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Indicators on Bicycle

13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    ULMarc wrote: »
    And enjoy it, Limerick's not a bad spot for the old cycle commuting.

    So far so good, would definitely echo this, no incidents so far, feel safe as well. I've just avoided dangerous spots.

    Part of my cycle is the Dock Road, out of town as far as the cement factory roundabout, and up towards South Court Hotel, this is fine in this direction, but I go an alternative route home rather than try that roundabout. You'd want a heavy boot in a car some evenings!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Grassey wrote: »
    As dangerous as driving with one hand on the steering wheel and the other holding coffee/changing gears/texting/changing radio/etc ?

    Changing gears is fine there. Texting is terrible.

    When someone is cycling their concentration is spent on maintaining balance while levels of movement all over are changing constantly. The centre of balance is moving round all the time and some people have better balance than others. For these reasons, using one hand in a car or even a motorbike doesn't even compare with doing it on a bike. Although i wouldnt recommend it in any vehicle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    A small mirror would be handy, see what's coming up behind


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    You've to take one off the bars and steer and keep youself stable with just one arm while signalling. If you hit a bump or your other hand slips you will fall.

    All can be done without any arms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    So far so good, would definitely echo this, no incidents so far, feel safe as well. I've just avoided dangerous spots.

    Part of my cycle is the Dock Road, out of town as far as the cement factory roundabout, and up towards South Court Hotel, this is fine in this direction, but I go an alternative route home rather than try that roundabout. You'd want a heavy boot in a car some evenings!

    I would imagine the O'Connell Street and Avenue, out towards the hospital be a safer route?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    YFlyer wrote: »
    I would imagine the O'Connell Street and Avenue, out towards the hospital be a safer route?

    It would but it probably adds a bit more work haha


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    YFlyer wrote: »
    I would imagine the O'Connell Street and Avenue, out towards the hospital be a safer route?

    It would probably, but there's a lot of stop starting and once you get to dooradoyle roundabout as far as Raheen it's quite busy that route also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,001 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    When someone is cycling their concentration is spent on maintaining balance while levels of movement all over are changing constantly. The centre of balance is moving round all the time and some people have better balance than others. For these reasons, using one hand in a car or even a motorbike doesn't even compare with doing it on a bike. Although i wouldnt recommend it in any vehicle.
    That's complete nonsense.

    The centre of balance does not move around while cycling. Your legs are going around in a perfect counterbalanced circle.

    Controlling a bicycle is a semi-conscious activity for all but the most beginnery beginner.

    I was cycling home one evening a few years ago with my hands lightly on the hoods and hit a massive pothole I didn't see coming. In a fraction of a second it bounced my hands off the tops, I looked down and saw my hands holding the drops with a perfect grip. This required my brain to effectively catch a set of rapidly rising bars I wasn't looking at, in almost complete darkness.

    I have completely unexceptional balance and terrible hand-eye coordination, as anyone who has has seen me attempt to play sport can attest.

    The human brain is mostly not thinking about what the body is doing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Lumen wrote: »
    That's complete nonsense.

    The centre of balance does not move around while cycling. Your legs are going around in a perfect counterbalanced circle.

    Controlling a bicycle is a semi-conscious activity for all but the most beginnery beginner.

    I was cycling home one evening a few years ago with my hands lightly on the hoods and hit a massive pothole I didn't see coming. In a fraction of a second it bounced my hands off the tops, I looked down and saw my hands holding the drops with a perfect grip. This required my brain to effectively catch a set of rapidly rising bars I wasn't looking at, in almost complete darkness.

    I have completely unexceptional balance and terrible hand-eye coordination, as anyone who has has seen me attempt to play sport can attest.

    The human brain is mostly not thinking about what the body is doing.

    I think it is moving around, albeit slightly, same happens for a tightrope walker. I can cycle over speed bumps with no hands easily but I would be nervous if I had one hand out to indicate left and had to deal with a sudden hazard.

    Imagine braking hard with only one hand on the bars while turning for example. You could easily mess it up. An older relative hit a kerb with both hands on the bars, fell of and broke her arm. Imagine her cycling with one arm signalling. People are different.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    my 2c - balance comes with practice. someone not used to cycling will of course feel far less steady with one hand off the bars. it's a question of getting used to it.
    i remember a few years ago, after nearly 10 years off the bike, i was disappointed at how bad i was at going hands free. now it's a piece of piss.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭flatface


    I much prefer to indicate with road position than with my hands. Hands rely on someone yielding but position takes control of the situation. Specially at night.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    I think it is moving around, albeit slightly, same happens for a tightrope walker. I can cycle over speed bumps with no hands easily but I would be nervous if I had one hand out to indicate left and had to deal with a sudden hazard.

    Imagine braking hard with only one hand on the bars while turning for example. You could easily mess it up. An older relative hit a kerb with both hands on the bars, fell of and broke her arm. Imagine her cycling with one arm signalling. People are different.

    It takes milliseconds for your brain to override your decision to indicate and reach back to the bar. You won't have actually thought about it in a conscious way. I have hit loads of bumps etc with no hands on the bars and before you realise, and it is actually difficult to resist, your hands are on the bars in milliseconds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    CramCycle wrote: »
    It takes milliseconds for your brain to override your decision to indicate and reach back to the bar. You won't have actually thought about it in a conscious way. I have hit loads of bumps etc with no hands on the bars and before you realise, and it is actually difficult to resist, your hands are on the bars in milliseconds.

