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Where are the conservatives in Ireland?

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  • Options
    #62
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    briany wrote: »
    It's interesting that you're having a go at those naive lefties. That really sums the whole thing up. I could just as well argue that so much of what we might call undesirable immigration as being a product of neo-liberal economics, led by the captains of industry who love the fact that plenty will come to the west to do menial work for next to no money.

    But, shur, let's carry on with the right blaming the left, and the left blaming the right, while the money men carry on laughing their heads off at the lot of us.

    That is a valid point. But if the left are in favour of immigration and they are the majority of the population who in turn vote in pro immigration parties then why wouldn't people on the right blame the left


  • Options
    #63
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,016 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Do you think Islam is compatible with liberal progressive Ireland?

    You and others keep going back to sure that sounds like the Catholic church years ago.
    Was that a good thing ? Is that why you say it?

    The religion? No. The practicioners? Depends on what level of practice.

    Hate, discrimination and intolerance are **** off and take their catholic, muslim, athiest, whatever practicioners with them.
    Blueshoe wrote: »
    An do you think that they were great times. Let's pretend we are progressive yet invite in people with beliefs from the dark ages.

    I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility.
    We can't all get along because we are not the same in views, religious beliefs, culture, history and attitude.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1122649/isis-news-latest-terror-france-jihadist-police-elysee-palace

    Oh look another one

    No, you think extreme left policies are nice welcoming and so on. The idea that very few left-leaning people actually hold said policies isn't something you can get your head around.

    It's like dealing with a classic social justice warrior: you just can NOT let labels go.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #64
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    The religion? No. The practicioners? Depends on what level of practice.

    Hate, discrimination and intolerance are **** off and take their catholic, muslim, athiest, whatever practicioners with them.



    No, you think extreme left policies are nice welcoming and so on. The idea that very few left-leaning people actually hold said policies isn't something you can get your head around.

    It's like dealing with a classic social justice warrior: you just can NOT let labels go.

    The numbers in Europe are rising and the only people I see complaining about it are those on the right ( who are now called far right because of this stance) .

    What 'policies' are you specifically refering to?


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    #65
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,016 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    The numbers in Europe are rising and the only people I see complaining about it are those on the right ( who are now called far right because of this stance) .
    Not relevant to the post I made.
    What 'policies' are you specifically refering to?

    The policies were YOU thinking of when you wrote, "I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility." If you have to ask which ones specifcily, it kind of indicates that you weren't thinking of anything when you wrote it.

    Because I know of no such policies that make people think like this other than the ones in your head.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Options
    #66
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Hmm, long standing account largely dormant which spring back to life to decry vaccinations and is now wondering about the right wing, cue new registrations giving it large. It's almost like it was coordinated.


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    #67
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Not relevant to the post I made.



    The policies were YOU thinking of when you wrote, "I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility." If you have to ask which ones specifcily, it kind of indicates that you weren't thinking of anything when you wrote it.

    Because I know of no such policies that make people think like this other than the ones in your head.

    You don't make sense. It's not a policy it's a mindset.
    We can all co exist peacefully. Everyone is nice etc


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    #68
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,615 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Do you think Islam is compatible with liberal progressive Ireland?

    You and others keep going back to sure that sounds like the Catholic church years ago.
    Was that a good thing ? Is that why you say it?

    Do you know any Muslims ?

    Do you know that there a various forms and flavours inside it .

    The same as Catholicism there's a la carte variety's.


    Yes I think people of different faiths can live beside each other perfectly fine.

    It's when these faiths are used by people who seek land power money and greed is when it becomes a problem.

    But sure you know that anyway.

    Doubt your ever spoke to , worked with or befriended people of any other faith than your own in your life.

    Sheltered.


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    #69
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,016 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    You don't make sense. It's not a policy it's a mindset.
    We can all co exist peacefully. Everyone is nice etc

    Fair enough.

    IN which case I chance my original statement to: you think extreme left mindsets are nice welcoming and so on. The idea that very few left-leaning people actually hold said mindsets isn't something you can get your head around.

