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TDs have voted to make it compulsory to stand during the Dail prayer

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12467…16

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  • Options
    #92
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Have you read our constitution? Its full of references to God and Christianity.The dail is just reflecting the spirit and will of the people as expressed in the founding documents of our country.

    Does it say in the constitution that Ireland is a catholic country?


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    #93
    greendom
    Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Have you read our constitution? Its full of references to God and Christianity.The dail is just reflecting the spirit and will of the people as expressed in the founding documents of our country.

    it needs to change, those founding documents are clearly out of date


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    #94
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    big syke wrote: »
    I am sure it would/could be allowed in other places of work if enough people petitioned for it.
    I don't see why, it's a another case of do it on your own time. When you're in work, you do work, you can spend the rest of the day flagellating yourself if you want, but do it on your own time, in an appropriate place.


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    #95
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I don't see why, it's a another case of do it on your own time. When you're in work, you do work, you can spend the rest of the day flagellating yourself if you want, but do it on your own time, in an appropriate place.

    Before work day begins is you own time.


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    #96
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Does it say in the constitution that Ireland is a catholic country?

    I think reference to it were removed some time back along with inclusion of other religions.


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    #97
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    pjohnson wrote: »
    The issue is that variants of "church" and "pray" are major triggers for some AH regulars.

    As is the concept of parliamentary democracy it seems.


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    #98
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭techdiver


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Yes, calling people who you disagree with morons is really an insightful and helpful way to debate an issue.
    pjohnson wrote: »
    It also shows a certain level of intelligence.
    infogiver wrote: »
    Calling someone a moron indicates intelligence?
    What an astonishing thing to say.

    You cannot debate with people who believe in such things though.

    They see nothing wrong with ramming religion down everyone else's throat, whether it comes to education, the health service and the running of our state institutions.

    I'm all for religious freedom, but as long as that freedom doesn't impact on others. The issue however is that we still live in a nation that puts faith above fact and the actions today is another example of that!


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    #99
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    big syke wrote: »
    Before work day begins is you own time.
    It's a public building though, it's still not the place.


    Just on the news there, not standing will get you thrown out or lose a days pay. http://www.newstalk.com/Dail-votes-to-make-standing-mandatory-for-prayer

    That's not right.


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    #100
    NinjaKirby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭NinjaKirby


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Have you read our constitution? Its full of references to God and Christianity.The dail is just reflecting the spirit and will of the people as expressed in the founding documents of our country.

    I don't know about God but Christianity doesn't exactly have a great record when it comes to treatment of the people in this country.

    So maybe it's time to cast it aside? Just saying...

    Worst case scenario I am getting a chuckle out of the idea that the people running the nation are doing a wee prayer before they get started. :rolleyes:


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    #101
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Does it say in the constitution that Ireland is a catholic country?

    I never said catholic, I said christian. And of the top of my head, the preamble, articles 6 and 12 all invoke a christian, or at a stretch a judea/christian god


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    #102
    zedhead
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭zedhead


    big syke wrote: »
    Before work day begins is you own time.

    But again forcing people who do not wish to partake to stand and observe is the main issue. If the majority of the people in my office wanted to all collectively pray before the start of work they can go for it, but I should not have to stand and observe or wait outside for it to happen.

    I could not imagine any instance where it would be implemented in any other work place (apart from specifically religious institutions)


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    #103
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

    "Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

    I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.


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    #104
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    ScumLord wrote: »
    It's a public building though, it's still not the place.


    Just on the news there, not standing will get you thrown out or lose a days pay. http://www.newstalk.com/Dail-votes-to-make-standing-mandatory-for-prayer

    That's not right.



    Agreed its not right but at the same time entering the chamber when you know you are not going to stand up during prayers (i.e. just to protest by sitting down) is a pretty stupid thing to do.


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    #105
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    head in hands stuff here , like it's 2017 ... were still debating whether state run schools should be able to discriminate against kids of non religious or non catholic parents for admission , Should an Order of nuns who enslaved women , abused sold and killed babies should have ownership of a maternity hospital still chaired by the fking archbishop , whether abortion (a medical procedure practiced in almost every civilized country in the world) should be allowed here , whether blasphemy should still be considered a crime and those who legislate for change, change we need , change that people are openly calling for are voting 97 - 17 to continue to start the daily business of our parliament with a catholic prayer, id really love to say i'm shocked by this but to be honest it was epected.

    I'm so done it's not even funny , country's wankered lads , last one out turn off the lights.


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    #106
    NinjaKirby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭NinjaKirby


    Woodville56 wrote: »
    I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

    "Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

    I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

    So basically "may the force be with you"?


