to a reactionary left wong fringe inside the democratic party who are trying to instill policies that would even be a hit too left by european standards, they align themselves with pollitical militia groups like antifa, BLM, etc..

    We know all too well what you get when you have a political wing of a violence group (sinn fein)

    I’m not sure they’re the political wing of any group committing violence? Happy to be corrected.

    Trump put them on the map by reacting to them and his need for a target for his racist rhetoric made manifest in their opposition to his racism.

    This isn’t hard to understand.

    He’s given them the spotlight and grown their platform to serve as his target. What they do with it or say on it is almost of no matter.
    They’re there to serve his need for an opposition.
    Hilary/lock her up had obviously run out of steam and he listened to someone at last trying to tell him that


    This is all sh!tshow distraction.

    You realise that right?


  • Options
    #1574
    arse..biscuits
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭arse..biscuits


    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    That's it true though, is it? Here is the full body of his tweets

    So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......

    ....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

    ....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!


    Now that we have cleared up you either not reading or intentionally misrepresenting the tweets (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former, though even that means you will blindly defend anything he says without having even heard or read it), please let me know what countries that Tlaib, Presley and Ocasio Cortez should "go back" to.

    "places" and "countries" have different meanings


  • Options
    #1575
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    20Cent wrote: »
    Surprised* that the freedom of speech brigade aren't up in arms over trumps tweets and attacks on these congresswomen for having different opinions






    *Not

    He responded to their opinions, he didnt call them racists or ask to have them impeached or try to de-platform them , thats the biggest difference.


  • Options
    #1576
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,970 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I love how (.................) group (sinn fein)




    Can you tell us what country they're supposed to go back to?


  • Options
    #1577
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Can you tell us what country they're supposed to go back to?

    The ones their parents come from which they love using to play identity politics instead of being proud americans


  • Options
    #1578
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The ones their parents come from which they love using to play identity politics instead of being proud americans

    Trumps mother grew up in poverty in Scotland and couldn’t speak English only Scots Gaelic. His father was german.
    His two wives are from the eastern bloc. His son and daughter are children of immigrants directly. As is he.



    Him telling anyone to ‘go home’ is both racist and hilariously hypocritical


    You realise that though right?


  • Options
    #1579
    FartyBlartFast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭FartyBlartFast


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    What ‘the squad’ represent is a political viewpoint at odds with the american people
    Then how were they elected by the American people?

    Also worth pointing out that identity politics are Trump and many of his his supporters bread and butter, day in and day out,of which this is a pretty good example.


  • Options
    #1580
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,970 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The ones their parents come from which they love using to play identity politics instead of being proud americans


    So because their parents were from another country, and even though they were born and raised in America, they aren't allowed to express an opinion about the country they're citizens of. They're eternally "foriegn", as presumably their children and grandchildren will also be.


  • Options
    #1581
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    That's it true though, is it? Here is the full body of his tweets

    So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......

    ....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

    ....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!


    Now that we have cleared up you either not reading or intentionally misrepresenting the tweets (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former, though even that means you will blindly defend anything he says without having even heard or read it), please let me know what countries that Tlaib, Presley and Ocasio Cortez should "go back" to.
    The point of his “go back where they came from” tweet (as I took it) was to highlight to the American people where the loyalties of these congresswomen stand… which does not appear to be with the majority of American CITIZENS. He did it, and with not much eloquence I admit, for maximum affect… which apparently worked. I’m sure Nancy Pelosi would prefer The Squad to just sit down and shut up so people would go back to talking about their presidential candidates instead of The Squad who turn away more people from the democrats every time they get in front of a microphone.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #1582
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,970 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The point of his “go back where they came from” tweet (as I took it) was to highlight to the American people where the loyalties of these congresswomen stand… which does not appear to be with the majority of American CITIZENS.




    Sure how could they be real Americans, being all brown and foriegn looking.


  • Options
    #1583
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    Then how were they elected by the American people?
    How were they elected, you ask? To paraphrase Nance Pelosi… a glass of water could have won in their districts.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #1584
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    20Cent wrote: »
    There is an effort to equate antifa as being similar or even equal to far right fascist violence. This effort is aided by "journalists" like Andy Ngo, and the far right grifter set.

    People have copped on that this is not true at all.
    In addition the whole alt right sh1posting, dishonest actor, fake news and lying is clear now to everyone.

    Those tricks worked before but not so much now.


    The behaviour of thugs cannot be tolerated. Whom ANTIFA say they are against is totally irrelevant as against the fact that they may not exercise violence to intimidate and thwart others, to block legal and peaceful demonstrations, to attack and assault others. No one has a right to assault others and to riot. The label "anti-fascist" makes zero difference as against committing crimes. Labelling religion <insert brand> as the ONE TRUE RELIGION doesn’t justify its members from chopping off the heads of unbelievers if they do not convert.