    It's like dealing with a classic social justice warrior: you just can NOT let labels go.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #70
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,537 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    That is a valid point. But if the left are in favour of immigration and they are the majority of the population who in turn vote in pro immigration parties then why wouldn't people on the right blame the left

    To say the left are in favour of immigration is far too simplistic. Your problem would appear to be with (a certain section of) the left who are in favour of (uncontrolled / too loose a policy of) immigration from certain countries. I say a certain section because there are those on the left who are sceptical of immigration as well, as insularity and economic protectionism are not strict preserves of the right. So, when you narrow it down to these criteria, I'm not convinced that they exist in such a majority as to vote in, as you call them, pro-immigration parties, and I'm not convinced that so-called pro-immigration parties are voted in on that basis.


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    #71
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Hmm, long standing account largely dormant which spring back to life to decry vaccinations and is now wondering about the right wing, cue new registrations giving it large. It's almost like it was coordinated.
    Agreed.

    Also it's not conservatism the op is looking for... Its other fruitcakes.


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    #72
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    IN which case I chance my original statement to: you think extreme left mindsets are nice welcoming and so on. The idea that very few left-leaning people actually hold said mindsets isn't something you can get your head around.

    It's like dealing with a classic social justice warrior: you just can NOT let labels go.

    Very few left leaning people agree with mass immigration?
    Pull the other one.


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    #73
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    listermint wrote: »
    Do you know any Muslims ?

    Do you know that there a various forms and flavours inside it .

    The same as Catholicism there's a la carte variety's.


    Yes I think people of different faiths can live beside each other perfectly fine.

    It's when these faiths are used by people who seek land power money and greed is when it becomes a problem.

    But sure you know that anyway.

    Doubt your ever spoke to , worked with or befriended people of any other faith than your own in your life.

    Sheltered.

    It all comes down to numbers. Invite in too many types who don't want to integrate and it creates division, ghettoisation and suspicion.

    Those who do want to integrate and contribute should be welcomed IF there are jobs, infrastructure and accommodation in place. Otherwise no thanks


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    #74
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    They do not assimilate to our culture and never will. This is seen all around Europe.

    It is a to way process. How may muslims have you invited into your home then? Gone and had a cup of coffee or tea with any of them in the last week or so?


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    #75
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,016 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Very few left leaning people agree with mass immigration?
    Pull the other one.

    Have you asked them? Or have you just gone with labels?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Options
    #76
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    It is a to way process. How may muslims have you invited into your home then? Gone and had a cup of coffee or tea with any of them in the last week or so?

    I don't welcome them so it's not a two way process. But I am not allowed to have this view.

    The reason I don't welcome them is I don't think their ideology is a good fit into Ireland. Nothing personal against the individuals just not compatible


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    #77
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Have you asked them? Or have you just gone with labels?

    You have decided to run with this. The left are against mass immigration!
    Come on


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    #78
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,615 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    It all comes down to numbers. Invite in too many types who don't want to integrate and it creates division, ghettoisation and suspicion.

    Those who do want to integrate and contribute should be welcomed IF there are jobs, infrastructure and accommodation in place. Otherwise no thanks

    So you don't know any Muslims grand that's the first notch against your nonsense.

    Secondly do you know how many Muslims are in Ireland.

    Let alone Europe.


    Let's get down to brass tacks on minorities here.


  • Options
    #79
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    listermint wrote: »
    So you don't know any Muslims grand that's the first notch against your nonsense.

    Secondly do you know how many Muslims are in Ireland.

    Let alone Europe.


    Let's get down to brass tacks on minorities here.

    How is me personally knowing any Muslims relevant?

    Are you going to say that Islam is a modern religion whos followers beliefs are a good fit for a modern progressive Ireland?
    Or that Islamic extremism does not exist?
    Or Islam is pro gay and women's rights?

    Or that Muslims will integrate in Ireland even though we see division and violence throughout Europe. Ireland will be different for some reason


  • Options
    #80
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,537 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    I don't welcome them so it's not a two way process. But I am not allowed to have this view.