    Same for me. But not everybody and the point is this balance business is an extra pressure on a cyclist that motorists don't have. Easier and safer to be able to use your index finger to hit a button


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    flatface wrote: »
    I much prefer to indicate with road position than with my hands. Hands rely on someone yielding but position takes control of the situation. Specially at night.
    Not always possible if you intend turning right on a busy road with constant passing traffic. At least when an arm is extended, it displays your intention to the motorists behind and someone will usually give way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭triggermortis


    flatface wrote: »
    I much prefer to indicate with road position than with my hands. Hands rely on someone yielding but position takes control of the situation. Specially at night.

    To be honest a lot of motorists do this, with a lack of indicators and this results in no-one knowing where anyone else is going.
    The present system should work well. Cars have orange flashing lights to indicate their intentions (except for a lot of BMW's ;) ) and cyclists use arm signals. It's what each other expects to see


  • Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭flatface


    Not always possible if you intend turning right on a busy road with constant passing traffic. At least when an arm is extended, it displays your intention to the motorists behind and someone will usually give way.

    Well after saying that, I noted my commutes today and I do indicate when I need to. If there is any traffic close and I need to do something that my position does not indicate such as pulling in to stop.

    But yes, I still think the emphasis should be on position first then hands where there is no suitable space to get into position. I think this important because I see way too many inexperienced cyclists throwing out a hand and the moving out without assessing the traffic.

    Lights on hands may give a false sense of security that someone may see them and yield to you. I don’t trust that at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Every few years somebody invents a built-in signalling system, and it doesn't sell. And then someone invents a backpack with signalling lights, and it doesn't sell. And, despite my personal enthusiasm, people come up with wrist/hand lights every so often, and they don't sell.

    I have to say, plain hand-signalling, with or without appended lights, seems to me a lot more effective than indicating lights that are only about 30cm apart.

    And I'm not given to categorical statements usually, but cycling with one hand for a matter of seconds is firmly in the Who-gives-a-**** end of the risk spectrum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    flatface wrote: »
    But yes, I still think the emphasis should be on position first then hands where there is no suitable space to get into position. I think this important because I see way too many inexperienced cyclists throwing out a hand and the moving out without assessing the traffic.

    Lights on hands may give a false sense of security that someone may see them and yield to you. I don’t trust that at all.

    It doesn't work this way in practice, for me at least. You signal the usual way: look, signal -- wait to see the person behind has understood -- manoeuvre.

    It's possible that if a lot of people were using wrist lights, there might be a measure of risk compensation creeping in, but I see someone with something approximating to wrist lights probably less than once a year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I assume lights for indicators on a bicycle are not legal as signals.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    beauf wrote: »
    I assume lights for indicators on a bicycle are not legal as signals.

    Hmmmm (IANAL).
    “driving” includes managing and controlling and, in relation to a bicycle or tricycle, riding, and “driver” and other cognate words shall be construed accordingly;
    So cyclists are considered "drivers" as I understand it (1963)
    23.—(1) Whenever a driver intends to slow down, stop or alter course, he shall either give a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp :

    So there we'd go to Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations which don't give any rules for "direction indicators" for cycles (they do for motorcycles) but do give general rules.

    Section 45:
    45. (1) Where a vehicle which is not required by these Regulations to be equipped with direction indicators is equipped with direction indicators, the indicators shall comply as far as practicable, having regard to the construction of the vehicle, with the requirements of article 18 of these Regulations and in particular they shall—


    (a) be fitted in one or more pairs, one indicator of each pair (to indicate a change of direction to the left) being fitted to the left of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle to which it is fitted and the other (to indicate a change of direction to the right) being fitted to the right of such axis,

    (b) be fitted so that no part of their illuminated surfaces is less than 16 inches from the ground,

    (c) be fitted at the same height and equidistant from the longitudinal axis of the vehicle,

    (d) when in operation emit a flashing, diffused light, amber in colour,

    (e) be so constructed and fitted as not to mislead other traffic or persons controlling traffic.

    So I would say, yes they'd be legally classed as such and would hold up as you having indicated. Again IANAL.

    Hand ones aren't fitted to the vehicle itself though so YMMV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    beauf wrote: »
    I assume lights for indicators on a bicycle are not legal as signals.
    That's a good point. I'm not sure if irishstatutebook.ie has any regulations about signalling for cyclists. The Rules of the Road has a section, but that's not law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Section 45 seems to be the most relevant bit. Good work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    ED E wrote: »
    Hand ones aren't fitted to the vehicle itself though so YMMV.
    I think we already has a discussion about lights attached to your person rather than the bike, and I think it was concluded that the strict rules about lighting didn't apply to the ones attached to your person. (E.g. only amber for lights pointing to the side.)


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,408 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    I saw someone yesterday that had indicators on their helmet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    antodeco wrote: »
    I saw someone yesterday that had indicators on their helmet!

    Discussed above, becoming more common.

    The lack of separation makes them pretty useless at range IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ED E wrote: »
    Discussed above, becoming more common.

    The lack of separation makes them pretty useless at range IMO.

    Especially at distance at night it's just a flashing light.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I also think, based on the quoted Irish Statute Book bit above, the helmet indicator lights wouldn't replace the need for a hand signal, as the vehicle isn't equipped with a signalling device: that is, the indicating device isn't attached to the vehicle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    All hail ED E for providing citation to support his argument on an internet forum. We need more people like this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    All hail ED E for providing citation to support his argument on an internet forum. We need more people like this.
    I think if irishstatutebook.com monitor their traffic, they get a surprising number of hits from forum 410. One of the many things I like about here is that a lot of people do adduce evidence.


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