Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Claims Crisis - Major Insurer pulls out saying claims culture and awards a joke

245678

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭1641


    “Hundreds of bouncy castle operators face going out of business following a decision by the industry’s main UK-based insurance provider to withdraw from the Irish market. .......
    ... Management at Pelican Promotions, a Co Louth company employing up to 36 people and with a store of 224 bouncy castles and inflatables, told their office staff the news on Thursday. “We have to close down,” said the family business owner Mandy Fee, leaving no room for doubt........
    ... As with other business owners, Ms Fee believes the scale of compensation payouts compared to elsewhere in Europe is to blame.”

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/hundreds-of-bouncy-castle-operators-may-go-out-of-business-1.3961880


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,329 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    FG witch-hunt? You have FG claiming they were going to tackle high insurance costs and at the same time you have two FG TD's involved in insurance fraud and a sitting FG minister cast as an ambulance chaser. FG only cared about insurance fraud until their own members were found to be fraudsters.
    And I'm not disagreeing with any of that but this thing is way bigger than a couple of TD's making a claim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    Its not a good look.

    Not unlike posters on the Mick Wallace / Claire Daily thread defending and deflecting by saying FG members did this and FG members did that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    2 things

    1. Insurance companies often do not contest claims: Rather pay out and recoup from the customer. Then complain about settlements
    2. Insurance companies report next to no cases of potential insurance fraud, to AGS, because of this there is no penalty to Swing cases

    Reporting fraud to AGS is a relatively new thing.
    Proving fraud is a costly business and only benefits solicitors as judges can be very favourable to the claimant. I.e. a whiplash claim can be settled for 21k. Going to court to prove there's no damage on a soft tissue injury is next to.impossible and would end up with a settlement of 30k+ after claimants and defence solicitors costs are taken into account

    The insurance companies are mostly competing against each other and want lower prices so they can get the business. They're not cooperating together to falsely raise the prices.
    There is an eu investigation into Irish insurers trying to limit others into the market though. But this is different than collaborating into raising prices.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    eagle eye wrote:
    And I'm not disagreeing with any of that but this thing is way bigger than a couple of TD's making a claim.
    What message do you think is sent out when three members of the government are part of the claims culture. 2 TD's involved in attempted insurance fraud and a sitting minister identified as an ambulance chaser. Does this inspire confidence in the business community that the government is serious about tackling insurance costs and claims. Personally the government has no credibility.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,850 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Do they do number 1 because the judges are so unpredictable that in even the most clear cut case the decision can go either way? Regardless of the facts...




    Often they will do number 1 and refuse to fight a claim even when the insured begs them to.....and then just proceed to up the insured's premium the next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    what clearly needs to happen is mass closures of leisure facilities, mass layoffs etc when businesses cant get insured. not until the political and legal classes are inconvenienced in their private lives will we see any reform


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,329 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    What message do you think is sent out when three members of the government are part of the claims culture. 2 TD's involved in attempted insurance fraud and a sitting minister identified as an ambulance chaser. Does this inspire confidence in the business community that the government is serious about tackling insurance costs and claims. Personally the government has no credibility.
    Do you know what this thread is about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,850 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Balf wrote: »
    They presumably need to do something to draw attention away from Josepha Madigan.

    Its also reported that Josepha looked after the initial claim to the PIAB for Maria. Does this mean that Josepha provided the initial legal advice, to the effect that Maria should pursue the claim?

    More to see here. And the big picture issue won't go away either.




    I don't get the outrage at this Madigan one. She was the solicitor I gather. While a solicitor should obviously not engage in fraud, it would be their responsibility to represent their client and advise them on legal things. So if a client comes in and says "I got some whiplash, what can I do" then it is the solicitors job to advise them. But I'd imagine they remain at the direction of the client. If the client gets a stupid payout, then that is the fault of the judge, not the solicitor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,759 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Nothing on the RTE news or website about this. Everything from moon landings to ships being hijacked and on the national news, road deaths to Padraig Pearse's school report.

    A non issue except for the people it affects.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Nothing on the RTE news or website about this. Everything from moon landings to ships being hijacked and on the national news, road deaths to Padraig Pearse's school report.

    A non issue except for the people it affects.

    Problem that FG have, is that insurance fraud affects everyone.