    The reason I don't welcome them is I don't think their ideology is a good fit into Ireland. Nothing personal against the individuals just not compatible

    It appears to me that your problem is not really with Muslims specifically, but of anyone with a conservative religious bent that clashes with the more socially liberal, secular values that most of western society currently uses.


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    #81
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    briany wrote: »
    It appears to me that your problem is not really with Muslims specifically, but of anyone with a conservative religious bent that clashes with the more socially liberal, secular values that most of western society currently uses.

    I just don't think we should invite in future possible problems and am disappointed that nowadays I can not have this view represented politically.


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    #82
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,016 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    You have decided to run with this. The left are against mass immigration!
    Come on

    So, you rely on labels then. That's that sorted out.

    Said it ages ago, saying it again: the closer you are the more logical and open-to-debate you are. As you move away from center - regardless of what direction you go in - you start to encounter angry bitter people who just to have their biases confirmed and rely on labels to do so.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #83
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    We can't all get along because we are not the same in views, religious beliefs, culture, history and attitude.

    I dont have the same views as you. Or religious beliefs. My mother is an immigrant (albeit from an EU country) .

    So it looks like one of us might have to leave the country. I'm happy enough here as things are so I vote you.


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    #84
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    I dont have the same views as you. Or religious beliefs. My mother is an immigrant (albeit from an EU country) .

    So it looks like one of us might have to leave the country. I'm happy enough here as things are so I vote you.

    You have misunderstood.


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    #85
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Renua is your man OP.
    Having said that the party probably won't last much longer, key members leaving.
    Ireland is a middle ground country, and no major party holds radical views either way, thankfully


    Edit, look up Human Dignity Alliance
    They oppose same-sex marriages and abortion so might be what you're looking for.


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    #86
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    That is a valid point. But if the left are in favour of immigration and they are the majority of the population who in turn vote in pro immigration parties then why wouldn't people on the right blame the left

    What pro immigration parties?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #87
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    So, you rely on labels then. That's that sorted out.

    Said it ages ago, saying it again: the closer you are the more logical and open-to-debate you are. As you move away from center - regardless of what direction you go in - you start to encounter angry bitter people who just to have their biases confirmed and rely on labels to do so.

    I wouldn't say I'm angry or bitter about it to be honest. More disappointed than anything but as an individual who is hugely outnumbered by voters with a differing opinion I can't see a change of course coming any time soon. It doesn't affect my life either way but in years to come who's to say.
    I can't see the sense in people being proud about a modern Ireland yet inviting in with open arms a culture who kill gay people and treat women as dirt

    Makes no sense to me to be honest


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    #88
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    You have decided to run with this. The left are against mass immigration!
    Come on

    You know "The left" are not a homogenous group who agree on everything? We don't have meetings to decide what we think about every issue.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #89
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Brian? wrote: »
    What pro immigration parties?

    The European parliament as a whole is liberal and pro immigration. We take our orders from them in regards to quotas etc. Our government does not resist this therefore is pro immigration.
    Hungary or Poland would be anti immigration governments and we all see the grief the Hungarian government gets.


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    #90
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Brian? wrote: »
    You know "The left" are not a homogenous group who agree on everything? We don't have meetings to decide what we think about every issue.

    In general. It's a mindset.
    Iv yet to see an anti immigration left wing demonstration.
    It would be an oxymoron


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    #91
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    I wouldn't say I'm angry or bitter about it to be honest. More disappointed than anything but as an individual who is hugely outnumbered by voters with a differing opinion I can't see a change of course coming any time soon. It doesn't affect my life either way but in years to come who's to say.
    I can't see the sense in people being proud about a modern Ireland yet inviting in with open arms a culture who kill gay people and treat women as dirt

    Makes no sense to me to be honest

    Ireland is not inviting any particular culture in. In fact the Irish immigration laws are pretty tough compared to a lot of places. I think this is the route of your dissatisfaction, you see more Muslims and assume we've somehow opened our borders. We haven't.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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