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How would Ireland cope with a '7/7' style attack?

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    #62
    s3rtvdbwfj81ch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭s3rtvdbwfj81ch


    chocksaway wrote: »
    Croke park on all ireland sunday would be a prime target I'm sure

    it's been done


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    #63
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,549 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    biscuithead wrote: »
    It's a silly question. In fact it's pointless. You have as much chance of being struck by lightning as you have of being killed in a terrorist attack. If I was to recommend that everyone stay indoors to avoid being struck by lightning and then demanded to know if you agreed or not then it would be the same type of thing.

    Planting a few soldiers on O'Connell Street and have them sit their on their arses, day in, day out, month in, month out would simply be a waste of time and money. Even if a hapless and incompetent terrorist DID conduct an attack close enough for them to intervene so that he only killed one or two before they shot him his job is still done. He's still spread terror. But any terrorist with half a brain would simply say "right, few soldiers sitting in a jeep drinking tea by the Parnell monument. Idiots. I'll get my mate Abdul to distract them with a bogus hostage situation in Beshoff's while I saunter into the Olympia Theatre and spray the audience with lead, killing dozens."

    And wouldn't bomb attacks be much easier and more effective than a gun or knife attack?

    You are still avoiding the question ffs.

    I'm not asking you whether putting armed soldiers on the street is a worthwhile activity based on the level of risk - I'm asking if you agree that armed forces are going to respond better to certain kinds of attack than unarmed forces. That was what you seemed to be wondering about when you asked about 'shortening an attack.'

    Bomb attacks would be more effective than guns (maybe) or knives, yes.

    But not easier. It's much easier (and quicker, and attracting less attention in preparation, therefore harder to stop) to drive a car at a load of pedestrians on a crowded street.

    To go back to the goalposts you must be tired from moving, I've already said that i think the threat of attack is overstated. If we really did have operative in our midst hellbent on spreading terror, and that terror is so easily spread, then we should be seeing attacks already - but we're not.

    But that wasn't the question asked, and I think you know it.


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    #64
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Yea, if we could stop giving ISIS ideas on how they could attack us effectively, that would be great. Thanks.

    There's a lot of walter mitty types on here.


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    #65
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    osarusan wrote: »
    You are still avoiding the question ffs.

    I'm not asking you whether putting armed soldiers on the street is a worthwhile activity based on the level of risk - I'm asking if you agree that armed forces are going to respond better to certain kinds of attack than unarmed forces. That was what you seemed to be wondering about when you asked about 'shortening an attack.'

    Bomb attacks would be more effective than guns (maybe) or knives, yes.

    But not easier. It's much easier (and quicker, and attracting less attention in preparation, therefore harder to stop) to drive a car at a load of pedestrians on a crowded street.

    To go back to the goalposts you must be tired from moving, I've already said that i think the threat of attack is overstated. If we really did have operative in our midst hellbent on spreading terror, and that terror is so easily spread, then we should be seeing attacks already - but we're not.

    But that wasn't the question asked, and I think you know it.

    I'm not avoiding the question. I'm simply choosing not to be drawn on it because it's a stupid question. A point-scoring exercise. Someone thinks that putting soldiers and armoured cars at a few locations around the city would be a good thing and I say it would be pointless. If you insist on getting an answer to the question of whether a few armed soldiers could bring an attack to a speedy conclusion, I would say "I haven't got a clue". It all depends on the type of attack, the location of the attack. The attacker could be a skilled marksman who could pick off the 3 soldiers in quick succession and then go back to his business of shooting civilians. You can ask the question all you want but it's a "piece of string" question.

    As for a bomb being "difficult"......well if we are to believe the authorities, one can cobble together a bomb with a tube of toothpaste, a can of shaving gel and a bottle of Lucozade (as long as all 3 are over 100 ml), a bomb that could take down a passenger plane, so I'm sure the same combination of bathroom products could be combined to level a cinema.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biscuithead wrote: »
    I agree with you about the usual jokes about the Garda. They are a fine police force. People talk about how they are useless and incompetent.

