General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

blanch152 · 31-05-2019 12:03pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I wouldn't say toxic. They did terrible. Toxic would be FF after the IMF came or Maria Bailey after her claim became public. Not being as popular as you'd like doesn't make you toxic.
If FG can partner with FF after what they did and who they are, SF shouldn't be a problem for FF. In fact it will give FF more pull on the junior SF.

You are comparing the IMF arriving in the country as being on a par with Maria Bailey and a stupid compensation claim?

In my opinion, your post has lost all perspective. If the only thing that is making news about a bad government is that one of its backbench TDs made a compensation claim, then we really are short of bad news about a government.

McMurphy · 31-05-2019 1:17pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You are comparing the IMF arriving in the country as being on a par with Maria Bailey and a stupid compensation claim?

In my opinion, your post has lost all perspective. If the only thing that is making news about a bad government is that one of its backbench TDs made a compensation claim, then we really are short of bad news about a government.

Lol. You spelt "dodgy" wrong.

There's a whole lot more to this story than just some TD taking a claim, and you know it.

Claims that a poster lost all perspective?

Gas.

James Brown · 31-05-2019 1:43pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You are comparing the IMF arriving in the country as being on a par with Maria Bailey and a stupid compensation claim?

In my opinion, your post has lost all perspective. If the only thing that is making news about a bad government is that one of its backbench TDs made a compensation claim, then we really are short of bad news about a government.

I've not seen many who pose a question and their own answer and then get so heated about it.
It's tiresome having to explain to you what I guess you likely already know; I was giving examples of politically toxic.

While we're analysing each other, the various crises are still ongoing and still worsening. That story has sailed. FG have made a disaster worse and continue to do so and poor Eoghan Murphy is disappointed, great help to all concerned.
On Bailey, it's current. I would have thought anyone would be interested in it and if not, I don't see why a supporter of another party, the Greens(?), forgive me if I'm wrong, seems to want to dismiss it?
Making up a claim that I'm comparing Bailey or swing-gate to the IMF is ludicrous Blanch and quite frankly it smacks of desperation.

Chips Lovell · 31-05-2019 1:49pm

Mod Note

@blanch152, Matt Barrett and Johnny Dogs.

Cut out the bickering. If keep taking potshots at each other, we'll ban you all.

James Brown · 31-05-2019 1:57pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I still get the impression from the independent that this story, is ultimately going to lead towards a 2 for 1 (maybe more) ending.

Madigan should be 'candid' on swing fall case - Martin

I think Varadkar's inquiry will go the way of previous, he'll hope it dies down and she'll be kept off side for a while. There's nothing like a toothless inquiry or tribunal to kill off a troublesome story. You're seen to do something and can point to it if pressed.

McMurphy · 01-06-2019 8:29am

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think Varadkar's inquiry will go the way of previous, he'll hope it dies down and she'll be kept off side for a while. There's nothing like a toothless inquiry or tribunal to kill off a troublesome story. You're seen to do something and can point to it if pressed.

Oh wait, there's more.

Apparently Leo is in receipt of a letter accompanying the initial cheque for €600 (the Dean initially offered Bailey) that she (Bailey) sent back to them.

The press are reporting that despite Bailey saying she was only after medical costs, the hotel responded by saying they'd pay certified costs (this was six months after the incident) Bailey returned the cheque issued by the hotel, and demanded a substantial sum of money instead, citing "for what would be the likely cost of treatment into the future" lol.

And despite her saying in the interview that she was only wanting to recoup certified medical expenses, the letter the Taosieach has been briefed on, demanded compensation for personal injury, loss, damage and inconvenience.

Kennedy's soon to speak with Madigan to establish if or how far her involvement in the whole thing goes.

It would certainly appear that Bailey was indulging in a bit of gouging.

Bad reflection. Very bad.

If Madigan is behind her actions, then there's two peas in a pod.

Two birds, one stone and all that.

McMurphy · 03-06-2019 11:29am

I see the indo have an article today featuring Pat McDonagh (he of Supermacs) and the knock on effects insurance/claims have on businesses.

The article references a couple of now withdrawn claims against the company,

Mr McDonagh's comments follow the recent withdrawal of a claim against the popular fast-food outlet.

A woman claimed she allegedly found a sharp object in her food, but dropped a personal injuries case against Supermac's after footage emerged of her dining in a hotel.

Supermac's had denied all liability and refused to settle the case. Her solicitors were contacted for comment.

Mr McDonagh said business owners were constantly up against it and called on the Government to show some "political will" to intervene.

"It's not a fair system and it's not a system you can rely on," he said.

Mr McDonagh admits there are genuine injuries - but he believes exaggerated claims are closing businesses down and lead to higher premiums.