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    #107
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    zedhead wrote: »
    But again forcing people who do not wish to partake to stand and observe is the main issue. If the majority of the people in my office wanted to all collectively pray before the start of work they can go for it, but I should not have to stand and observe or wait outside for it to happen.

    I could not imagine any instance where it would be implemented in any other work place (apart from specifically religious institutions)

    No one is forcing anyone to stand.

    If they do not wish to partake do not come into work early!!! It is not as if they will be working while they sit and everyone else is praying. They would be merely protesting for the sake of it.

    If it is implemented in you workplace your working day has not begun you have no right to enter your workplace anyway


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    #108
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    big syke wrote: »
    Agreed its not right but at the same time entering the chamber when you know you are not going to stand up during prayers (i.e. just to protest by sitting down) is a pretty stupid thing to do.

    It would be a stupid thing to do if it was someone's private chapel or something.

    It's our country's parliament and members are being told to stay out of the chamber, or stand up for the prayer's of someone else's religion or lose a day's pay. That's unimaginable in most countries yet some people here see its criticism as 'anti-Catholic'. It's unbelievable how biased some people are.


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    #109
    zedhead
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭zedhead


    big syke wrote: »
    No one is forcing anyone to stand.

    If they do not wish to partake do not come into work early!!! It is not as if they will be working while they sit and everyone else is praying.

    If it is implemented in you workplace your working day has not begun you have no right to enter your workplace anyway

    If it was implemented in my workplace I would be finding somewhere else to work.


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    #110
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Walter H Price wrote: »

    I'm so done it's not even funny , country's wankered lads , last one out turn off the lights.

    That's a bit hysterical now.


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    #111
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    The reports I've read say "At the beginning of the day's business", which to me would indicate that if work starts at 9:00, it starts with a prayer. Not that the prayer takes place at 8:59.

    Even if people are allowed stay outside until after the prayer at 9:01, that would be quite disruptive, as a bunch of people file in, get their seats, take out their papers, and get themselves settled in - it would probably be at least 9:05 before any work could actually start. It's an utter waste of time.

    As someone else has mentioned, it doesn't seem to take into account a non-Christian Ceann Comhairle, and also doesn't seem to account for members who can not physically stand, e.g. wheelchair users. Which means at some stage more time will be wasted again as those issues are debated in the future.

    A far better idea would have those who want to pray to meet up half an hour before the start of business, pray together, then be in their seats ready to go at the start of business.

    Having prayers (of any religion, or spiritual leaning) at the start of business makes it sound like praying is part of the business, when it clearly isn't.


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    #112
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    ScumLord wrote: »
    It's a public building though, it's still not the place.


    Just on the news there, not standing will get you thrown out or lose a days pay. http://www.newstalk.com/Dail-votes-to-make-standing-mandatory-for-prayer

    That's not right.

    Is the dail a public building? You need an invite to get it in or be accompanied by a member. That's a private building afaik.


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    #113
    zedhead
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭zedhead


    Woodville56 wrote: »
    I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

    "Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

    I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

    Its not an anti catholic rant. People would have the same issue if it was protestant, muslim, jewish or any other faiths prayer. Prayer has no place in the Dail.


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    #114
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    That's a bit hysterical now.

    Really ? not sure what the point is in waiting around and hoping to see this country actually mature into a proper secular state , when quite evidently there is 0 political will.


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    #115
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    zedhead wrote: »
    If it was implemented in my workplace I would be finding somewhere else to work.

    And why is that?

    Do you have a problem with religious freedom or access to prayers before a work day?

    Do you have a problem with Muslim daytime prayers?


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    #116
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Peregrine wrote: »
    . It's unbelievable how biased some people.

    Very true. Some people outraged at Catholics having a quick prayer in an empty chamber before work or business has begun.


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    #117
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Is the dail a public building? You need an invite to get it in or be accompanied by a member. That's a private building afaik.
    I'd be utterly shocked if it wasn't a public building. What your describing is security. You probably can't go wandering around military barracks uninvited either. It doesn't make the military a private enterprise.


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    #118
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,727 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    osarusan wrote: »
    RTE not using the words 'compulsory', instead saying they will be 'asked' to stand. Don't know if that is significant.

    Coppinger has already said she will refuse to stand.

    A lot of people don't support what she stands for anyway.


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    #119
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    NinjaKirby wrote: »
    So basically "may the force be with you"?

    Or, in honour of the day, May the fourth be with you.


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    #120
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Approaching 3pm....yup its time for boards anti-catholic thread!

    This is not anti catholic ... it is anti idiots. I hate this type of crap. They should have left it the way it was... let the idiots stand and pray and let the progressive people sit and reflect on how stupid it is.


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    #121
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,727 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    I love the huge overreaction.

    The country has real issues, this is not one of them.


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