    Most of us on here value order. There cannot be freedom, peace, security or justice with anonymous and armed mobs roaming the streets, disrupting the gatherings of others, hounding and harassing others, and getting away with crimes while authorities stand down and allow them to act violently. I expect American voters may have something to say about this next election.


    Who does not understand this? Among others, members of ANTIFA do not. "Crow, who was involved with ANTIFA for almost 30 years, said members use violence as a means of self-defense and they believe property destruction does not equate to violence."

    Attacking a speaker on a University campus or attacking attendees to their speech is not self defence. False, mistaken and stupid beliefs about self defence are no excuse for criminality. ANTIFA is disturbing the peace, beating up on people, throwing Molotov cocktails and disrupting gatherings. None of that is self defence, because no one has attacked them.


    Here is the kernel of their mistaken and criminal thinking:


    "The idea in ANTIFA is that we go where they (right-wingers) go. That hate speech is not free speech. That if you are endangering people with what you say and the actions that are behind them, then you do not have the right to do that.

    "And so we go to cause conflict, to shut them down where they are, because we don't believe that Nazis or fascists of any stripe should have a mouthpiece.    "


    Who appointed or hired ANTIFA to identify the "right-wingers"? Who anointed them to decide that these right-wingers were enemies who were "endangering people"? Who gave them the power to label other groups as NAZIs or "fascists of any stripe"? Who authorised them to suppress the speech of their targets by violent means? Who gave ANTIFA the right to "cause conflict" and "shut them down where they are"?

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Options
    #1585
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Sure how could they be real Americans, being all brown and foriegn looking.
    The race card... really?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #1586
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,970 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The race card... really?






    That's the dog whistle hes using. If I ever see him refer to somebody of European descent in the same way in the same sort of context - provided I don't die of shock - I'll take it back.


  • Options
    #1587
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,184 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Odhinn wrote: »
    Sure how could they be real Americans, being all brown and foriegn looking.
    The race card... really?
    Go back to where they came from...really?


  • Options
    #1588
    FartyBlartFast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭FartyBlartFast


    notobtuse wrote: »
    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    Then how were they elected by the American people?
    How were they elected, you ask? To paraphrase Nance Pelosi… a glass of water could have won in their districts.
    Then how did Cortez beat out a guy who held the role for multiple terms previously? How did they beat the other democrats running?

    Because they represent the will of the US citizens of their district. So why are you jumping in to try and claim otherwise?


  • Options
    #1589
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Allow the remark to be true?
    lol, its true in every sense of the word.



    If there was no right wing problem there'd be no antifa.

    So that's a no then.


  • Options
    #1590
    FartyBlartFast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭FartyBlartFast


    notobtuse wrote: »
    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    That's it true though, is it? Here is the full body of his tweets

    So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......

    ....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

    ....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!


    Now that we have cleared up you either not reading or intentionally misrepresenting the tweets (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former, though even that means you will blindly defend anything he says without having even heard or read it), please let me know what countries that Tlaib, Presley and Ocasio Cortez should "go back" to.
    The point of his “go back where they came from” tweet (as I took it) was to highlight to the American people where the loyalties of these congresswomen stand… which does not appear to be with the majority of American CITIZENS. He did it, and with not much eloquence I admit, for maximum affect… which apparently worked. I’m sure Nancy Pelosi would prefer The Squad to just sit down and shut up so people would go back to talking about their presidential candidates instead of The Squad who turn away more people from the democrats every time they get in front of a microphone.
    Their loyalties lie with their districts, who elected them. These districts are made up of US citizens, who elected them.

    I see you're using the 'majority of American citizens' line. If you're using approval ratings to back this up, should Trump leave the US too, along with mitch McConnell and the vast majority of all elected officials on both sides of the aisle as they are below 50% approval too?

    Or is it somehow different in the case of these four non white women?


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    #1591
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    FartyBlartFast wrote: »
    Then how did Cortez beat out a guy who held the role for multiple terms previously? How did they beat the other democrats running?

    Because they represent the will of the US citizens of their district. So why are you jumping in to try and claim otherwise?


    That’s a very good question. I was in shock when it happened as I have friends and acquaintances in that district. Joe Crowley, the 10-term incumbent and chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, failed to grasp the changes in both media and his constituency’s makeup. AOC’s success came down to canvassing, a progressive ideology (it is NYC you know… crazy town), a focus on social media and nontraditional news outlets, and favorable media coverage. AOC tailored her campaign to the growing Latino community and to younger voters who were willing to go to the ballot box. Her campaign platform called for abolishing US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, as well as supporting Medicare for All which appealed to the voters in her district. Her youth-oriented and tech-savvy campaign will be adopted by the DNC this election, that you can count on. I also was an off year congressional primary and Crowley didn’t do enough to connect with the voters in his district. It is good of Trump to keep AOC in the news and highlighting just how dangerous of America her platform is. But that is the primary.

    When it comes to the general election Pelosi is right... a glass of water with a 'D' behind it would have won those districts.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



This discussion has been closed.
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