It's fairly reminiscent of the Bailey case, as in the Dean also refused to accept liability, and refused to settle the case, opting to fight it instead.

You'd have to wonder if the indo has some info on the CCTV footage of that night, as they also make reference to how footage was pivotal in their case, even showing a clip of a guy staging a fall (obviously GDRP doesn't affect the indo or Supermacs)

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/no-consistency-no-justice-in-the-system-says-supermacs-boss-38173154.html

One wonders if we'll soon be gifted similar CCTV of an otherwise previously unknown TD and God knows who else in the swing gate incident?

James Brown · 03-06-2019 2:00pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I see the indo have an article today featuring Pat McDonagh (he of Supermacs) and the knock on effects insurance/claims have on businesses.

The article references a couple of now withdrawn claims against the company,

It's fairly reminiscent of the Bailey case, as in the Dean also refused to accept liability, and refused to settle the case, opting to fight it instead.

You'd have to wonder if the indo has some info on the CCTV footage of that night, as they also make reference to how footage was pivotal in their case, even showing a clip of a guy staging a fall (obviously GDRP doesn't affect the indo or Supermacs)

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/no-consistency-no-justice-in-the-system-says-supermacs-boss-38173154.html

One wonders if we'll soon be gifted similar CCTV of an otherwise previously unknown TD and God knows who else in the swing gate incident?

They do seem to be keeping the pilot light on. I don't think Leo will be let sweep this one under the rug.

McMurphy · 04-06-2019 1:44pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They do seem to be keeping the pilot light on. I don't think Leo will be let sweep this one under the rug.

Hard one to call Matt - the press seem to be suggesting that whatever the internal report comes up with, ie who was present on the night and possibly witnessed the whole thing - what role Madigan played in the claim, etc etc, will be kept under wraps, they won't be publishing the findings of the report publicly.

If true, same old same old.

The CCTV footage will be very telling if it sees the light of day on the web. Youd have to wonder if the indo will replicate that article they did with supermacs, and include the CCTV footage like they did with that other shyster staging his fall.

James Brown · 04-06-2019 2:04pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Hard one to call Matt - the press seem to be suggesting that whatever the internal report comes up with, ie who was present on the night and possibly witnessed the whole thing - what role Madigan played in the claim, etc etc, will be kept under wraps, they won't be publishing the findings of the report publicly.

If true, same old same old.

The CCTV footage will be very telling if it sees the light of day on the web. Youd have to wonder if the indo will replicate that article they did with supermacs, and include the CCTV footage like they did with that other shyster staging his fall.

TBF I never expected Varadkar to come out with any details. He'll sell it as an internal matter and keep it hid. However much dirt might come out of it there certainly isn't anything redeeming I'd warrant.
If the Indo has anything solid I'd say we're talking another week or so before it's released as Varadkar will let this die.

Cookie_Monster · 04-06-2019 11:39pm

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12237261
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/incoming-central-bank-chief-may-face-action-from-nz-watchdog-1.3912272

Gabriel Makhlouf referred to the NZ police now.

James Brown · 13-06-2019 2:19pm

I think Ireland is well placed to become a beacon of environmentalism. I understand many nations buy carbon credits but if we can be the poster boys and girls for the IMF and 'take one for the team' surely we can work harder and possibly more cost effectively in the long term when it comes to the environment? A high carbon tax and paying for plastic bags is a very cowboy approach IMO.

Ireland has spent €86.8m on carbon credits to meet emissions targets
Seán Fleming said it is "horrific" that €86.8m of Irish taxpayers' money has been spent purchasing carbon credits from other countries and labelled it "gross hypocrisy".

It has also emerged this morning that Ireland could have to pay €60m to "buy our way out of pretending" we are meeting renewable energy targets.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0613/1055135-carbon-credits/

I wonder will it be the usual, used by FF to look oppositiony?
When I find out which SF/PBP lead council is behind this I'm going to give them the business.

markodaly · 13-06-2019 2:33pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

When I find out which SF/PBP lead council is behind this I'm going to give them the business.

You mean the parties fully against any carbon tax?

Idbatterim · 13-06-2019 2:41pm

So we all agree ff fg are pretty much the same thing. I propose simply swapping them out for one another until they learn problems here need addressing , not endless inaction. If they think simply not sinking the economy is good enough. Think again , imagine that fraud being removed as tAoiseach with a booming economy , down to his own outrageous failure. It will be priceless to see!

blanch152 · 13-06-2019 3:16pm

markodaly wrote: »

You mean the parties fully against any carbon tax?

How any party can oppose a carbon tax, given the findings regarding our slow progress on climate change, is mind-boggling.