    From the homeowner who needs to insure his home and contents, to the motorist who faces compulsory insurance, right down to a kid buying a bag of sweets which retail at a certain price to factor in insurance costs for the shop keeper.

    Insurance fraud has a knock on effect to all of us. There's no escaping it.

    This is one they're not going to be able to shake off too easily.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    Often they will do number 1 and refuse to fight a claim even when the insured begs them to.....and then just proceed to up the insured's premium the next year.

    Because they know the odds are stacked against them by the court system. Even if they win or the case is thrown out, their costs are not awarded to them in 90% plus of cases (or they are not recoverable). So with the court system as it is they do a cost benefit analysis and settle for X rather than risk ‘winning’ and it costing them X plus Y.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    eagle eye wrote:
    Do you know what this thread is about?


    Yeah businesses closing due to insurance costs, problem is though the government won't tackle it as it has serving members who are part of the problem. Do you not see the connection?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,850 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Do this UK crowd have a European presence otherwise?

    There is also a good chance they are getting out because of Brexit. And maybe their profits here in a niche area just doesn't justify the cost of setting up an Irish (i.e. EU) base for operations here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,759 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Yeah businesses closing due to insurance costs, problem is though the government won't tackle it as it has serving members who are part of the problem. Do you not see the connection?

    Pretty much, that's it in a nutshell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,329 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Yeah businesses closing due to insurance costs, problem is though the government won't tackle it as it has serving members who are part of the problem. Do you not see the connection?
    No this thread is about an insurance company pulling out if Ireland.
    This is a widespread issue.
    There already is a thread about the FG thing. This is about insurance not being even available for businesses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    eagle eye wrote:
    No this thread is about an insurance company pulling out if Ireland. This is a widespread issue. There already is a thread about the FG thing. This is about insurance not being even available for businesses.

    Are you trying to moderate the thread?


  • Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    Problem that FG have, is that insurance fraud affects everyone.

    From the homeowner who needs to insure his home and contents, to the motorist who faces compulsory insurance, right down to a kid buying a bag of sweets which retail at a certain price to factor in insurance costs for the shop keeper.

    Insurance fraud has a knock on effect to all of us. There's no escaping it.

    This is one they're not going to be able to shake off too easily.

    And it's not just fraud. It's the level of payouts!


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,329 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Are you trying to moderate the thread?
    No, I'm just pointing out what it's about for those ranting on about Fine Gael. I understand how people see instance and hop straight on the Bailey thing but this topic is a whole lot bigger than that.
    We need to discuss what has to be done here.
    As I said there are a already a Bailey thread. Can we leave that stuff there and discuss the solutions to this huge problem?
    I've already put forward my belief that the liberals with their power are helping these claims along.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,850 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Because they know the odds are stacked against them by the court system. Even if they win or the case is thrown out, their costs are not awarded to them in 90% plus of cases. So with the court system as it is they do a cost benefit analysis and settle for X rather than risk ‘winning’ and it costing them X plus Y.




    Yeah but they still stick it to the policyholder afterwards................. The oul fella brushed the bumper of a car a few years back with the wheel of the trailer. no damage done, apart from maybe rubbing a bit of dust off the bumper. The car was about 15 years old and wrecked. "Partner" of the car owner arrives down a few days later and demands over 2k for a respraying for the entire car plus a set of new bumpers plus new bonnet. Had gotten some quote from a garage. Oul' fella rang insurance and they didn't give a shite. Just told him that he could either pay it himself or put it through the insurance and lose his no claims bonus which would cost him more over time. They said they would not send an assessor out.



    Insurance companies have the expertise and resources to fight such claims. When they won't fight the smaller ones (smaller to them) because they can push the cost onto the insured, then they have no justification complaining when that encourages a culture of scamming.


    Oul' fella just handed over a cheque. I was fairly pissed off as I would have insisted myself that I'd pay the garage directly. Fair enough, it would still cost the same money but the bollix scammer wouldn't end up with 2k in his pocket. (It was her car but the cheque was to be made out to him...). It would be 2k spent on a car that would be worth less than that when the job was done.


    On the other side of things, a relation recently had their car damaged while it was parked. Came back and the side was tore off it from a delivery truck. Knew what truck it was but truck owner refused to admit it happened. Insurance would pay for it, but would have lost no-claims bonus. No help or advice in putting pressure on the man who owned the truck.


