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TDs have voted to make it compulsory to stand during the Dail prayer

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Comments

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    #62
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,842 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Damn people for having other opinions than mine, I am so outraged and offended.

    Now I shall over use the word of how Ireland is coming a backwater, wtf, bla, bla, bla.

    It's an optional prayer before work begins, no one is forced to attend.

    This isn't merely an opinion that you can feel euphoric over being some sort of "free speech" keyboard warrior. The Ceann Comhairle will now be required to lead the prayer, which will force all but devout Catholics to betray their conscience if they're appointed to this position unless this stupid rule is removed. At least other countries' parliaments which begin their day with a prayer bring in a chaplain to lead proceedings.


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    #63
    shamrock55
    Registered Users Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭shamrock55


    This country is literally getting worse by the day


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    #64
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    zedhead wrote: »
    The response was to someone who was saying it shouldnt be an issue if it was introduced in any workplace. It hasn't been introduced in my workplace but I would of course have a huge issue if it was in any way shape or form. Apart from actual religious organisations - prayer has no place to be mandated for in a work place, especially not our government.
    If people want to pray is should be done in a way to not impact anyone else in the workplace, it is a private matter.


    How does it realistically impact, in this instance, someone else's workplace though?

    I am genuinely curious.


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    #65
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    cursai wrote: »
    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Damn people for having other opinions than mine, I am so outraged and offended.

    Now I shall over use the word of how Ireland is coming a backwater, wtf, bla, bla, bla.

    It's an optional prayer before work begins, no one is forced to attend.

    It shouldn't be in the workplace. Especially the Dail......

    But obviously the vast majority of TD's think it should on the basis of the vote ? If some people have a problem with that, let them elect enough like minded members next time and overturn the vote. Personally I feel that those members who don't wish to participate in the prayer should be allowed in the chamber and remain seated at that time if they wish, rather than having to stay outside.


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    #66
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    It's not anticatholic, it's pro separation of church and state.

    It could be seen as anti-catholic / Christian wrapped up in the guise of pro separation of church and state.


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    #67
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 10,571 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Can we see individual TDs' voting record on this? Great to know for when they next knock on my door.


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    #68
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    It's not anticatholic, it's pro separation of church and state.

    Its funny I am 100% for separation of church and state.

    no issue with a prayer before work though as it doesn't really impact anyone to a great extent.

    It is actually such a non issue its laughable.


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    #69
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Just out of the way all hush hush, no sight if your faith anywhere, might displease some atheists.
    Actually, the bible refers to people who pray in public as hypocrites. Matthew 6:5.


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    #70
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,183 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I say a few just voted for it just to make Clare Daly stand up!


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    #71
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    This isn't merely an opinion that you can feel euphoric over being some sort of "free speech" keyboard warrior. The Ceann Comhairle will now be required to lead the prayer, which will force all but devout Catholics to betray their conscience if they're appointed to this position unless this stupid rule is removed. At least other countries' parliaments which begin their day with a prayer bring in a chaplain to lead proceedings.

    Who is been a free speech keyboard warrior? A change will be brought in place if the Crank Comhairle is not Catholic or comfortable with leading a prayer. I dont see a problem with a Chaplin leading proceedings.


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    #72
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    It could be seen as anti-catholic / Christian wrapped up in the guise of pro separation of church and state.

    How is it anti-catholic?
    big syke wrote: »
    Its funny I am 100% for separation of church and state.

    no issue with a prayer before work though as it doesn't really impact anyone to a great extent.

    It is actually such a non issue its laughable.

    How can you be 100% for separation of church and state if you have no problems with a prayer from a specific religion being read before each days business, to which people not of that religion, or any religion, must stand for? What you say and what you think do not tally with each other.


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    #73
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    pjohnson wrote: »
    It also shows a certain level of intelligence.

    Calling someone a moron indicates intelligence?
    What an astonishing thing to say.


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    #74
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    This is outrageous! Imagine they're making those poor fat useless showe of incompetent **** stand on their own two feet for 30 seconds. They'd need to get a load of defib units on standby for when the fat unfit feckers keel over from exhaustion.


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    #75
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    Chester Copperpot wrote: »
    The other issue is that the ceann comhairle must also lead the prayer. So they will exclude people from that position if they don't want to pray. Is a shoddy piece of legislation and hopefully won't last long

    Was not aware of that.

    I am sure that that could/would be changed in the event that the ceann comhairle was non catholic.


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    #76
    dinorebel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭dinorebel


    techdiver wrote: »
    There are no words!.... :mad::mad::mad:

    Joe


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    #77
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Dont be at yourself wrote: »
    Can we see individual TDs' voting record on this? Great to know for when they next knock on my door.

    Well of the 97 who voted 17 were against and SF as usual abstained so it would be easier to find out who voted against.


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    #78
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Rabble rabble rabble.