James Brown · 13-06-2019 3:40pm

blanch152 wrote: »

How any party can oppose a carbon tax, given the findings regarding our slow progress on climate change, is mind-boggling.

Sure we can just buy more credits FG style. Sky's the limit ironically.

blanch152 · 13-06-2019 4:13pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Sure we can just buy more credits FG style. Sky's the limit ironically.

Well, let us see.

https://www.thejournal.ie/carbon-tax-2-4563817-Mar2019/

The party you want to see in government - Fianna Fail - wanted "to remove a fixed recommendation on the level of carbon tax people will pay in the years ahead." Is your idea of them keeping Fine Gael in check that they will stop the introduction of a carbon tax.

They were not the only ones opposing it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/oireachtas-support-for-increased-carbon-taxes-ill-judged-1.3861346

People Before Profit have already nailed their colours to the mast. Expect to see another surge of protest politics, where they are against everything.

As always, it is not clear where Sinn Fein stand on this:

https://greennews.ie/sinn-fein-opposes-carbon-tax-rise-in-climate-action-report/

"Sinn Féin has said that the party will dissent from any carbon tax recommendations included in a much-awaited report from the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action."

In the end, however, they didn't dissent. A strange one. Buried in their position is a statement that "big polluters pay their fair share". Another variation on the theme that someone else should pay.

James Brown · 13-06-2019 4:28pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, let us see.

https://www.thejournal.ie/carbon-tax-2-4563817-Mar2019/

The party you want to see in government - Fianna Fail - wanted "to remove a fixed recommendation on the level of carbon tax people will pay in the years ahead." Is your idea of them keeping Fine Gael in check that they will stop the introduction of a carbon tax.

They were not the only ones opposing it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/oireachtas-support-for-increased-carbon-taxes-ill-judged-1.3861346

People Before Profit have already nailed their colours to the mast. Expect to see another surge of protest politics, where they are against everything.

As always, it is not clear where Sinn Fein stand on this:

https://greennews.ie/sinn-fein-opposes-carbon-tax-rise-in-climate-action-report/

"Sinn Féin has said that the party will dissent from any carbon tax recommendations included in a much-awaited report from the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action."

In the end, however, they didn't dissent. A strange one. Buried in their position is a statement that "big polluters pay their fair share". Another variation on the theme that someone else should pay.

Sorry I what now?
Seriously Blanch you are taking the mick with this. Can you simply speak on a topic without making it a Premier league match? FG are in government, propped up by FF, get use to people commenting on it.
FF are a bad 'opposition' party. I do not for one second believe my thoughts on this slipped by you.
Have you no interest is the blue elephant in the room? Is there any point in engaging on a news item relating to FG policy if you won't discuss FG's part in it?
As a person with strong views for environmental issues and a Green party supporter, where do you think FG, the government, should change tack, you don't even have to criticise them Blanch, but if you don't want to discuss it, opting for digs at everyone bar FG, I don't see the point in you wasting both our time.

blanch152 · 13-06-2019 5:28pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Sorry I what now?
Seriously Blanch you are taking the mick with this. Can you simply speak on a topic without making it a Premier league match? FG are in government, propped up by FF, get use to people commenting on it.
FF are a bad 'opposition' party. I do not for one second believe my thoughts on this slipped by you.
Have you no interest is the blue elephant in the room? Is there any point in engaging on a news item relating to FG policy if you won't discuss FG's part in it?
As a person with strong views for environmental issues and a Green party supporter, where do you think FG, the government, should change tack, you don't even have to criticise them Blanch, but if you don't want to discuss it, opting for digs at everyone bar FG, I don't see the point in you wasting both our time.

I believe in increasing carbon taxes, this government have been too slow to act on this issue. I am on record several times criticising this government over their record on climate issues.

James Brown · 13-06-2019 5:58pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I believe in increasing carbon taxes, this government have been too slow to act on this issue. I am on record several times criticising this government over their record on climate issues.

That's great. Depends on how they spend the money for me. I can't see it as a disincentive but more a cost of doing business that will be passed to the public. Beyond FG, I'd like to see a real push on solar and wind. There's a lot of room to push for it. Also might be an idea to try get the likes of Musk and that crowd to set up a facility here. We were trying to push ourselves as an educated knowledge based workforce, be nice to see what incentives we could muster in that regard towards a greener economy.

blanch152 · 13-06-2019 6:06pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's great. Depends on how they spend the money for me. I can't see it as a disincentive but more a cost of doing business that will be passed to the public. Beyond FG, I'd like to see a real push on solar and wind. There's a lot of room to push for it. Also might be an idea to try get the likes of Musk and that crowd to set up a facility here. We were trying to push ourselves as an educated knowledge based workforce, be nice to see what incentives we could muster in that regard towards a greener economy.

and those are the reasons why I vote Green.