    Twice in the past I've been in cars that have been rear ended. Once when stopped at a roundabout as the passenger of a car when we were just shunted forward about a foot, and once when driving into the city from Dublin airport and traffic being stopped at the end of the motorway around the time of Port Tunnel work. Both times the damage was minor (at least cosmetically) and we didn't pursue it. Given the subsequent dealings with insurance, if it happened again I don't know if I'd be so quick to rule out the oul' whiplash to be honest. I'd have to wait and see. There is no good being decent and relaxed about things when something happens to you if you get no support and get fucked when you are on the other side of the equation.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    eagle eye wrote:
    No, I'm just pointing out what it's about for those ranting on about Fine Gael. I understand how people see instance and hop straight on the Bailey thing but this topic is a whole lot bigger than that. We need to discuss what has to be done here. As I said there are a already a Bailey thread. Can we leave that stuff there and discuss the solutions to this huge problem? I've already put forward my belief that the liberals with their power are helping these claims along.


    Grand so, I don't need your permission to claim there is a lack of action by the government based on the fact it has insurance fraudsters serving in the same government.
    The only ones that can do anything is the government what part of that causes you confusion?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,712 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    So what does the leisure sector include, kids entertainment facilities, swimming pools what else is about to get a lot more expensive?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Balmed Out wrote:
    So what does the leisure sector include, kids entertainment facilities, swimming pools what else is about to get a lot more expensive?


    Many festivals have been cancelled, due to increased insurance. Sporting events such as the Sligo Ultra running event was cancelled due to unaffordable insurance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    eagle eye wrote:
    As discussed said there are a already a thread for the Fine Gael stuff. And just so you know I despise Fine Gael. Those s much bigger than just Fine Gael. This is about a compo culture in this country.

    I don't care whether you like FG, FF, SF or any other bunch it's absolutely irrelevant. The point is the government is the only one that can tackle the insurance costs and claims culture. FG at present are the government and considering they have insurance fraudsters in the party they have no credibility in claiming they wish to tackle the problem.
    Who do you believe can address the insurance and compo culture if not the government?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,329 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Grand so, I don't need your permission to claim there is a lack of action by the government based on the fact it has insurance fraudsters serving in the same government. The only ones that can do anything is the government what part of that causes you confusion?

    As I said there is already a thread for the Fine Gael stuff. And just so you know I despise Fine Gael.
    This is much bigger than just Fine Gael. This is about a compo culture in this country. This is about the costs associated with legal claims in this country. This is about the fear of being labeled anything from a bigot, to a racist if you go against the person seeking to make a claim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭enricoh


    2 things

    1. Insurance companies often do not contest claims: Rather pay out and recoup from the customer. Then complain about settlements
    2. Insurance companies report next to no cases of potential insurance fraud, to AGS, because of this there is no penalty to Swing cases

    Pat mc donagh that owns supermacs said some judges are known to splash the cash with payouts. Some are nicknamed santa claus etc. If these judges are getting his case they try to settle before court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,911 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    100% agreed.

    We had a claim made against us in my work... Competely spurious as the issue was directly caused by the claimant themselves.... We vociferously argued this with the insurance company who told us that they were going to pay out and if we wanted to challenge it in court they would refuse to indemnify us.

    They paid out meekly.

    Raised our PI insurance to such a level that we had the total amount of the claim paid back to then within 3 years...

    Insurance is the only industry you cannot make a loss in.

    Insurance companies go out of business due to bad gambling in their side.

    9/10 employer's liability claims are down to the stupidity of the claimant. However, in most cases the employer is unable to provide adequate training records, so there is NO DEFENCE an insurer can argue

    In most public liability claims made, you'll find the premises is either defective in some way or unnecessary hazards are in place. The claimant's stupidity is a significant factor, but not what the judge will focus on


  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭chuchuchu


    This is the courts/judges/solicitors trying to make a business out of something they shouldn't be, they do the same with divorces and endless refugee appeals. With such money at stake they are only encouraging false claims.


  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭pummice


    I wasny aware that British companies were insuring businesses in Ireland. So how come all along we couldnt ring up car insurance companies in Britain for a quote?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,911 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    pummice wrote: »
    I wasny aware that British companies were insuring businesses in Ireland. So how come all along we couldnt ring up car insurance companies in Britain for a quote?

    You do know that there is only one Irish insurance company in Ireland, FBD


Advertisement