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    #79
    zedhead
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭zedhead


    big syke wrote: »
    How does it realistically impact, in this instance, someone else's workplace though?

    I am genuinely curious.

    It doesn't. But the question was how if it was implemented in your workplace would it affect your day.

    Also just because it doesn't affect another work place doesn't mean it is the right course of action. If it wouldn't be allowed in other workplaces, then why should it be allowed in the dail? Separation of church and state, if people want to pray then that's their right, but it should not required to be lead by the Ceann Comhairle (who at any point in the future may not be catholic, and surely a non catholic leading a prayer is at the very least quite disrespectful) nor should anyone else be required to observe by standing or get out of the room.


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    #80
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    It could be seen as anti-catholic / Christian wrapped up in the guise of pro separation of church and state.
    It's not anti catholic to want our representatives to keep dail for dail business. This basically means that non religious or Christian people are excluded from the dail until the Christians have done their thing, you can't even go in and sit down preparing for your day.

    They could have set aside a room as a chapel and let them go there.

    It's just mind boggling that this is what they're doing now, when there's so much controversy over the state being under the thumb of the church they go and highlight that fact by hijacking the dail to say prayers they could be saying to themselves at any other time of the day. This is a very public declaration that Catholic values come first at the expense of other people's freedom to do their job without feeling like outcasts.

    It's just not the place, why force your believes on the state like that?


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    #81
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,545 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    RTE not using the words 'compulsory', instead saying they will be 'asked' to stand. Don't know if that is significant.

    Coppinger has already said she will refuse to stand.


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    #82
    NinjaKirby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭NinjaKirby


    Who are they praying to?
    What are they praying for?

    There are 4 possibilities here really...

    1. God is real and the prayers are genuine. Our politicians are just trying to do right by us.
    2. God is real but the prayers are not 100% genuine. Our politicians are doing a half assed job.
    3. God isn't real and our politicians know it but will pray anyway. Our politicians are dishonest liars.
    4. God isn't real but our politicians think God is real and so they pray. Our politicians are delusional.

    So, I think we are basically screwed... unless we pray?


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    #83
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,147 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    big syke wrote: »
    Its funny I am 100% for separation of church and state.

    no issue with a prayer before work though as it doesn't really impact anyone to a great extent.

    It is actually such a non issue its laughable.

    The non issues always cause the most upset


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    #84
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    How is it anti-catholic?



    How can you be 100% for separation of church and state if you have no problems with a prayer from a specific religion being read before each days business, to which people not of that religion, or any religion, must stand for? What you say and what you think do not tally with each other.

    Because in my eyes a prayer of any kind before a working day i.e. Catholic prayers, Salah, Musaf etc is not the same as the catholics churches involvement with state institutions i.e. schools, hospitals etc.

    I fail to see how you cant grasp this.


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    #85
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    NinjaKirby wrote: »
    Who are they praying to?
    What are they praying for?

    There are 4 possibilities here really...

    1. God is real and the prayers are genuine. Our politicians are just trying to do right by us.
    2. God is real but the prayers are not 100% genuine. Our politicians are doing a half assed job.
    3. God isn't real and our politicians know it but will pray anyway. Our politicians are dishonest liars.
    4. God isn't real but our politicians think God is real and so they pray. Our politicians are delusional.

    So, I think we are basically screwed... unless we pray?

    I'd bet huge money on number 3... :cool:


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    #86
    big syke
    Registered Users Posts: 906 ✭✭✭big syke


    zedhead wrote: »
    It doesn't. But the question was how if it was implemented in your workplace would it affect your day.

    Also just because it doesn't affect another work place doesn't mean it is the right course of action. If it wouldn't be allowed in other workplaces, then why should it be allowed in the dail? Separation of church and state, if people want to pray then that's their right, but it should not required to be lead by the Ceann Comhairle (who at any point in the future may not be catholic, and surely a non catholic leading a prayer is at the very least quite disrespectful) nor should anyone else be required to observe by standing or get out of the room.

    I am sure it would/could be allowed in other places of work if enough people petitioned for it.

    Agreed in respect of Ceann Comhairle leading. This should be scrapped.


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    #87
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    On the whole SF abstaining issue, they actually had an amendment to drop the prayer and have it as silence instead, so I figure they were just abstaining from the other amendments.


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    #88
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Rngy90Q14


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    #89
    IrishSea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 71 ✭✭IrishSea


    All of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael voted in favour I would presume.
    Gotta keep those Catholic votes.....


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    #90
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    osarusan wrote: »
    RTE not using the words 'compulsory', instead saying they will be 'asked' to stand. Don't know if that is significant.

    Coppinger has already said she will refuse to stand.

    Of course she has, she's an attention seeking geebag.


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    #91
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    It's unconstitutional. I wonder will it be challenged in the courts.

    Have you read our constitution? Its full of references to God and Christianity.The dail is just reflecting the spirit and will of the people as expressed in the founding documents of our country.


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