McMurphy · 15-06-2019 8:16am

What's the story on the report issued by leo into the (what appears from here at present) extremely dodgy insurance claim by Maria Bailey?

Following the revelations from both the press, and Maria's carcrash interview with SOR, the lack of clarity on it, and further - lack of action against Maria (removal of whip for example) leads me to assume that the report doesn't exonerate her - hence why it hasn't been finished yet (so FG say)

Further, I also assume that the report isn't favourable towards Josepha Madigan, and her involvement in the whole thing - this would possibly explain the lack of the report being finished (if you're gullible enough to believe that) and Maria Bailey being left in situ - as one would bring the other with them.

Leo isn't making the miscalculation of believing this will just go away is he?

McMurphy · 16-06-2019 10:24am

This will be very unwelcome news for Leo.

Opinion poll suggests five-point lead for Fianna F

Still, will take the focus of his lack of action on Maria Bailey I suppose.

is_that_so · 16-06-2019 10:26am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

This will be very unwelcome news for Leo.

Opinion poll suggests five-point lead for Fianna F

Still, will take the focus of his lack of action on Maria Bailey I suppose.

One party up, one party down, one party going nowhere. Only surprise is the alleged level of Green support. None of these numbers matter anyway until an election is called.

McMurphy · 16-06-2019 10:34am

is_that_so wrote: »

One party up, one party down, one party going nowhere. Only surprise is the alleged level of Green support. None of these numbers matter anyway until an election is called.

The bigger picture being, after the events of 2010/11 FG have - in only a few years made FF a viable option to govern the country.

is_that_so · 16-06-2019 10:36am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The bigger picture being, after the events of 2010/11 FG have - in only a few years made FF a viable option to govern the country.

It'll be one or the other and the other will probably enter into a support deal.

eire4 · 16-06-2019 10:25pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's great. Depends on how they spend the money for me. I can't see it as a disincentive but more a cost of doing business that will be passed to the public. Beyond FG, I'd like to see a real push on solar and wind. There's a lot of room to push for it. Also might be an idea to try get the likes of Musk and that crowd to set up a facility here. We were trying to push ourselves as an educated knowledge based workforce, be nice to see what incentives we could muster in that regard towards a greener economy.

Very much in agreement with you on solar and wind. We really need a concerted push to get off fossil fuels and onto renewal energy. Our record on climate as a country is very poor right now and beyond that we are going to get hurt very badly as a result economically if we do not start to get serious about moving to an energy policy that is geared towards getting us onto renewables 100% as soon as possible.

blanch152 · 16-06-2019 10:48pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The bigger picture being, after the events of 2010/11 FG have - in only a few years made FF a viable option to govern the country.

You, like so many others, have the wrong end of the stick here.

It says something about the opposition parties that FF are seen as the only alternative to FG.

The opinion poll you reference has the Greens within the margin of error of being the third largest party. That says two things, firstly the failure of FG on environmental issues, and secondly, the abysmal performance of the opposition parties in general.

Look at the poll. Sinn Fein are in freefall (in line with my predictions), the Social Democrats have made minimal impact, and Solidarity are within the margin of error of zero. Labour back up to 5% have a long way to go. It says something that none of those parties have been able to be coherent enough to take votes from the independents.

The true bigger picture is that with the country rejecting the government at this point in the election cycle, as they always do, it is dreadful that there is nowhere else but FF.

blanch152 · 16-06-2019 10:54pm

eire4 wrote: »

Very much in agreement with you on solar and wind. We really need a concerted push to get off fossil fuels and onto renewal energy. Our record on climate as a country is very poor right now and beyond that we are going to get hurt very badly as a result economically if we do not start to get serious about moving to an energy policy that is geared towards getting us onto renewables 100% as soon as possible.

100% agree, and the car crash of a thread on Green issues here only shows how far we have to go before people realise that things have to change.

Loafing Oaf · 17-06-2019 12:25pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You, like so many others, have the wrong end of the stick here.

It says something about the opposition parties that FF are seen as the only alternative to FG.
The true bigger picture is that with the country rejecting the government at this point in the election cycle, as they always do, it is dreadful that there is nowhere else but FF.

Isn't that ultimately the responsibility of the electorate? If you don't like any of the options on the political menu, you need to be getting into the kitchen and rustling something up yourself. I remember a discussion on Prime Time or somewhere about why there was no political party representing the 49.999% of the electorate who voted no in the divorce referendum. One political scientist just shrugged and said "That's up to the voters themselves."

General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

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