    Just take one example of many. Lansdowne Road 1995. This could have been another Heysel or Hillsbourough or Charleroi or Bradford. The Garda emptied that stadium like a bathtub, keeping Combat 18 scumbags in place. A fine contingent of Dub and culchie gardai then proceeded to beat the tar out of these **** all the way to the ferries. I even witnessed gardai in their shirts, sleeves rolled up, dishing out a clubbing to the hooligans. No need for belgian or italian guns and tear gas.
    They were warned ahead of time and did nothing. Landsdowne Road was all-seater and there was nothing in the design of the stadium to lead to another Hillsborough or Heysel or, as you laughably bring up, Bradford. The Gardai showed that night what a crap police force they were. They showed that they can hit people after the fact, which ain't exactly fine police work in most of the world.


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    #67
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They were warned ahead of time and did nothing. Landsdowne Road was all-seater and there was nothing in the design of the stadium to lead to another Hillsborough or Heysel or, as you laughably bring up, Bradford. The Gardai showed that night what a crap police force they were. They showed that they can hit people after the fact, which ain't exactly fine police work in most of the world.

    What do you propose should have been done in light of the warning that known hooligans and right-wing extremists were suspected of travelling to the game? What exactly? Cancel the match? You'd have some derogatory thing to say in this case as well. You'd probably say "Oh, crappy, gutless, gardai can't even handle a few skinheads. They cancel the game a run for the safety of the station-house".

    I brought up other disasters because they were avoidable and poorly handled. That there were terraces rather than seats at Hillsbourough is irrelevant but don't let that stop you from splitting hairs. The Sth. Yorkshire police made a bollox of the situation at Hillsbourough. The Gardai at Lansdowne didn't.

    And you sneer at the Gardai saying that it doesn't take a genius to crack a few heads. Go ahead and trivialise all you want. The job of the Gardai is to protect the public. At Lansdowne 1995 they didn't just protect a few individuals. They ensured the safety of ten of thousands by getting them out of the stadium in an orderly manner and away from the ground. They then turned their attention to the troublemakers and gave them a decent thrashing. They ensured the ongoing safety of the general public by marching these thugs to the ferries making sure that they didn't cause any more aggro in Dublin and those who tried to peel away got another battering. If that's crappy policing, i'll take it.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biscuithead wrote: »
    What do you propose should have been done in light of the warning that known hooligans and right-wing extremists were suspected of travelling to the game? What exactly? Cancel the match? You'd have some derogatory thing to say in this case as well. You'd probably say "Oh, crappy, gutless, gardai can't even handle a few skinheads. They cancel the game a run for the safety of the station-house".
    Proper security before the game, proper checks at the border. It's not rocket science.
    I brought up other disasters because they were avoidable and poorly handled.That there were terraces rather than seats at Hillsbourough is irrelevant but don't let that stop you from splitting hairs. The Sth. Yorkshire police made a bollox of the situation at Hillsbourough. The Gardai at Lansdowne didn't.
    It's completely relevant. The design and lack of knowledge (followed by disgusting cover-up) at Hillsborough was completely different to x number of seats having x number of people there. Hillsborough is completely irrelevant.
    And you sneer at the Gardai saying that it doesn't take a genius to crack a few heads. Go ahead and trivialise all you want. The job of the Gardai is to protect the public. At Lansdowne 1995 they didn't just protect a few individuals. They ensured the safety of ten of thousands by getting them out of the stadium in an orderly manner and away from the ground. They then turned their attention to the troublemakers and gave them a decent thrashing. They ensured the ongoing safety of the general public by marching these thugs to the ferries making sure that they didn't cause any more aggro in Dublin and those who tried to peel away got another battering. If that's crappy policing, i'll take it.
    Well if everyone thinks like you (and a lot do) then it explains why we'll always have an under-prepared "police" force.
    Does it take a genius to crack heads? No. That's not trivialising, that's stating a fact.


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    #69
    Rebelkid
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Rebelkid


    bear1 wrote: »
    Do they have more helicopters available to them? Or would this be simply a case that they could take control over the army's helicopters?

    The ERU can be deployed via aer corps helicopter to a incident. Has happened before


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